A support character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A support character? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cannonballninja
11-18-05, 03:11 PM I was sitting down and thinking about an upcomming gestalt campaign while thumbing through my copy of the Complete Arcane. After a few minuets of staring blankly at the pages I decided that I would try to play a bard instead of just dismissing them as usual. Eventually, I settled on going for a full support character instead of a straight bard, and then I realized I could get a healthy spell casting compliment as well. In the end I came up with a rather messy build. And it's this build I'd like ya'll to take a look at.

Bard 1 / Paladin of Anarchy 1
Bard 2 / Paladin of Anarchy 2
Bard 3 / Marshal 1
Bard 4 / Marshal 2
Bard 5 / Hexblade 1
War Chanter 1 / Bard 6
War Chanter 2 / Bard 7
War Chanter 3 / Bard 8
War Chanter 4 / Bard 9
War Chanter 5 / Marshal 3
Sublime Chord 1 / Hexblade 2
Sublime Chord 2 / Human 1
Fate Spinner 1 / Marshal 4
Fate Spinner 2 / Marshal 5
Fate Spinner 3 / Marshal 6
Fate Spinner 4 / Marshal 7
Divine Oracle 1 / Human 2
Divine Oracle 2 / Marshal 8
War Chanter 6 / Human 3
War Chanter 7 / Hexblade 3

Requirements for all the prcs: Feats (Combat Expertise, weapon focus) and Skills (know arcana 13, listen 13, perform singing 13, profession astrologer 6, spell craft 6, bluff 4, diplomacy 4, intimiadte 4, sense motive 4, profession gambler 4).

------------------

It's a bit convulted right now but I'll try to explain why I've picked the classes I have.

------------------

Bard: An obvious choice really. Their music offer some of the best support abilites in the game and while I only go up to bard 9I still get a lot of music uses from the bard prcs.

Paladin of Anarchy: Well, I couldn't go standard paladin because of alignment restrictions so I went with the Anarchy varient from Dragon Magazine 310 To be honest I'm dipping 2 leves for Divine Grace and that's really the only reason I have the class.

Marshal: Another excellent support class. Thankfully, WotC has the details on their website so I was able to pick it up. Alot of people just dip marshal to help with diplomacy builds but I've decided to take it to 8 to make use of some of their better abilities like Grant Movement although I haven't decided on any of the aura's yet.

Human Racial Levels: Again, taking all 3 levels I'm maximzing charisma and getting another extra feat as well. Also, the extra two caster levels will be a big help.

War Chanter: By using the extra BAB that the Paladin of Freedom recieves I can take this class by character level 5 which leaves enough room to fit in a good 7 levels of this class. It gives a good Bab progression and offers some nice musical abilites including combine songs and Inspire Recklessness.

Sublime Chord: On it's own a decent bard prc that gives you acess to 9th level arcane spells. I've taken two levels and then used a slew of +1 to arcane caster level boosts from various other classes to grab the full caster progression without finishing the class. Although this does mean I only get their Song of Arcane Power.

Fate Spinner: Four levels. The caster level improvements go towards the sublime chord but the real attraction to this class are the fate abilities. Next to the Bard and the Marshal noth says support like rerolling dice.

Divine Oracle: A recent addition and one that was added to make up for a pair of lost caster levels when I dropped half-elf paragon and mindbender. A few more edits later I could have picked mindbender back up but this class offers more. Divine Precisence is a handy ability (coupled with the high saves) and some extra spells never hurty anyone.

------------------------------

The whole build nearly has a full BaB progression which is very nice. HD are mostly d8s although the Paladin of Anarchy and the Hexblade throw in a few d10s. With charisma as a primary stat and both divine grace and arcane resistance the saves are waaaay up across the board. Add divine precisence and mettle and things start looking bad for the spell casters.....

Now, what I'm really looking for here is a check to make sure this build is legal. Then, if it is legal, can ya'll go over the level progression and see if it it's at it's most efficent? Finally, if you can I'd like some suggestions for good feats. I'll be taking a couple of flaws although I haven't quite decided on which yet and maybe - just maybe - I might go exalted and grab the Words of Creation feat.
batstek
11-18-05, 03:16 PM Mindbender's got a non-good alignment restriction. Won't work with Paladin of Freedom in the same build. Also, can you take both Half-elf and Human Paragon?
Cannonballninja
11-18-05, 03:19 PM Right, I'll have to change mindbender - any suggestions?

