A Suggestion To My Fellow Powergamers [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Suggestion To My Fellow Powergamers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Joseph_Silver
02-09-07, 10:47 AM Yes, I call myself a powergamer. I call myself a powergamer because "powergamer" sounds so much better than "min/maxer".

Anyway, one thing that I've noticed in this forum is that when someone asks for advice on how to optimize his character, we assume that he has unrestricted access to all splatbooks ever printed.

It is very rare for a DM to allow the use of all splatbooks in his campaign. Most DMs run core-only campaigns, while others restrict their players to one or two splatbooks.

I am a realistic powergamer. I powergame within the limits set by my DM. Would it be too much to ask to stay within the limits that the player asking for advice is restricted to?

And to those asking for advice, it would be a good idea to include which books your DM allows, so that we can help you better.

P.S.

I know it's fun to go all out and come up with incredibly broken builds, but such builds never get approved by any DM with common sense.
Adrian_Crane
02-09-07, 11:00 AM One of the first things that gets asked is which books are allowed. If it seems like the selection is flexible, then we'll throw in the best solutions from any book, on the assumption that the player can talk things over with their DM to get that material in.
DaveTheMagicWeasel
02-09-07, 01:31 PM All of this is in the Posting Guidelines.

The problem (insofar as there is one) comes when the OP doesn't post what books are available, so people start firing out random suggestions.

However, IMX (and when I DM) most DMs don't have an "allowed books" list. They judge things on a case by case basis, so the real limitation is on what books people own (which they should list) and what their DM will let fly (which we cannot comment on on these boards, tho advice is often accompanied by a "check it with your DM").
WayneTheGame
02-09-07, 05:57 PM IMO the problem is that people will tend to list books that may not be allowed in the OP's game, and then try to give the OP excuses on how they can con their DM into letting it be used.
HelloRaptor
02-09-07, 06:11 PM This 'Most DMs run core-only' thing constantly baffles me. I've been running and playing in games across 5 different states on and off for the past ...well, since 3.0 came out. And with the exception of the beginning, when there weren't any options, I haven't known more than a couple of 'Core-Only' DMs. The only one that routinely is is when it's a group from all over that includes many new-to-D&D people each year.

Huh.
Edea
02-09-07, 06:29 PM It certainly doesn't make things any simpler or "powerproof." It just gives the DM four to five divine casters in his party group :/. Oh, and perhaps a wizard ^^.
Kurama Youko
02-09-07, 06:47 PM like someone else said, if people don't list what books they have access to we will just fire off all the 3.5 cheap tricks/tactics that fit what they are looking for. :p
NatchFeral
02-09-07, 08:11 PM OT: I resent being referred to as a powergamer. Munchkin, while I am at it. Optimizer is fine.
fil kearney
02-09-07, 08:45 PM I like optimizer too.

Sounds important. and I'm pretty important. and sound. but not so pretty.
Valanthe
02-09-07, 11:30 PM Just to add examples, I've personally never ran into any core-only groups, and I frequent three different gaming stores, plus have my own groups / know of friends' groups.

But really, most of this could be solved if people tried to follow posting guidelines. I've missed a few points myself sometimes, but at least look them over.
FruitOfTheShroom
02-09-07, 11:56 PM As has been said, all of this is in the posting guidelines.

And most DMs that I have played with, including myself as a DM, usually goes on a "what we own" and case-by-case basis.

The one core-only game we had ended up being awful because the druid in the party outshined everyone by a MILE.
Edea
02-10-07, 12:14 AM The one core-only game we had ended up being awful because the druid in the party outshined everyone by a MILE.

Sad, isn't it? Splatbooks actually make the playing field MORE LEVEL. Good god, man! Supplemental materials are supposed to "break" the game, not fix it :eek: .
Khan the Destroyer
02-10-07, 12:46 AM Who cares about the posting guidelines? It's not like the optimizers here are slavishly devoted to some sort of Response Guidelines. An OP can do everything by the book and his thread might still get ignored. He might forget one thing and get flamed for it. He might tell you what books are available and have half a dozen people tell him how he should get his DM to allow Book X, because with Book X you can do this and that and yadda yadda yadda.

Theoretical builds take 'All Books Available' for granted. And since the CO Board sort of became a playground for theoretical builds, I think that mentality sort of creeped into the practical optimization part of things. It's of course easier to optimize with more material, but not everyone has a vast library.

Of course, if you come here saying 'core only', you'll just get a link and a reprimand anyways.

Well... maybe a link.
PhoenixInferno
02-10-07, 01:07 AM An OP can do everything by the book and his thread might still get ignored. No one can guarantee a response - but that person did their best to provide adequate information and a modicum of decency, in which case it is our fault that we didn't respond, and no one denies that.He might forget one thing and get flamed for it.Haven't seen a particular instance of that in a while, except for people assuming everyone is a native English speaker. He might tell you what books are available and have half a dozen people tell him how he should get his DM to allow Book X, because with Book X you can do this and that and yadda yadda yadda.It is the truth - they should be made aware of it. If the person looking for help were interested in the material, they would go buy or view the book.

Personally, I wish the take-away from the Posting Guidelines was "we are not paid to do this so if you want help, expect to work for it"
Caelic
02-10-07, 09:05 AM Of course, if you come here saying 'core only', you'll just get a link and a reprimand anyways.

Well... maybe a link.

