A Sneaky Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Sneaky Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FeceMan
01-20-06, 12:36 PM Thoughts on the build:

Rogue 1/Cleric 9/Shadowbane Stalker 10.

The goal is to get as many caster levels and sneak attack dice into the build as possible while retaining a high BAB.

How would you tweak this build? I was considering upping Cleric one level and taking SS down one, depending on how the tenth level plays out (I don't have the books with me).

Are there any feats that would be useful (aside from Practiced Spellcaster)? The whole 3/4 BAB and +0 at level 1 hurts :(.

Thanks for the help.

EDIT: Clerics that beat the hell out of people with weapons of DOOM and now sneak attack are viable alternatives.
LordofProcrastination
01-20-06, 06:18 PM Some important questions:
Which books are allowed?
What's the rest of your party like?
Is turning capacity important for your campaign?

For general advice, consider Divine Metamagic for feat selection, and Anything But Cleric for levels 5-9. There's really nothing other than turning-progression to be gained during those levels, so select pretty much any full-divine-casting-progression prestige class and run with it.
FeceMan
01-20-06, 07:40 PM Some important questions:
Which books are allowed?
What's the rest of your party like?
Is turning capacity important for your campaign?

For general advice, consider Divine Metamagic for feat selection, and Anything But Cleric for levels 5-9. There's really nothing other than turning-progression to be gained during those levels, so select pretty much any full-divine-casting-progression prestige class and run with it.
All the Complete books, no Vows/Variants, probably most others (race is human).

Rest of the party is retarded ;). The character is more of a loner type serving his deity, but, if necessary, the rest of the team are a Ranger, Druid/Wizard, Wizard, Cleric of Pelor, Fighter, Druid (going into MoMF), Rogue, and a Monk.

Turning capacity not important.
FeceMan
01-21-06, 12:19 AM No love for FeceMan?

Also, is there an evil version of the Shadowbane Stalker?
FeceMan
01-22-06, 01:10 AM Bump for LoP's help.
PhoenixInferno
01-22-06, 01:27 AM Looks OK, I guess. As for an evil version of Shadowbane Stalker, you could try making a similar rule that the Shadowbane Inquisitor has. Why do you want an evil build, you've got a Cleric of Pelor in your party and that's certain to create some sort of interparty conflict, which is fun for roleplaying, but not good in an optimization sense. Church Inquisitor is a good PrC to get into, and EXCEEDINGLY easy to qualify for mechanically.

If you insist on being evil, you can try Darkmask (Lords of Darkness).
FeceMan
01-22-06, 10:55 PM Looks OK, I guess. As for an evil version of Shadowbane Stalker, you could try making a similar rule that the Shadowbane Inquisitor has. Why do you want an evil build, you've got a Cleric of Pelor in your party and that's certain to create some sort of interparty conflict, which is fun for roleplaying, but not good in an optimization sense. Church Inquisitor is a good PrC to get into, and EXCEEDINGLY easy to qualify for mechanically.

If you insist on being evil, you can try Darkmask (Lords of Darkness).
There are a number of reasons that I was considering an evil cleric, and I won't get into all of them, but trust me when I say that there will be little interparty conflict regarding the servant of Pelor :).

Can you elaborate on the Darkmask? I've never even seen LoD, so...

Thanks :).
PhoenixInferno
01-22-06, 11:09 PM Its a PrC for male Drow and Half-Drow Clerics of Vhaearun. Advances Sneak Attack, Divine spellcasting, 4+INT skills and a couple of other decent abilities.
FeceMan
01-23-06, 01:15 AM Its a PrC for male Drow and Half-Drow Clerics of Vhaearun. Advances Sneak Attack, Divine spellcasting, 4+INT skills and a couple of other decent abilities.
That's hot :). I'll have to check it out.
stabs
01-23-06, 01:50 AM Maybe it hasn't been mentioned because it's so obvious, but the Trickey Domain gives you Bluff, Hide and Disguise as Cleric Class skills, so you could take that, then Silent Armour to boost the other half of stealth.
tommy_the_cat
01-23-06, 03:11 AM consider the divine trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/Func0015.html)
FeceMan
01-23-06, 11:41 AM Maybe it hasn't been mentioned because it's so obvious, but the Trickey Domain gives you Bluff, Hide and Disguise as Cleric Class skills, so you could take that, then Silent Armour to boost the other half of stealth.
What's Silent Armor?

