Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FeceMan 04-27-06, 01:20 AM	That is, a paladin/ranger, if you hadn't caught that. (Like the bardadin, of which Caelic has recently written.) What I'm going for here is a straightforward build that avoids a lot of cheese but is still fairly potent. As of now, I'm thinking a ranger 15/paladin 5 build. The first ranger level will be elvish substitution; paladin levels one, three, and five will also be elvish substitution because they are simply that much better. Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot. Ranger 3: Precise Shot. Paladin 3/Ranger 3: Devoted Tracker. Paladin 5/Ranger 4: Natural Bond. I'm kind of stuck after this point. I was figuring that Ranged Pin and Ranged Disarm would both be good feats, since the character would want to focus on not killing his opponents but capturing them. I was also considering Woodland Archer, since that's pretty darn good. This lead me to wondering if I should get some more smites in per day, so I thought about grabbing Extra Smiting. Lightfeet is cool, too. Able Sniper would be useful, since I imagined this elf being more of a smiting sniper than a standard archer. However, I'm afraid I haven't enough feats for everything I'd like, so I came to the boards for help. What feats should I take? Should I (perhaps) take a two-level dip into fighter to grab some feats? [By the way, I have looked through the Ranger build thread but I haven't found anything to my liking. Too much cheese.]
stembolt 04-27-06, 01:36 AM	Is there any synergy between ranger and paladin? Other than Smite? You may want to just play a ranger with a code of honor, or an exalted PrC.
ZeroEffect 04-27-06, 03:58 AM	That is, a paladin/ranger, if you hadn't caught that. (Like the bardadin, of which Caelic has recently written.) What I'm going for here is a straightforward build that avoids a lot of cheese but is still fairly potent. As of now, I'm thinking a ranger 15/paladin 5 build. The first ranger level will be elvish substitution; paladin levels one, three, and five will also be elvish substitution because they are simply that much better. Ranger 1: Point Blank Shot. Ranger 3: Precise Shot. Paladin 3/Ranger 3: Devoted Tracker. Paladin 5/Ranger 4: Natural Bond. I'm kind of stuck after this point. I was figuring that Ranged Pin and Ranged Disarm would both be good feats, since the character would want to focus on not killing his opponents but capturing them. I was also considering Woodland Archer, since that's pretty darn good. This lead me to wondering if I should get some more smites in per day, so I thought about grabbing Extra Smiting. Lightfeet is cool, too. Able Sniper would be useful, since I imagined this elf being more of a smiting sniper than a standard archer. However, I'm afraid I haven't enough feats for everything I'd like, so I came to the boards for help. What feats should I take? Should I (perhaps) take a two-level dip into fighter to grab some feats? [By the way, I have looked through the Ranger build thread but I haven't found anything to my liking. Too much cheese.] Let me get this straight... You have come to the CO board for advice and you're complaining that there's too much cheese in the basic ranger build thread? Go back to the toilet from whence you came!!! If you don't have enough feat slots... YES, you should take a level or two of Fighter to get more feats. Are you avoiding prestige classes on purpose? What aspects of the Ranger do you want to preserve in this build? What aspects of the Paladin do you want to preserve in this build?
AngelLemmingThief 04-27-06, 04:47 AM	Is there any synergy between ranger and paladin? Other than Smite? You may want to just play a ranger with a code of honor, or an exalted PrC. Yeah. I could be way wrong but from my exposure to it Stalker of Kharash seems very much like a Palanger.
Necromas 04-27-06, 04:52 AM	I suggest taking Prestigue Paladin or Prestigue Ranger as your second class, you could even argue with the DM that since your casting is already at half CL, that every level of prestigue paladin/ranger would increase your divine casting abilities instead of every other.
X-Codes 04-27-06, 05:33 AM	I suggest taking Prestigue Paladin or Prestigue Ranger as your second class, you could even argue with the DM that since your casting is already at half CL, that every level of prestigue paladin/ranger would increase your divine casting abilities instead of every other. P-R-E-S-T-I-G-E Actually, every level of PPaladin and PRanger that advances spellcasting, well, advances spellcasting! You can also use PRanger combat styles in Heavy Armor, too, meaning only 15 Dex to get Greater TWF. PRanger also adds full level to Animal Companion as opposed to half. Regardless, it doesn't matter because the Elf Paladin and Elf Ranger sub levels all suck. Elf Paladins and Elf Rangers aren't that bad, but the sub levels really suck.