...and very likely a rant about how your DM's a bad DM, how he can't handle the challenge of playing 3.5 the way it was meant to be played, and you shouldn't play with him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Joseph_Silver 02-09-07, 10:47 AM	Yes, I call myself a powergamer. I call myself a powergamer because "powergamer" sounds so much better than "min/maxer". Anyway, one thing that I've noticed in this forum is that when someone asks for advice on how to optimize his character, we assume that he has unrestricted access to all splatbooks ever printed. It is very rare for a DM to allow the use of all splatbooks in his campaign. Most DMs run core-only campaigns, while others restrict their players to one or two splatbooks. I am a realistic powergamer. I powergame within the limits set by my DM. Would it be too much to ask to stay within the limits that the player asking for advice is restricted to? And to those asking for advice, it would be a good idea to include which books your DM allows, so that we can help you better. P.S. I know it's fun to go all out and come up with incredibly broken builds, but such builds never get approved by any DM with common sense.
Adrian_Crane 02-09-07, 11:00 AM	One of the first things that gets asked is which books are allowed. If it seems like the selection is flexible, then we'll throw in the best solutions from any book, on the assumption that the player can talk things over with their DM to get that material in.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 02-09-07, 01:31 PM	All of this is in the Posting Guidelines. The problem (insofar as there is one) comes when the OP doesn't post what books are available, so people start firing out random suggestions. However, IMX (and when I DM) most DMs don't have an "allowed books" list. They judge things on a case by case basis, so the real limitation is on what books people own (which they should list) and what their DM will let fly (which we cannot comment on on these boards, tho advice is often accompanied by a "check it with your DM").
WayneTheGame 02-09-07, 05:57 PM	IMO the problem is that people will tend to list books that may not be allowed in the OP's game, and then try to give the OP excuses on how they can con their DM into letting it be used.
HelloRaptor 02-09-07, 06:11 PM	This 'Most DMs run core-only' thing constantly baffles me. I've been running and playing in games across 5 different states on and off for the past ...well, since 3.0 came out. And with the exception of the beginning, when there weren't any options, I haven't known more than a couple of 'Core-Only' DMs. The only one that routinely is is when it's a group from all over that includes many new-to-D&D people each year. Huh.
Edea 02-09-07, 06:29 PM	It certainly doesn't make things any simpler or "powerproof." It just gives the DM four to five divine casters in his party group :/. Oh, and perhaps a wizard ^^.
Kurama Youko 02-09-07, 06:47 PM	like someone else said, if people don't list what books they have access to we will just fire off all the 3.5 cheap tricks/tactics that fit what they are looking for. :p
NatchFeral 02-09-07, 08:11 PM	OT: I resent being referred to as a powergamer. Munchkin, while I am at it. Optimizer is fine.
fil kearney 02-09-07, 08:45 PM	I like optimizer too. Sounds important. and I'm pretty important. and sound. but not so pretty.
Valanthe 02-09-07, 11:30 PM	Just to add examples, I've personally never ran into any core-only groups, and I frequent three different gaming stores, plus have my own groups / know of friends' groups. But really, most of this could be solved if people tried to follow posting guidelines. I've missed a few points myself sometimes, but at least look them over.
FruitOfTheShroom 02-09-07, 11:56 PM	As has been said, all of this is in the posting guidelines. And most DMs that I have played with, including myself as a DM, usually goes on a "what we own" and case-by-case basis. The one core-only game we had ended up being awful because the druid in the party outshined everyone by a MILE.
Edea 02-10-07, 12:14 AM	The one core-only game we had ended up being awful because the druid in the party outshined everyone by a MILE. Sad, isn't it? Splatbooks actually make the playing field MORE LEVEL. Good god, man! Supplemental materials are supposed to "break" the game, not fix it :eek: .
Khan the Destroyer 02-10-07, 12:46 AM	Who cares about the posting guidelines? It's not like the optimizers here are slavishly devoted to some sort of Response Guidelines. An OP can do everything by the book and his thread might still get ignored. He might forget one thing and get flamed for it. He might tell you what books are available and have half a dozen people tell him how he should get his DM to allow Book X, because with Book X you can do this and that and yadda yadda yadda. Theoretical builds take 'All Books Available' for granted. And since the CO Board sort of became a playground for theoretical builds, I think that mentality sort of creeped into the practical optimization part of things. It's of course easier to optimize with more material, but not everyone has a vast library. Of course, if you come here saying 'core only', you'll just get a link and a reprimand anyways. Well... maybe a link.
PhoenixInferno 02-10-07, 01:07 AM	An OP can do everything by the book and his thread might still get ignored. No one can guarantee a response - but that person did their best to provide adequate information and a modicum of decency, in which case it is our fault that we didn't respond, and no one denies that.He might forget one thing and get flamed for it.Haven't seen a particular instance of that in a while, except for people assuming everyone is a native English speaker. He might tell you what books are available and have half a dozen people tell him how he should get his DM to allow Book X, because with Book X you can do this and that and yadda yadda yadda.It is the truth - they should be made aware of it. If the person looking for help were interested in the material, they would go buy or view the book. Personally, I wish the take-away from the Posting Guidelines was "we are not paid to do this so if you want help, expect to work for it"
Caelic 02-10-07, 09:05 AM	Of course, if you come here saying 'core only', you'll just get a link and a reprimand anyways. Well... maybe a link. ...and very likely a rant about how your DM's a bad DM, how he can't handle the challenge of playing 3.5 the way it was meant to be played, and you shouldn't play with him.