A simple tailor [Archive] - Wizards Community

A simple tailor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
altpersona
01-25-07, 04:05 PM our last game ended with a call for new characters...

my dm isnt keen on optimizations...

there has also been a call for more rp and less A-team.

so , 2x point buy (i might roll) core + limited UA only.

next im thinking of a simple tailor... human or elf Ex_aristocrate1/expert_x

i might consider a bard dip, but i dont think so.

my only solid goal is high diplomacy and a profesion (tailor) after that its all up for grabs...

so, any ideas?
GaffeR
01-25-07, 04:14 PM Maybe try the Char Dev boards. The thought of someone actually playing NPC classes makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
PhoenixInferno
01-25-07, 04:42 PM Spymaster - no one would suspect the tailor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garak), with a checkered past.
altpersona
01-25-07, 04:56 PM so far, its lvl 1 aristocrat, 20 skill points, on diplomancy and bluff related skills... and profession tailor, negotiator feat and skill focus diplomacy, this puts my base diplomacy at 9 and my sense motive at 6.

lvl 2 is expert 1, this will put my diplomacy to 16 i think, and bluff / imtimidate / sense and profession all go up abit.

lvl 3 is a new feat, i assume itt will be persuasive, after this as afar as i can tell all new feats will be skill focus's, unless i can get a non core feat...

it dosnt look like i will be turning the hostile demon into a zealous ally any time soon...
Aegeu
01-25-07, 06:13 PM Please please don't take NPC classes unless you're forced to. Just take bard. They can do everything an aristocrat can and more. If you want a flavorful cahracter, fine, but don't commit suicide to do so.
altpersona
01-25-07, 08:13 PM It might be suicide, but it should be a slow death....

this new campaign is ubber nothing... no sorcs, maybe wiz as a prc. paladin is prc... i think even cleric is going to be gutted. like dragonlance cleric i think.

iv ask about traits and flaws from UA, which is at least partially drawn from... and im not sure about them... if i get the go adead, i plan on taking noncombative, -2 attack....

with great amounts of luck i will be able to stay out of combat, and have brutes around when i cant avoid it all together.
FntsyWlkr
01-26-07, 01:36 PM I side with everyone else, no NPC classes.

I think a street urchin, (rogue) or fighter! I always feel that the fighter is a generic "adventurer."
... ok ok ... this may be a tangent ...but bear with me ... you want Role Playing? ...

A BARBARIAN TAILOR!! RAGE? FRENZY?
ROFLMAO
... that could be so much fun!
altpersona
01-26-07, 03:56 PM thats great, barbarian tailor.

the idea here is that my dm dosnt like optimized stuff. which i take to mean that the base class's are too powerfull.

so i deoptimize the stuff he feels is valuable. and optimize the rest,

it seems without alot of magic items im not going to be able to reach the "hostile to helpfull" on taking 10, but i should get em to friendly. and i wont be a bard. just, personable...

maybe there is no optimizations left in Core/UA for a diplomacy build... without spells and bard...
GaffeR
01-26-07, 04:16 PM maybe there is no optimizations left in Core/UA for a diplomacy build... without spells and bard...
Half-elf, 18 starting cha, max ranks in diplo, skill synergies, and a +x competency item. That's about it AFAIK.

Edit: fnord has more ideas.
fnord
01-26-07, 04:23 PM Look, if you don't want to be optimized, we really have no purpose.

Therefore, I'm going to assume that you want to optimize the skills Diplomacy, Profession: Tailor, and Craft: Clothier, using core +UA and NPC classes only, at least to start.

I'd recommend not taking more than 1 level of Aristocrat, and probably not even that. Certainly don't take it first, it doesn't have craft or profession as class skills.

To go all out diplomacy, I recommend Intermediate Devil Bloodline Half-Elf Expert 11/Bloodline 3/Half-Elf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3

Starting with 16 Charisma and putting all ability boosts there, you end up with 26 Charisma.

Diplomacy +47
23 ranks +2 Bloodline +8 Cha +3 Race/Paragon +6 Synergy +3 Skill Focus +2 Negotiator

Even rushed, you can make a Hostile person Friendly automatically, or Helpful if your lucky; If he's only unfriendly, you have a very good chance of getting helpful.

