Post/Author/DateTime	Post
progresslevel9 10-29-06, 01:37 AM	Ok, heres the deal. In my campaign coming up, we've got the following houserulse. NO MAGIC ITEMS, WHATSOEVER. and in return, we get A FEAT EVERY LEVEL. And max hp, every level. We also roll 4d6, dropping one, 12 times and assign for stats. For books, we're sticking core-only, at the moment. With stats of Str 15 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 15 cha 15 at 7th level, and as a human, how should I optimize a wizard? I'm seeking to go non-flashy, here...maybe abjuration/conjuration focused? Keep in mind, Core only. With 8 feats and Scribe Scroll...not sure what to take. Most of the metamagic aint too useful yet, it seems...but extend/still/silent might be good. A thing to point out here, is that I'll be turning against the party pretty soon in, and so want to be a challenge to them, but not a BBEG of any sort. I already know about fly/windwall, but have never really played a wizard before. Any tips/ideas? Thanks in advance!
X-Codes 10-29-06, 01:56 AM	This is so pointless, I'm not even going to put a period after this sentence Ask your DM if he can share his stuff next time he smokes. Until then, go with SF:Conjuration, Augment Summoning, SF: Necromancy, GSF: Necromancy, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Wand, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Construct, and Empower Spell (Bonus feat, 5th level Wizard). Get a lot of big, mean, undead baddies (7-headed hydra zombies, frost/stone giant skeletons, and basically anything else you can raise). When undead get released from your Animate Dead-based control, hit them with Command Undead, which is effectively unlimited. When it comes time to do battle with the rest of the party, make yourself Greater Invisible and have your minions attack the party in a closed area, with undead blocking the exits. Throw a Cloudkill into the area and follow up with a Ray of Enfeeblement on anyone in heavy armor. Keep the undead whacking the others and they should die off easily enough. Your Undead should also have too many HD for the cleric to turn. Even if they kill you, you undead minions should finish them off.
progresslevel9 10-29-06, 02:25 AM	Nifty. Very Nifty. Unfortunately, we're not sure who's coming to dinner...but whoever they are, they'll be core-only as well, and so will most assuredly perish. Which isn't what I really want. Ideally, I'll be in place to help them, and then turn into an enemy as part of a plot twist, and roadblock. Also, additional things I should have mentioned. 1) this will be happening our first session, at Games Day. Hydras will be awfully hard to come by. 2) it's entirely possible, as these rules are part of a campaign contention that I'm helping him with, that he or indeed, we, might fudge things on the fly. Even if I did spring a guaranteed fatality on them, it might not be. 3) Yeah, i definately should've mentioned the Gamesday thing in the first post...indeed, we want to attract a few more gamers to our group...and make sure everybody has fun...I think I best go for reasource depletion here. I'm ok with taking the backseat. That all being said (a little later than it should've been...) GREATER INVIS! why did I not think of that? Infact, I'll be teamed up with a 7th Cleric here, so she can potentially fill the same role of the hydras. Ray of enfeeblement works to keep her alive, and neutralize the opposition, and i've certainly a fine preponderance of potential damage spells. Are the various cloud spells any good? Aside from the one you just mentioned, ofcourse.
Hanniball 10-29-06, 02:50 AM	In my campaign coming up, we've got the following houserulse. NO MAGIC ITEMS, WHATSOEVER. and in return, we get A FEAT EVERY LEVEL. And max hp, every level. What the :censored:?! Does that mean you can't even use your free Scribe Scroll feat? If you can't craft your own items, I'd suggest the following feats: Empower Spell for blasting (i.e. Scorching Ray) Extend Spell for buffing Silent Spell for remaining hidden while Invisible Improved Initiative for going first Spell Focus: (school of choice) and Greater Spell focus Leadership for a badass cohort If you're trying to take on a larger party, don't forget to Polymorph yourself and your familiar into Trolls before the fight begins. A Troll bodyguard is great when he's under your direct control. ...indeed, we want to attract a few more gamers to our group...and make sure everybody has fun... Wait, you're trying to attract more people to game with by murdering the entire party during the first session? WTF?
DarknessEternal 10-29-06, 03:24 AM	NO MAGIC ITEMS, WHATSOEVER. and in return, we get A FEAT EVERY LEVEL. And max hp, every level. We also roll 4d6, dropping one, 12 times and assign for stats. For books, we're sticking core-only, at the moment. So is this your DM's way of saying "play a primary caster or don't play"?
unusualsuspect 10-29-06, 03:38 AM	Something with Kensai or Psychic Weapon Master might be passable, i suppose, though still not even close to a match for a primary spellcaster or manifester.