[And it's too bad that the Trickery domain doesn't give you Move Silently as a class skill. Then my build would be set.]
LordofProcrastination
01-23-06, 03:12 PM Okay, back around books.

If you're content to stick with Good, then try:
Rogue 1/Cleric 5/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Church Inquistitor 4
9th level spellcasting, medium average skill progression, and some special abilities focused on bypassing magical trickery and finding things.

If you're going evil, I suggest a combination of Ur-Priest and Darkmask for likewise full spellcasting progression and a few miscellaneous special abilities.
Khazra Reborn
01-23-06, 04:46 PM Surely you cant be both a Ur Priest and the follower of a god?

I suggest you play:
human rogue1/cleric5/church inquisitor4/shadowbane stalker10
Domains:spell, planning, inquisition

You want to get out of cleric ASAP for a prestige class with better skills/level and the best way to do that is church inquisitor (though human paragon could also be a good option).
Spell domain gets greater anyspell. This gives you acess to nightstalkers transformation and shadow form as divine spells. Planning gets you extend spell, a pre-requisite for persitant spell.

Buy quite a few nightsticks and make he following persistable through divine metamagic:
Nighstalkers tranformation= +3D6 SA, +3 luck bonus to AC, +5 luck bonus to relex saves and evasion.
Shadow form=+4 to some key rogue skills.
Divine Power=full BaB, +6 str, temporary HP.

So the build has full BaB,7D6SA (IIRC), casts as a cleric 17, has evasion and a good reflex save.
FeceMan
01-23-06, 05:25 PM Surely you cant be both a Ur Priest and the follower of a god?

I suggest you play:
human rogue1/cleric5/church inquisitor4/shadowbane stalker10
Domains:spell, planning, inquisition

You want to get out of cleric ASAP for a prestige class with better skills/level and the best way to do that is church inquisitor (though human paragon could also be a good option).
Spell domain gets greater anyspell. This gives you acess to nightstalkers transformation and shadow form as divine spells. Planning gets you extend spell, a pre-requisite for persitant spell.

Buy quite a few nightsticks and make he following persistable through divine metamagic:
Nighstalkers tranformation= +3D6 SA, +3 luck bonus to AC, +5 luck bonus to relex saves and evasion.
Shadow form=+4 to some key rogue skills.
Divine Power=full BaB, +6 str, temporary HP.

So the build has full BaB,7D6SA (IIRC), casts as a cleric 17, has evasion and a good reflex save.
I LOVE YOU.

I'm considering taking a level of contemplative for the trickery domain for Mislead--is that a good idea or a bad one?
FeceMan
01-23-06, 08:24 PM Also, in what book(s) are the spell/planning domains?

EDIT: Blast, I just saw the planning domain--I was hoping to be a sycthe-wielding servant of Nerull :(. Any ways to get around this...perhaps take contemplative and grab the planning domain?
serow_#R
01-23-06, 11:34 PM hey hey i'm going to play a sneaky cleric too soon!!

but i'll be a rogue2 / cloistered cleric 4 / church inquisitor 6 / shadowbane stalker 8

with the [able learner] feat from races of destiny
FeceMan
01-24-06, 01:25 PM Here is the build I have been working on--it isn't super-optimal, I know, but the plan is to be a devout servant of Nerull.