If you're not rushed, you can almost always turn Hostile to Helpful, and everyone one else automatically.

Someone who starts out helpful should end up fanatic, to boot.

And this is without items, you assuming they're available, you should be able to eke out another +7-12 from Charisma Boosters, Circlet of Persuasion, and Stone of Good Luck.

Edit: Forgot about a MW diplomacy item, which should add another +2. Makes Rushed Unfriendly->Helpful automatic, Hostile->Helpful Automatic, Helpful->Fanatic Automatic, and gives a decent chance for Friendly->Fanatic.
FeceMan
01-26-07, 04:25 PM thats great, barbarian tailor.

the idea here is that my dm dosnt like optimized stuff. which i take to mean that the base class's are too powerfull.

so i deoptimize the stuff he feels is valuable. and optimize the rest,

it seems without alot of magic items im not going to be able to reach the "hostile to helpfull" on taking 10, but i should get em to friendly. and i wont be a bard. just, personable...

maybe there is no optimizations left in Core/UA for a diplomacy build... without spells and bard...
Your DM is a joke.
altpersona
01-26-07, 04:39 PM Look, if you don't want to be optimized, we really have no purpose.

Therefore, I'm going to assume that you want to optimize the skills Diplomacy, Profession: Tailor, and Craft: Clothier, using core +UA and NPC classes only, at least to start.

I'd recommend not taking more than 1 level of Aristocrat, and probably not even that. Certainly don't take it first, it doesn't have craft or profession as class skills.

To go all out diplomacy, I recommend Intermediate Devil Bloodline Half-Elf Expert 11/Bloodline 3/Half-Elf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3

Starting with 16 Charisma and putting all ability boosts there, you end up with 26 Charisma.

Diplomacy +47
23 ranks +2 Bloodline +8 Cha +3 Race/Paragon +6 Synergy +3 Skill Focus +2 Negotiator

Even rushed, you can make a Hostile person Friendly automatically, or Helpful if your lucky; If he's only unfriendly, you have a very good chance of getting helpful.

If you're not rushed, you can almost always turn Hostile to Helpful, and everyone one else automatically.

Someone who starts out helpful should end up fanatic, to boot.

And this is without items, you assuming they're available, you should be able to eke out another +7-12 from Charisma Boosters, Circlet of Persuasion, and Stone of Good Luck.

this would drive the dm nuts. :)

i need to find stuff on +x competency items...

i do intend to take aristocrat at lvl 1, if i can ill add human paragon too it, but i dont know if that will fly.

the npc reaction charts iv seen dont have fanatic on them, where is that?
Nifft
01-26-07, 05:44 PM The Tailor of FLESH:

Human Paragon 1 / Transmuter 3 / Human paragon +2 / Transmuter +2 / Fleshwarper 10

"Just a little knitting..."

Starts out innocently enough... :)

Cheers, -- N

EDIT: Yeah, Fleshwarper isn't on the book list, but it's such a good "tailor" class. Encourage your DM to think of wizardry or sorcery as what professionals use in a magical world.
altpersona
01-26-07, 05:48 PM i really like that actually, but not for the next round...
BalthazarDArgent
01-26-07, 05:50 PM Oh I can't stand DMs who hide behind the mantra "more roleplaying" as a way to do less game prep. I'm in an Eberron game with super-max (not Gestalt) characters and the roleplaying is among the finest we have ever had. This will be the same guy who asks for these characters then put you through a dungeon crawl. Blech. Find a new DM, not a new character concept.
jameswilliamogle
01-26-07, 06:19 PM Oh I can't stand DMs who hide behind the mantra "more roleplaying" as a way to do less game prep. I'm in an Eberron game with super-max (not Gestalt) characters and the roleplaying is among the finest we have ever had. This will be the same guy who asks for these characters then put you through a dungeon crawl. Blech. Find a new DM, not a new character concept.here here!!! and harumphs all around... harumph, harumph...
altpersona
01-26-07, 08:15 PM im always game for a challenge...

hopefully the paragon stuff will fly, its fairly close to taking a creature hit die equivelents...
Alennox
01-26-07, 08:34 PM The title "a simple tailor" immediately made me think Garak from DS9.