And damn, I misread the Divided Ancestry ability of the half-elf paragon class so it looks like I'm just going with human paragon. Again, any suggestions for a good caster level boosting class?

If there aren't any more base classes that increase the caster level progression (and I doubt there are) I'll drop mindbender and the last level of fate spinner and fill the gap with sublime chord levels.

EDIT: I've replaced mindbender and the last level of fatespinner with an extra two levels of sublime chord to achieve the full caster progression. Also dropped the half-elf levels and replaced one of them with another level of bard. Still looking for suggestions though
sCRuLooSe
11-18-05, 03:40 PM I have a build here that is similar to yours. The build is neutral in alignment and slightly weaker as a combatant (16 BAB using fractional). This may fit more in your support role than your current build.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7321744

If not, just substiture Paladin of slaughter or Hexblade for those paladin levels (a 3rd level of hexblade for Mettle would not hurt.). If you want to go good, might I suggest Divine Oracle to replace mindbender and that 5th level of fatespinner. In conjunction with a decent Dex+divine grace you could make good use of their prescient sense ability at 2nd. Other than the alignment restriction, this build looks legal.

I would take a serious look at Virtuoso instead of Warchanter but that is just me.

Good luck
Cannonballninja
11-18-05, 04:02 PM I don't have the Complete Adventurer so I can't say if I'd want to take Virtuoso or not so I'm going to have to stick with War Chanter.

However, I did manage to fix the alignment problems by switching out the Paladin of Freedom of the Paladin of Anarchy from Dragon 310. Dropped the bard levels back down to 9, removed two levels of sublime chord and filled out the level progression with 3 levels of hexblade and two levels of Divine Oracle. Damn his saves are looking good...
jstorrie
11-18-05, 05:11 PM With the Devoted Performer feat from CA you can mix regular Paladin and Bard levels.