(Please, please, please tell me that Able Learner works how I hope it does--site I'm looking on says all skills are "in class", which makes me think they count as class skills, but I'm afraid it just means that it only costs one skill point to raise them....PLEASE tell me that it's the former!)

Cleric 5/Assassin 1/Shadowbane Stalker (evil version) 3/Contemplative 1/Shadowbane Stalker 7/?? 3:

Domains: Trickery, Death.

1st: Able Learner, Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe.
3rd: Power Attack.
6th: Monkey Grip.
9th: Extra Rebuking.
10th: Domain: Planning.
12th: Persistent Spell.
15th: Divine Metamagic.
18th: Extra Rebuking.

Like I said, sub-optimal. Can anyone give me a hand on making that not so...not good?

However, if Able Learner isn't what I think it is--I wanted a level of Assassin so that I wouldn't ever accidentally poison myself--I'll try the following:

Rogue 1/Cleric 5/Shadowbane Stalker 3/Contemplative 1/Shadowbane Stalker 7/?? 3.

1st: Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe, Power Attack.
3rd: Monkey Grip.
6th: Power Attack.
9th: Extra Rebuking.
10th: Domain: Planning.
12th: Persistent Spell.
15th: Divine Metamagic.
18th: ?? (Practiced Spellcaster? Improved Critical: Scythe? Maker's Choice? [Feat from some book with a vast compilation of feats that gives bonuses depending on one's class and one must be a divine caster of level 15; would give me +2d6 SA damage.])

Of course, in the above, I considered sucking it up and taking a level of fighter for the free weapon proficiencies and the feat.

Any and all help would be, as usual, appreciated.

EDIT: If anyone has any RP ideas, too, that would be appreciated. From reading Nerull's description and seeing that he has the Trickery domain, it seemed to me that Nerull's servants would be more of a stealthy group; they would use sneak attacks and assassinations versus full-out combat (such as what Hextor might condone).
FeceMan
01-25-06, 11:05 AM Bah, screw the assassin build...the feat is too valuable, I'm afraid.