Why not add in a little something-something to his past? Sure, he's a tailor now. Now that he's been kicked out of his homeland, where he was being groomed to be the new head of Intelligence. That way, you are living as a simple tailor, but can have an interesting past, that might give you a reason to grab some skills you could find a use for in the future and in adventuring aside from diplomacy

If you were taking base classes, I'd urge rogue, as they are the skill monkeys, but if your DM thinks those rogues are just crazy-powerful (holding back giving extensive criticism of your DM, here, BTW) expert probably would be the NPC class for it.

Use the story to allow to to "optimize" under your DM's radar. Add some espionage-y skills that you can use in the world, and/or dungeon. Just an idea. Discard at your leisure.

Alennox
altpersona
01-26-07, 08:54 PM thats generaly whats going on,

the lvl of aristocrat is for back story and starting money, i typically think of it as Ex aristocrat , followed by expert.

if the dm agrees to let me use paragons, and a drag mag feat, noble born. then ill drop the aristocrat and just do expert and paragons. maybe half elf and human paragons... expert and human paragon are very similar, with paragon being much better... but only 3lvls...

while im maxing the diplomacy, im also maxing craft , bluff , sense motive, knowledge nobility, and profession... probably some more to add...

after about 6th lvl i will be out of productive feats, and will have to resort to more traditional things...

unless i take skill focus in all those skills.. but really, the +3 isnt that big of a differnce.

what i really need is a bigger skill point pool. im expecting 6 to 8 skill points per lvl after 1st and those are going to run thin when spread over 4 - 10 skills..
DarthDave
01-26-07, 10:08 PM Consider getting Craft (Taxidermy) to 6 ranks, and netting the Trophey Collecter feat from PHB2. It grants some decent intimidation and willpower to you after making some nifty pelts/caps/etc. as trophies from your foes.
altpersona
01-26-07, 11:56 PM craft taxidermy, thats added to the list. everyone needs a hobby...

