Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Thing in the Night 01-01-05, 06:16 PM	The group that I DM is debating the merits of an "all-arcane" campain, and is having trouble fulfilling the 4 key party roles (tank, skill monkey, blaster, and healer). I reccomended a Sublime Trickster, (the) Gish, Mystic Theurge, and incantrix/archmage, but this seems a little stale. Any suggestions for an interesting all-arcane party?
Snow Savant 01-01-05, 06:36 PM	Depends on the level you are starting at. At 3rd level for example, the 4 of you will have your asses handed to you. If for example you are starting at 14th level, the paradigm changes completely. And you are more apt to enjoy building 4 kick-ass multi-tasking magi who can fill-out the more traditional iconic responsibilities of a given group.
trapspringer 01-01-05, 08:56 PM	If your DM makes the campaign with the understanding that their will be four casters (which, btw, can fill all the rolls needed by level 3 easy) then you will ahve no problem. Good Feats and Varients You'll Need: -Battle Sorcerer (Varient Class, UA) -Arcane Disciple (General Feat, CD) -Toughness (General Feat, PHB)
sma 01-01-05, 10:16 PM	Don´t ever take Toughness. Unless it´s a prerequisite you´ll be sorry for having taken it later on. Rather even if it´s a prerequisite you´ll be sorry for having taken it. Cast false life if you need the HP but never ever take a feat that gives you a static 3 HP unless someone is forcing you to. You´ll need some meatshields, so look into some of the summoning builds on these boards. The lack of a cleric will probably hurt the most, as those ability restoring spells tend to come in handy. But as Snow said, starting level makes a huge difference here.
Dauntless 01-02-05, 02:51 AM	A sorcerer with leadership wouldn't hurt either. :) Also how much of a caster does each person have to be? Would the DM mind a spellsword who plans on taking all 10 levels (essentially becoming more of a warrior who can cast spells, rather than a wizard who can fight)?
PaTRiXXX 01-02-05, 07:32 AM	Bard, Hexblade, Warmage, Battle Sorcerer and Warlock are all arcane clases that may be interesting for an all arcane group. A bard with wand of CLW and a wizard with the feat that allows to create magic wands is probably enough to heal the party. The feat Battle Caster from Complete Arcane will be very interesting to Hexblade, Warmage and Battle Sorcerer. The 1st level as a ranger, as a rogue or as a wilderness rogue and the feat able learner are extremely interesting for a character with high int as the party scout or trapfinder. PS: such a pitty that a sorcerer can't take the feat "Extra Spell (Cure Light Wounds)"
Battousai 01-02-05, 08:10 AM	PS: such a pitty that a sorcerer can't take the feat "Extra Spell (Cure Light Wounds)" I can't see why he can't. Nothing in the feat description prevents that. Not only nothing stops the sorcerer to take a divine spell , but CLW is an arcane spell too. This feat is just like Extra Power (I think that's the name) , which allow PsyWar to learn Psion powers.
PaTRiXXX 01-02-05, 09:31 AM	I can't see why he can't. Nothing in the feat description prevents that. Not only nothing stops the sorcerer to take a divine spell , but CLW is an arcane spell too. This feat is just like Extra Power (I think that's the name) , which allow PsyWar to learn Psion powers. If that's true, then I would reccomend that more than one person in the Arcane group to have this spell available (be it a bard or be it with the extra spell).
Battousai 01-02-05, 09:46 AM	I don't know if what I said is true, mind you. Even then, spending a feat to have ONE spell is not that useful. Take 3 levels in human paragon , add UMD to all your classes and you're set. If you are a sorcerer you'll get a sky high charisma anyway so your UMD score will be high. Buy yourself a couple wands of CLW and you are ready to adventure everywhere. Another way is to use the Skill Knowledge feat ,also in UA. Simply choose UMD.
Alratan 01-02-05, 10:27 AM	If an Artificier would be included in an all-arcane party then you're all set.
ninjarabbit 01-02-05, 11:09 AM	Ask the gish player if he wants to be a caster who can fight well, be fairly balanced, or a fighter who can cast well, that makes a huge difference in the type of build you'll want.
ronyon 01-02-05, 11:20 AM	Is the Witch a viable option? Other than the access to the cure spells at 1st and second,it is strictly speaking worse than a sorcerer,as it a has a very limited spell list.
The Thing in the Night 01-03-05, 09:01 PM	I AM the DM, I'm just looking for reccomendations for my players. Starting at 1st obviously, but I know that if I run more than one combat encounter a day they will have not only their asses, but several other important bits handed to them as well. The campain I am running now began with 3 casters (all variant necromancers from dragon) and a ghul (also from dragon) monk (even though we started at 1st, I let him make it to give everyone hope). Suffice to say, the monk was always taken down in the 1st round, leaving the necromancers to slash feebly with daggers at all remaining opponents. What I'm looking for is builds that would create a balanced and interesting party (when used in combination). I know toughness is worthless, but improved toughness is always worth a shot.
Eidolon Faer 01-04-05, 01:18 AM	Okay... First of all, you're going to be very light on Healing ability, even with a Bard. This will heavily impact the design of the Arcane Gish character who's going to be playing the party meleer role. Rogue 2 / Hexblade 15 / Blackguard 3 might be a good mix. -- Insane saves vs spells, Evasion and Mettle, and the ability to suppress the saves of enemies near you might just mean you can stand there and have the Evoker rain fireballs down on you with impunity, slaying everything near you. Monk 1 / Wizard 3 / Enlightened Fist 5 / Master Transmogrifist 10 / (Warshaper 1 or Monk 2) is also worthy of consideration. Especially if you take a Tiefling and can use the UA Level Adjustment buyback. The trick is optimizing your forms. Several Bladesinger builds might also provide an excellent party Gish as they typically develop the ability to become nearly unhittable. 3 Swashbuckler levels make an outstanding Wizard Bladesinger prefix, netting you the BAB to qualify for the PrC and the ability to add Int to weapon damage as well as to AC. As far as the trapfinder type, either a Bard with a couple levels of Rogue, an Illumian Loredelver (from Races of Destiny), or a Arcane Trickster would all be suitable. To fill the healer archetype you really have few outstanding options in a niche that Clerics own. A Bard, Wands of Cure Light Wounds and Use Magic Device skill, and other options have been discussed. There's also the possibility of a Mystic Theurge type character with both Divine and Arcane spells. And finally, a Conjurer might be able to grow into the healer role in a pinch by summoning celestials and other beings with healing spell-like abilities. The Illumian race from Races of Destiny is very tweaked for a Mystic Theurge type character.
Khazra Reborn 01-04-05, 06:47 AM	As a tank a hexblade/dragon disciple is nice. Be sure to take battle caster so mithral full plate can beused
The Thing in the Night 01-07-05, 12:11 AM	Thanks for the builds Faer, but the enlightened fist one won't work (you need 8 ranks of concentration, and thus must be 5th level) It would work with another level of wiz or mnk first, though. Master Transmogrifist is just nasty at 10th level. Turn into a gold dragon for 6 attacks, plus 8 tentacle rakes from mixing in octupus, now add arcane strike and multiattack, and mixing a scorching ray in there with the EF ability...holy crap. The blackguard one won't work, because this time I won't let my players be evil (so I can throw an Ur-Singer at them without them trying to buddy up and rule the world) However most of the dragon 310 variant paladins will work, as they have divine grace also. Thats two builds down, an a few more to go.