Though I'm still interested in hearing your RP-build ideas.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FeceMan 01-20-06, 12:36 PM	Thoughts on the build: Rogue 1/Cleric 9/Shadowbane Stalker 10. The goal is to get as many caster levels and sneak attack dice into the build as possible while retaining a high BAB. How would you tweak this build? I was considering upping Cleric one level and taking SS down one, depending on how the tenth level plays out (I don't have the books with me). Are there any feats that would be useful (aside from Practiced Spellcaster)? The whole 3/4 BAB and +0 at level 1 hurts :(. Thanks for the help. EDIT: Clerics that beat the hell out of people with weapons of DOOM and now sneak attack are viable alternatives.
LordofProcrastination 01-20-06, 06:18 PM	Some important questions: Which books are allowed? What's the rest of your party like? Is turning capacity important for your campaign? For general advice, consider Divine Metamagic for feat selection, and Anything But Cleric for levels 5-9. There's really nothing other than turning-progression to be gained during those levels, so select pretty much any full-divine-casting-progression prestige class and run with it.
FeceMan 01-20-06, 07:40 PM	Some important questions: Which books are allowed? What's the rest of your party like? Is turning capacity important for your campaign? For general advice, consider Divine Metamagic for feat selection, and Anything But Cleric for levels 5-9. There's really nothing other than turning-progression to be gained during those levels, so select pretty much any full-divine-casting-progression prestige class and run with it. All the Complete books, no Vows/Variants, probably most others (race is human). Rest of the party is retarded ;). The character is more of a loner type serving his deity, but, if necessary, the rest of the team are a Ranger, Druid/Wizard, Wizard, Cleric of Pelor, Fighter, Druid (going into MoMF), Rogue, and a Monk. Turning capacity not important.
FeceMan 01-21-06, 12:19 AM	No love for FeceMan? Also, is there an evil version of the Shadowbane Stalker?
FeceMan 01-22-06, 01:10 AM	Bump for LoP's help.
PhoenixInferno 01-22-06, 01:27 AM	Looks OK, I guess. As for an evil version of Shadowbane Stalker, you could try making a similar rule that the Shadowbane Inquisitor has. Why do you want an evil build, you've got a Cleric of Pelor in your party and that's certain to create some sort of interparty conflict, which is fun for roleplaying, but not good in an optimization sense. Church Inquisitor is a good PrC to get into, and EXCEEDINGLY easy to qualify for mechanically. If you insist on being evil, you can try Darkmask (Lords of Darkness).
FeceMan 01-22-06, 10:55 PM	Looks OK, I guess. As for an evil version of Shadowbane Stalker, you could try making a similar rule that the Shadowbane Inquisitor has. Why do you want an evil build, you've got a Cleric of Pelor in your party and that's certain to create some sort of interparty conflict, which is fun for roleplaying, but not good in an optimization sense. Church Inquisitor is a good PrC to get into, and EXCEEDINGLY easy to qualify for mechanically. If you insist on being evil, you can try Darkmask (Lords of Darkness). There are a number of reasons that I was considering an evil cleric, and I won't get into all of them, but trust me when I say that there will be little interparty conflict regarding the servant of Pelor :). Can you elaborate on the Darkmask? I've never even seen LoD, so... Thanks :).
PhoenixInferno 01-22-06, 11:09 PM	Its a PrC for male Drow and Half-Drow Clerics of Vhaearun. Advances Sneak Attack, Divine spellcasting, 4+INT skills and a couple of other decent abilities.
FeceMan 01-23-06, 01:15 AM	Its a PrC for male Drow and Half-Drow Clerics of Vhaearun. Advances Sneak Attack, Divine spellcasting, 4+INT skills and a couple of other decent abilities. That's hot :). I'll have to check it out.
stabs 01-23-06, 01:50 AM	Maybe it hasn't been mentioned because it's so obvious, but the Trickey Domain gives you Bluff, Hide and Disguise as Cleric Class skills, so you could take that, then Silent Armour to boost the other half of stealth.
tommy_the_cat 01-23-06, 03:11 AM	consider the divine trickster (http://www.giantitp.com/Func0015.html)
FeceMan 01-23-06, 11:41 AM	Maybe it hasn't been mentioned because it's so obvious, but the Trickey Domain gives you Bluff, Hide and Disguise as Cleric Class skills, so you could take that, then Silent Armour to boost the other half of stealth. What's Silent Armor? [And it's too bad that the Trickery domain doesn't give you Move Silently as a class skill. Then my build would be set.]
LordofProcrastination 01-23-06, 03:12 PM	Okay, back around books. If you're content to stick with Good, then try: Rogue 1/Cleric 5/Shadowbane Stalker 10/Church Inquistitor 4 9th level spellcasting, medium average skill progression, and some special abilities focused on bypassing magical trickery and finding things. If you're going evil, I suggest a combination of Ur-Priest and Darkmask for likewise full spellcasting progression and a few miscellaneous special abilities.