i dont know if i can get the feat ok'd but its worth a shot. thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
altpersona 01-25-07, 04:05 PM	our last game ended with a call for new characters... my dm isnt keen on optimizations... there has also been a call for more rp and less A-team. so , 2x point buy (i might roll) core + limited UA only. next im thinking of a simple tailor... human or elf Ex_aristocrate1/expert_x i might consider a bard dip, but i dont think so. my only solid goal is high diplomacy and a profesion (tailor) after that its all up for grabs... so, any ideas?
GaffeR 01-25-07, 04:14 PM	Maybe try the Char Dev boards. The thought of someone actually playing NPC classes makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
PhoenixInferno 01-25-07, 04:42 PM	Spymaster - no one would suspect the tailor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garak), with a checkered past.
altpersona 01-25-07, 04:56 PM	so far, its lvl 1 aristocrat, 20 skill points, on diplomancy and bluff related skills... and profession tailor, negotiator feat and skill focus diplomacy, this puts my base diplomacy at 9 and my sense motive at 6. lvl 2 is expert 1, this will put my diplomacy to 16 i think, and bluff / imtimidate / sense and profession all go up abit. lvl 3 is a new feat, i assume itt will be persuasive, after this as afar as i can tell all new feats will be skill focus's, unless i can get a non core feat... it dosnt look like i will be turning the hostile demon into a zealous ally any time soon...
Aegeu 01-25-07, 06:13 PM	Please please don't take NPC classes unless you're forced to. Just take bard. They can do everything an aristocrat can and more. If you want a flavorful cahracter, fine, but don't commit suicide to do so.
altpersona 01-25-07, 08:13 PM	It might be suicide, but it should be a slow death.... this new campaign is ubber nothing... no sorcs, maybe wiz as a prc. paladin is prc... i think even cleric is going to be gutted. like dragonlance cleric i think. iv ask about traits and flaws from UA, which is at least partially drawn from... and im not sure about them... if i get the go adead, i plan on taking noncombative, -2 attack.... with great amounts of luck i will be able to stay out of combat, and have brutes around when i cant avoid it all together.
FntsyWlkr 01-26-07, 01:36 PM	I side with everyone else, no NPC classes. I think a street urchin, (rogue) or fighter! I always feel that the fighter is a generic "adventurer." ... ok ok ... this may be a tangent ...but bear with me ... you want Role Playing? ... A BARBARIAN TAILOR!! RAGE? FRENZY? ROFLMAO ... that could be so much fun!
altpersona 01-26-07, 03:56 PM	thats great, barbarian tailor. the idea here is that my dm dosnt like optimized stuff. which i take to mean that the base class's are too powerfull. so i deoptimize the stuff he feels is valuable. and optimize the rest, it seems without alot of magic items im not going to be able to reach the "hostile to helpfull" on taking 10, but i should get em to friendly. and i wont be a bard. just, personable... maybe there is no optimizations left in Core/UA for a diplomacy build... without spells and bard...
GaffeR 01-26-07, 04:16 PM	maybe there is no optimizations left in Core/UA for a diplomacy build... without spells and bard... Half-elf, 18 starting cha, max ranks in diplo, skill synergies, and a +x competency item. That's about it AFAIK. Edit: fnord has more ideas.
fnord 01-26-07, 04:23 PM	Look, if you don't want to be optimized, we really have no purpose. Therefore, I'm going to assume that you want to optimize the skills Diplomacy, Profession: Tailor, and Craft: Clothier, using core +UA and NPC classes only, at least to start. I'd recommend not taking more than 1 level of Aristocrat, and probably not even that. Certainly don't take it first, it doesn't have craft or profession as class skills. To go all out diplomacy, I recommend Intermediate Devil Bloodline Half-Elf Expert 11/Bloodline 3/Half-Elf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3 Starting with 16 Charisma and putting all ability boosts there, you end up with 26 Charisma. Diplomacy +47 23 ranks +2 Bloodline +8 Cha +3 Race/Paragon +6 Synergy +3 Skill Focus +2 Negotiator Even rushed, you can make a Hostile person Friendly automatically, or Helpful if your lucky; If he's only unfriendly, you have a very good chance of getting helpful. If you're not rushed, you can almost always turn Hostile to Helpful, and everyone one else automatically. Someone who starts out helpful should end up fanatic, to boot. And this is without items, you assuming they're available, you should be able to eke out another +7-12 from Charisma Boosters, Circlet of Persuasion, and Stone of Good Luck. Edit: Forgot about a MW diplomacy item, which should add another +2. Makes Rushed Unfriendly->Helpful automatic, Hostile->Helpful Automatic, Helpful->Fanatic Automatic, and gives a decent chance for Friendly->Fanatic.
FeceMan 01-26-07, 04:25 PM	thats great, barbarian tailor. the idea here is that my dm dosnt like optimized stuff. which i take to mean that the base class's are too powerfull. so i deoptimize the stuff he feels is valuable. and optimize the rest, it seems without alot of magic items im not going to be able to reach the "hostile to helpfull" on taking 10, but i should get em to friendly. and i wont be a bard. just, personable... maybe there is no optimizations left in Core/UA for a diplomacy build... without spells and bard... Your DM is a joke.