Khazra Reborn 04-27-06, 07:40 AM	Stalker of kharash is a good idea and also easiest. A ranger6/paladin4/windwalker10 isnt bad for a paladin/ranger and it has some powerful goodies. Halfling outrider is very powerful for a combined companion/mount that often outshines the character. Human paragon3/paladin4/netyar hunter5 is strong but im not entirely sure where you could go with it. Possibly you could combine it with the windwalker? Lastly, human paragon3/cleric2/prestige paladin3/prestige ranger3/windwalker9. This gets you 17th level cleric casting aswell as the best of paladin and ranger.
LogicNinja 04-27-06, 08:51 AM	I think I've got what you're looking for. Halflings! Who doesn't love'em? Silly people, is who. Halfling (get Strongheart Halfling subrace for a bonus feat if you can, doing this without). -I'm going to suggest a template here, just because it can fit nicely, help out, and be flavorful: Feytouched, or the first racial level of Half-Fey ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a they're here). A fey-blooded halfling, bound to nature and to Light, who protects his kin. So! 1 - Ranger 1: Track, Point Blank Shot LA +1 - "Racial" Half-Fey level 1: +2 DEX, +2 CHA, -2 CON; Spell-Like Abilities; Low-Light Vision; Fey Type; +4 save vs. enchantment 2 - Ranger 2: Rapid Shot (combat style - archery) 3 - Ranger 3: Mounted Combat (prerequisite) 5 - Ranger 4: Animal Companion! Get a riding dog. 6 - Paladin 1: Devoted Tracker 7 - Paladin 2: Divine Grace 8 - Paladin 3: 9 - Paladin 4: Turn Undead, Mounted Archery (prerequisite) 10 - Paladin 5: Special Mount! 11 - Halfling Outrider (Comp. Warrior) 1: Altertness, Ride bonus, and Mount (here's the kicker: halfling outrider levels stack with paladin levels for special mount purposes, and with ranger for animal companion purposes--so your Mount Companion (thanks to Devoted Tracker) will rock) 12 - Halfling Outrider 2: Defensive Riding, Precise Shot 13 - Halfling Outrider 3: Unbroken Charge 14 - Halfling Outrider 4: Stand on mount (no more penalties when shooting from mount) 15 - Halfling Outrider 5: Leap from the saddle, Natural Bond (your doggy is now even better) 16 - Halfling Outrider 6: 17 - Halfling Outrider 7: Evasion 18 - Halfling Outrider 8: Full Mounted Attack, (Free feat: if you got Strongheart Halfling, move all feats back one level earlier, so you get Power Attack at 15th and Divine Might at 18th; if not, take Improved Precise Shot) 19 - Paladin 6: OR Half-Fey second level (total +2 LA-butterfly wings, enchantment immune, +2 WIS, +2 CHA), OR Monk 1 (wis to AC) The result is an ECL 20 halfling, either level 19 with one "racial template level" of Half-Fey (think of it as applying only part of the template), or level 18 and with both (effectively, with the half-fey template). Get butterfly wings and enchantment immunity and another. You get full BAB. Raise DEX primary, then CHA and CON, some STR--if you're going to take monk, WIS instead of CHA or CON or STR can help. Your riding dog will truly be a sight to behold. It'll get the goodies of a 5 Paladin + 8 Halfling Outrider = level 13 paladin, and a 2 druid (4 / 2, ranger) +3 druid (natural bond) + 4 druid (8 / 2, halfling outrider) = level 9 druid. From Druid, it gets: +6 bonus HD, +6 Natural Armor, +5 STR/DEX, 4 Bonus Tricks, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack. From paladin it gets: +6 bonus HD, +8 natural armor, +3 STR, Improved Evasion, Share Saving Throws, Share Spells, Improved Speed, Command Creatures of its Kind, and *8 int*. VERY smart dog. So, overall: Base riding dog: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 2d8 hit dice +4 Natural Armor It gets, in total: +12 HD, +14 Nat. Armor, +8 STR, +5 DEX, 4 Bonus Tricks, Link & Empathic Link, Share Spells, Improved Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Command Creatures of its Kind, 8 INT. The result: 23 STR, 20 DEX, 15 CON, 8 INT, WIS 12, CHA 6 riding dog with: 14d8 HD; AC 33 (10 + 18 Nat Arm + 5 dex); Improved Evasion. It shares spells with you, so you can use your one paladin spell and one ranger spell to give it some short-term bonuses which might prove handy. That's a helluva dog. And you can swap the ranger's side of the progression (animal companion) out for a better kind of animal. Wanna ride a big dinosaur? You could. In addition to your dog, you'll be a great high-dex archer with Evasion, +CHA to saves (and useable to add to damage, with Divine Might), +4 AC while mounted (from Halfling Outrider), 18 or 19 BAB, possibly WIS to AC (if you take the last level as monk), able to have your mount move but you still take a full attack with no penalties, Rapid Shot, Improved Precise Shot (who cares about cover?)... and your uber-mount will be medium, so it can go anywhere Medium party members can go!