Endarire 10-29-06, 03:49 PM	Greater stone golems if possible. -EE
PhaedrusXY 10-29-06, 04:02 PM	Go look through this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=498609). It isn't core only, but it is a mid-level PvP environment with no magic items, so alot of the strategies employed there might be useful to you. The first two characters I posted in that thread were wizards, but people immediately started building their characters around countering/defending against mine after I'd posted them. :P One thing to consider: the non-spellcasters armor classes are going to totally suck, and the spellcasters ACs probably won't be great either, unless they totally go crazy with buffing themselves. So I'd suggest just ignoring AC, and using things like Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, etc. Summoned Monsters are going to be alot stronger than normal due to everyone's sucky ACs. People without access to spells are basically screwed. Evard's Black Tentacles will be horrible. Stack it with Slow, Web, Solid Fog, etc, and basically noone is getting out (except clerics with Freedom of Movement). Enervation will be nasty.
Senevri 10-29-06, 05:20 PM	Heh. I've played in a "No _buyable_ magic items" campaign, and really... Most of the time you don't need the optimum character - just an interesting concept that is _good enough_... Still, with all those feats... - Tough to get PRCs - Hard to model character concepts become more viable.
Eyeless Blond 10-29-06, 05:42 PM	With so few ways to get magic bonuses to AC/saves, I'd suggest the DM adding half the character's BAB as a bonus to AC and saves. That'll help out the fighters who'd otherwise have real problems keeping up with the casters, and help alleviate the fact that the fighter is now much less useful than it was before.
progresslevel9 10-29-06, 11:00 PM	Yeah, a lot of this is definately leaning towards what we had in mind for campaign rules...a Defense score would be in there, and armor might then act as damage reduction (sheilds would be unnafected, though.) As we're also making a few sample handout characters for whoever shows up...what do you think this would do to, say, a Core fighter? I feel like, not very much. At least now, the can go full power attack tree, full spring attack tree, and still have room for Weapon specific feats and maybe one of the flavor feats (alertness, athletic, what have you.) This could also help to patch up how we can reflavor a fighter, within the bounds of core (I:e, have enough feats that two different styles are equally viable?) More likely, though, the fighters will simply not be picked. Ah well. That all being said...we had also discussed some ideas, tentatively, to pair back spellcasting, and explain why it wouldn't be so prevalent in the campaign setting. 1) congealed, collected magic can be volatile...only the most well-crafted, massive effects can be self-sustaining -- thus, most magic will be more setting oriented, like Mythals or transportation alternatives. 2) the act of casting opens oneself up to dangerous exposure -- thus, either spellcasting as a whole, or perhaps simply metamagic, would have a basic skill check system built in, similar to truenaming (though, far more likely it'll be based on effective spell level, and not arbitrary things beyond the player's control.) Finally, our DM likes a good superheroic meleer. At least, he likes inserting them as plot-drivers and deus-ex-machinpc's. :rolleyes: Tome of Battle would suit our needs quite well...If we didn't, in the distant future, want to publish a setting. But, in the mean time... Looking at some of your suggestions has been most helpful. Mind you, I've NEVER bothered, in 7 years, to play a caster-character. Or a non-blasty gish-ish, at best. If it wasn't a damage effect, I just didn't see the use, and swords seemed to be better, given the character package they usually required for proper use. It appears I've some brainstorming to do. ---- also, getting a bit long here...we'd discussed a fighter fix: giving them 4+ skills a level, considering most would still dump int, and giving them weapon focus, speciallization, etc, for free, in odd-numbered levels, eventually letting them apply to broad weapon groups. But that is not the purview of this here board, is it? ;)
NoldorForce 10-29-06, 11:04 PM	If you're making that many changes to the system...just play Iron Heroes. Many of the changes you've mentioned that exist or are being considered exist in similar fashion there.
progresslevel9 10-30-06, 12:52 AM	If you're making that many changes to the system...just play Iron Heroes. Many of the changes you've mentioned that exist or are being considered exist in similar fashion there. yeah, yeah, I know. Haven't taken a look at that book's magic system, but I saw something about spell points and endurance checks? Anyways, short term, thats the ideal solution, save for games-day. Ah well, I think my initial questions have been answered. Thanks for the help, guys!
Zendu 10-30-06, 04:46 AM	VoP? I mean...why not take it. Also, your dm sux.