altpersona 01-26-07, 04:39 PM	Look, if you don't want to be optimized, we really have no purpose. Therefore, I'm going to assume that you want to optimize the skills Diplomacy, Profession: Tailor, and Craft: Clothier, using core +UA and NPC classes only, at least to start. I'd recommend not taking more than 1 level of Aristocrat, and probably not even that. Certainly don't take it first, it doesn't have craft or profession as class skills. To go all out diplomacy, I recommend Intermediate Devil Bloodline Half-Elf Expert 11/Bloodline 3/Half-Elf Paragon 3/Human Paragon 3 Starting with 16 Charisma and putting all ability boosts there, you end up with 26 Charisma. Diplomacy +47 23 ranks +2 Bloodline +8 Cha +3 Race/Paragon +6 Synergy +3 Skill Focus +2 Negotiator Even rushed, you can make a Hostile person Friendly automatically, or Helpful if your lucky; If he's only unfriendly, you have a very good chance of getting helpful. If you're not rushed, you can almost always turn Hostile to Helpful, and everyone one else automatically. Someone who starts out helpful should end up fanatic, to boot. And this is without items, you assuming they're available, you should be able to eke out another +7-12 from Charisma Boosters, Circlet of Persuasion, and Stone of Good Luck. this would drive the dm nuts. :) i need to find stuff on +x competency items... i do intend to take aristocrat at lvl 1, if i can ill add human paragon too it, but i dont know if that will fly. the npc reaction charts iv seen dont have fanatic on them, where is that?
Nifft 01-26-07, 05:44 PM	The Tailor of FLESH: Human Paragon 1 / Transmuter 3 / Human paragon +2 / Transmuter +2 / Fleshwarper 10 "Just a little knitting..." Starts out innocently enough... :) Cheers, -- N EDIT: Yeah, Fleshwarper isn't on the book list, but it's such a good "tailor" class. Encourage your DM to think of wizardry or sorcery as what professionals use in a magical world.
altpersona 01-26-07, 05:48 PM	i really like that actually, but not for the next round...
BalthazarDArgent 01-26-07, 05:50 PM	Oh I can't stand DMs who hide behind the mantra "more roleplaying" as a way to do less game prep. I'm in an Eberron game with super-max (not Gestalt) characters and the roleplaying is among the finest we have ever had. This will be the same guy who asks for these characters then put you through a dungeon crawl. Blech. Find a new DM, not a new character concept.
jameswilliamogle 01-26-07, 06:19 PM	Oh I can't stand DMs who hide behind the mantra "more roleplaying" as a way to do less game prep. I'm in an Eberron game with super-max (not Gestalt) characters and the roleplaying is among the finest we have ever had. This will be the same guy who asks for these characters then put you through a dungeon crawl. Blech. Find a new DM, not a new character concept.here here!!! and harumphs all around... harumph, harumph...
altpersona 01-26-07, 08:15 PM	im always game for a challenge... hopefully the paragon stuff will fly, its fairly close to taking a creature hit die equivelents...
Alennox 01-26-07, 08:34 PM	The title "a simple tailor" immediately made me think Garak from DS9. Why not add in a little something-something to his past? Sure, he's a tailor now. Now that he's been kicked out of his homeland, where he was being groomed to be the new head of Intelligence. That way, you are living as a simple tailor, but can have an interesting past, that might give you a reason to grab some skills you could find a use for in the future and in adventuring aside from diplomacy If you were taking base classes, I'd urge rogue, as they are the skill monkeys, but if your DM thinks those rogues are just crazy-powerful (holding back giving extensive criticism of your DM, here, BTW) expert probably would be the NPC class for it. Use the story to allow to to "optimize" under your DM's radar. Add some espionage-y skills that you can use in the world, and/or dungeon. Just an idea. Discard at your leisure. Alennox
altpersona 01-26-07, 08:54 PM	thats generaly whats going on, the lvl of aristocrat is for back story and starting money, i typically think of it as Ex aristocrat , followed by expert. if the dm agrees to let me use paragons, and a drag mag feat, noble born. then ill drop the aristocrat and just do expert and paragons. maybe half elf and human paragons... expert and human paragon are very similar, with paragon being much better... but only 3lvls... while im maxing the diplomacy, im also maxing craft , bluff , sense motive, knowledge nobility, and profession... probably some more to add... after about 6th lvl i will be out of productive feats, and will have to resort to more traditional things... unless i take skill focus in all those skills.. but really, the +3 isnt that big of a differnce. what i really need is a bigger skill point pool. im expecting 6 to 8 skill points per lvl after 1st and those are going to run thin when spread over 4 - 10 skills..
DarthDave 01-26-07, 10:08 PM	Consider getting Craft (Taxidermy) to 6 ranks, and netting the Trophey Collecter feat from PHB2. It grants some decent intimidation and willpower to you after making some nifty pelts/caps/etc. as trophies from your foes.
altpersona 01-26-07, 11:56 PM	craft taxidermy, thats added to the list. everyone needs a hobby... i dont know if i can get the feat ok'd but its worth a shot. thanks.