ChrisAsmadi 04-27-06, 11:07 AM	LogicNinja, that build gains almost no benefit from Paladin 6. If I recall, the best halfling paladin/'ranger' mounted build was Paladin 5/Beastmaster 2/Wild Plains Outrider 3/Halfling Outrider 10. This gives extra animal companion progression(18th level with natural bond) and good paladin mount progression(also 18th level). Your mount gains a few extras from Wild Plains Outrider, too.
OologahQ 04-27-06, 12:03 PM	I think one of the sub-themes he's looking for is pumping the unicorn mount of the elven paladin substitution level. As a lover of animal companions and super mounts I approve of this goal. Beofre grabbing natural bond I would take Skill Focus (Handle Animal) and 1 level of Beastmaster. That nets you 4 levels of animal companion equivalence and allows it to go above your character level. Go ahead and take natural bond too since as far I can tell these stack. So I'd say: Paladin 5/Ranger 4: Skill Focus (Handle Animal) Pal 5/Rgr 4/Beastmaster 1: Note this prevents you from leveling as a Paladin again, but you now have a equivalent druid level 6 for your unicorn. Then at Pal 5/Rgr 6/Beastmaster 1 you take Natural Bond and your EDL is 10. That means a 10HD unicorn. I gather you're not thinking about mounted archery but rather just having your unicorn fight melee while you fight ranged, which I think is the right choice.
FeceMan 04-27-06, 05:40 PM	I'm sorry, but elven paladin substitution levels do NOT suck. Ranged smite...without having to take a feat? And a unicorn mount? Yeah, those are SOOOO bad. Second of all, the only race I see being able to pull this off is an elf. That's something I'm doing for RP. Halfling Outrider does NOT stack with both druid and paladin levels. Any GM worth his salt would rule that it's one or the other, and I find it cheesy. Yeah, it's cool to design a technically possible super mount, just to see the insane stats, but I would feel wrong doing that. Also, like I said, I'm going for an elf. Unfortunately, my GM hates Unearthed Arcana because he doesn't want to learn a new system (he says that racial paragon classes are overpowered, but they are obviously not). Anyway, I was avoiding PrCs because I wanted to get combat style class features and increase my animal companion/mount. Thanks for the help from those of you who attempted to, you know, help.
LogicNinja 04-27-06, 06:32 PM	Halfling outrider pretty clearly stacks with paladin's mount if you have one of those, and rangers' companions if you have one of those. If you have both, both advance--i.e. a ranger/paladin who doesn't have Devoted Tracker to use his companion as his mount. Note that the results are *not* game-breaking--14d8 HD and AC 33 at 20th is really not that great. It does, however, make your mount survivable when they're otoriously fragile otherwise. If those aren't what you're looking for ("elf with a unicorn"), okay. Chris: Yeah, the paladin 6 would be a pretty poor choice. I'd take the half-fey or the monk level. Alternatively, one could go ranger4/paladin5/Halfling Outrider 8/Wild Plains Outrider 3 if one wants the WPO stuff and doesn't want to be a half-fey.