The half-elf bard substitution levels are ultrahot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cannonballninja 11-18-05, 03:11 PM	I was sitting down and thinking about an upcomming gestalt campaign while thumbing through my copy of the Complete Arcane. After a few minuets of staring blankly at the pages I decided that I would try to play a bard instead of just dismissing them as usual. Eventually, I settled on going for a full support character instead of a straight bard, and then I realized I could get a healthy spell casting compliment as well. In the end I came up with a rather messy build. And it's this build I'd like ya'll to take a look at. Bard 1 / Paladin of Anarchy 1 Bard 2 / Paladin of Anarchy 2 Bard 3 / Marshal 1 Bard 4 / Marshal 2 Bard 5 / Hexblade 1 War Chanter 1 / Bard 6 War Chanter 2 / Bard 7 War Chanter 3 / Bard 8 War Chanter 4 / Bard 9 War Chanter 5 / Marshal 3 Sublime Chord 1 / Hexblade 2 Sublime Chord 2 / Human 1 Fate Spinner 1 / Marshal 4 Fate Spinner 2 / Marshal 5 Fate Spinner 3 / Marshal 6 Fate Spinner 4 / Marshal 7 Divine Oracle 1 / Human 2 Divine Oracle 2 / Marshal 8 War Chanter 6 / Human 3 War Chanter 7 / Hexblade 3 Requirements for all the prcs: Feats (Combat Expertise, weapon focus) and Skills (know arcana 13, listen 13, perform singing 13, profession astrologer 6, spell craft 6, bluff 4, diplomacy 4, intimiadte 4, sense motive 4, profession gambler 4). ------------------ It's a bit convulted right now but I'll try to explain why I've picked the classes I have. ------------------ Bard: An obvious choice really. Their music offer some of the best support abilites in the game and while I only go up to bard 9I still get a lot of music uses from the bard prcs. Paladin of Anarchy: Well, I couldn't go standard paladin because of alignment restrictions so I went with the Anarchy varient from Dragon Magazine 310 To be honest I'm dipping 2 leves for Divine Grace and that's really the only reason I have the class. Marshal: Another excellent support class. Thankfully, WotC has the details on their website so I was able to pick it up. Alot of people just dip marshal to help with diplomacy builds but I've decided to take it to 8 to make use of some of their better abilities like Grant Movement although I haven't decided on any of the aura's yet. Human Racial Levels: Again, taking all 3 levels I'm maximzing charisma and getting another extra feat as well. Also, the extra two caster levels will be a big help. War Chanter: By using the extra BAB that the Paladin of Freedom recieves I can take this class by character level 5 which leaves enough room to fit in a good 7 levels of this class. It gives a good Bab progression and offers some nice musical abilites including combine songs and Inspire Recklessness. Sublime Chord: On it's own a decent bard prc that gives you acess to 9th level arcane spells. I've taken two levels and then used a slew of +1 to arcane caster level boosts from various other classes to grab the full caster progression without finishing the class. Although this does mean I only get their Song of Arcane Power. Fate Spinner: Four levels. The caster level improvements go towards the sublime chord but the real attraction to this class are the fate abilities. Next to the Bard and the Marshal noth says support like rerolling dice. Divine Oracle: A recent addition and one that was added to make up for a pair of lost caster levels when I dropped half-elf paragon and mindbender. A few more edits later I could have picked mindbender back up but this class offers more. Divine Precisence is a handy ability (coupled with the high saves) and some extra spells never hurty anyone. ------------------------------ The whole build nearly has a full BaB progression which is very nice. HD are mostly d8s although the Paladin of Anarchy and the Hexblade throw in a few d10s. With charisma as a primary stat and both divine grace and arcane resistance the saves are waaaay up across the board. Add divine precisence and mettle and things start looking bad for the spell casters..... Now, what I'm really looking for here is a check to make sure this build is legal. Then, if it is legal, can ya'll go over the level progression and see if it it's at it's most efficent? Finally, if you can I'd like some suggestions for good feats. I'll be taking a couple of flaws although I haven't quite decided on which yet and maybe - just maybe - I might go exalted and grab the Words of Creation feat.
batstek 11-18-05, 03:16 PM	Mindbender's got a non-good alignment restriction. Won't work with Paladin of Freedom in the same build. Also, can you take both Half-elf and Human Paragon?
Cannonballninja 11-18-05, 03:19 PM	Right, I'll have to change mindbender - any suggestions? And damn, I misread the Divided Ancestry ability of the half-elf paragon class so it looks like I'm just going with human paragon. Again, any suggestions for a good caster level boosting class? If there aren't any more base classes that increase the caster level progression (and I doubt there are) I'll drop mindbender and the last level of fate spinner and fill the gap with sublime chord levels. EDIT: I've replaced mindbender and the last level of fatespinner with an extra two levels of sublime chord to achieve the full caster progression. Also dropped the half-elf levels and replaced one of them with another level of bard. Still looking for suggestions though
sCRuLooSe 11-18-05, 03:40 PM	I have a build here that is similar to yours. The build is neutral in alignment and slightly weaker as a combatant (16 BAB using fractional). This may fit more in your support role than your current build. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7321744 If not, just substiture Paladin of slaughter or Hexblade for those paladin levels (a 3rd level of hexblade for Mettle would not hurt.). If you want to go good, might I suggest Divine Oracle to replace mindbender and that 5th level of fatespinner. In conjunction with a decent Dex+divine grace you could make good use of their prescient sense ability at 2nd. Other than the alignment restriction, this build looks legal. I would take a serious look at Virtuoso instead of Warchanter but that is just me. Good luck
Cannonballninja 11-18-05, 04:02 PM	I don't have the Complete Adventurer so I can't say if I'd want to take Virtuoso or not so I'm going to have to stick with War Chanter. However, I did manage to fix the alignment problems by switching out the Paladin of Freedom of the Paladin of Anarchy from Dragon 310. Dropped the bard levels back down to 9, removed two levels of sublime chord and filled out the level progression with 3 levels of hexblade and two levels of Divine Oracle. Damn his saves are looking good...
jstorrie 11-18-05, 05:11 PM	With the Devoted Performer feat from CA you can mix regular Paladin and Bard levels. The half-elf bard substitution levels are ultrahot.