Khazra Reborn 01-23-06, 04:46 PM	Surely you cant be both a Ur Priest and the follower of a god? I suggest you play: human rogue1/cleric5/church inquisitor4/shadowbane stalker10 Domains:spell, planning, inquisition You want to get out of cleric ASAP for a prestige class with better skills/level and the best way to do that is church inquisitor (though human paragon could also be a good option). Spell domain gets greater anyspell. This gives you acess to nightstalkers transformation and shadow form as divine spells. Planning gets you extend spell, a pre-requisite for persitant spell. Buy quite a few nightsticks and make he following persistable through divine metamagic: Nighstalkers tranformation= +3D6 SA, +3 luck bonus to AC, +5 luck bonus to relex saves and evasion. Shadow form=+4 to some key rogue skills. Divine Power=full BaB, +6 str, temporary HP. So the build has full BaB,7D6SA (IIRC), casts as a cleric 17, has evasion and a good reflex save.
FeceMan 01-23-06, 05:25 PM	Surely you cant be both a Ur Priest and the follower of a god? I suggest you play: human rogue1/cleric5/church inquisitor4/shadowbane stalker10 Domains:spell, planning, inquisition You want to get out of cleric ASAP for a prestige class with better skills/level and the best way to do that is church inquisitor (though human paragon could also be a good option). Spell domain gets greater anyspell. This gives you acess to nightstalkers transformation and shadow form as divine spells. Planning gets you extend spell, a pre-requisite for persitant spell. Buy quite a few nightsticks and make he following persistable through divine metamagic: Nighstalkers tranformation= +3D6 SA, +3 luck bonus to AC, +5 luck bonus to relex saves and evasion. Shadow form=+4 to some key rogue skills. Divine Power=full BaB, +6 str, temporary HP. So the build has full BaB,7D6SA (IIRC), casts as a cleric 17, has evasion and a good reflex save. I LOVE YOU. I'm considering taking a level of contemplative for the trickery domain for Mislead--is that a good idea or a bad one?
FeceMan 01-23-06, 08:24 PM	Also, in what book(s) are the spell/planning domains? EDIT: Blast, I just saw the planning domain--I was hoping to be a sycthe-wielding servant of Nerull :(. Any ways to get around this...perhaps take contemplative and grab the planning domain?
serow_#R 01-23-06, 11:34 PM	hey hey i'm going to play a sneaky cleric too soon!! but i'll be a rogue2 / cloistered cleric 4 / church inquisitor 6 / shadowbane stalker 8 with the [able learner] feat from races of destiny
FeceMan 01-24-06, 01:25 PM	Here is the build I have been working on--it isn't super-optimal, I know, but the plan is to be a devout servant of Nerull. (Please, please, please tell me that Able Learner works how I hope it does--site I'm looking on says all skills are "in class", which makes me think they count as class skills, but I'm afraid it just means that it only costs one skill point to raise them....PLEASE tell me that it's the former!) Cleric 5/Assassin 1/Shadowbane Stalker (evil version) 3/Contemplative 1/Shadowbane Stalker 7/?? 3: Domains: Trickery, Death. 1st: Able Learner, Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe. 3rd: Power Attack. 6th: Monkey Grip. 9th: Extra Rebuking. 10th: Domain: Planning. 12th: Persistent Spell. 15th: Divine Metamagic. 18th: Extra Rebuking. Like I said, sub-optimal. Can anyone give me a hand on making that not so...not good? However, if Able Learner isn't what I think it is--I wanted a level of Assassin so that I wouldn't ever accidentally poison myself--I'll try the following: Rogue 1/Cleric 5/Shadowbane Stalker 3/Contemplative 1/Shadowbane Stalker 7/?? 3. 1st: Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe, Power Attack. 3rd: Monkey Grip. 6th: Power Attack. 9th: Extra Rebuking. 10th: Domain: Planning. 12th: Persistent Spell. 15th: Divine Metamagic. 18th: ?? (Practiced Spellcaster? Improved Critical: Scythe? Maker's Choice? [Feat from some book with a vast compilation of feats that gives bonuses depending on one's class and one must be a divine caster of level 15; would give me +2d6 SA damage.]) Of course, in the above, I considered sucking it up and taking a level of fighter for the free weapon proficiencies and the feat. Any and all help would be, as usual, appreciated. EDIT: If anyone has any RP ideas, too, that would be appreciated. From reading Nerull's description and seeing that he has the Trickery domain, it seemed to me that Nerull's servants would be more of a stealthy group; they would use sneak attacks and assassinations versus full-out combat (such as what Hextor might condone).
FeceMan 01-25-06, 11:05 AM	Bah, screw the assassin build...the feat is too valuable, I'm afraid. Though I'm still interested in hearing your RP-build ideas.