a Taste of his own medicine [Archive] - Wizards Community

a Taste of his own medicine [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 01:27 PM Hi,

I'm reasonably new to the DMing game, my group and I have started a rotating DM system so that we don't get too bored with the current campaign. Recently our own cheese artist was the DM and faced the group against one of his customised monsters. Now usually we can deal, but this was a customised duskblade, and even though our party is above avrage for a group. with an AC of 29 at 8th level, we had to hit a natural 17 or higher to hit him. And as stupid as it was in hindsite our mage cannot do much in the way of damage, we rely on a crusader and a warblade. after a very long draw out fight my Crusader managed to crit and end it. but it wasn't pritty.

Anyway, i wish to show him how hard it was, I managed to get the rest of the group to agree to this as well. But the thing is, he is the customiser in the group, and we arn't that flash at making above avrage characters.

So I'm asking for your help, could people please tell me how to go about making a fortress of a character. something that no one at level 7 should beable to hit. I know I'm petty, but its hard to go from unbeatable to a corpse. I do not mind if there is no way to hit this thing, i will thorw in some sort of roleplaying aspect to beat it.

***This was copied from the DM help fourms because i was told that charaopt would be a better place for it, please help me i want to beat this cheese artist at his own game. our party consists of a Crusader, Warblade (pure damage), Warlock/Rogue (took the darkness and devilsite invocations, near impossible to see when hiding.) and finally the cheese artiest himself an undead bard who trips. please help me.
GDarius
10-13-06, 01:45 PM with an AC of 29 at 8th level, we had to hit a natural 17 or higher to hit him. And as stupid as it was in hindsite our mage cannot do much in the way of damage, we rely on a crusader and a warblade. after a very long draw out fight my Crusader managed to crit and end it. but it wasn't pritty.

We've went through a similar encounter. The thing is, AC monsters rarely have good Touch AC. A good tactic would probably have been to have your Warblade use Emerald Razor whenever he could, and use Power Attack to your advantage. Likewise, Tripping would probably have been a decent option provided one of your tanks had the foresight to take Improved Trip.

So I'm asking for your help, could people please tell me how to go about making a fortress of a character. something that no one at level 7 should beable to hit. I know I'm petty, but its hard to go from unbeatable to a corpse. I do not mind if there is no way to hit this thing, i will thorw in some sort of roleplaying aspect to beat it.

If by "Fortress" you mean "High AC", then something as simple as a Swordsage 8 can get up to the 30 mark with the right items and feats.

16 DEX
16 WIS
Chain Shirt +2
Ring of Protection +1
Amulet of NA +1
= 24 on its own.

If you can min/max stats (18 in DEX & WIS) then it goes up to 26. Add in Combat Expertise for an additional +5 (total 31 AC, 25 touch), and the afore mentioned Emerald Razor to make sure he can still hit something, and that's pretty sweet stuff right there. Possibly throw in a couple of Fighter levels for the Quick Staff style (Complete Warrior) feat for an additional +2 dodge bonus. Not exactly optimal, but every little bit helps, right?

Here's the thing.
I'm of the opinion that a Fortress character isn't one with just a high AC, but rather one that can keep the fight up for a long time through self healing/buffing and high HP/ Damage Reduction/ Fast Healing.

That said, check this build (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9895728&postcount=188) out. It should give you some ideas, at least. If you decide to go with the Crusader option, remember to throw in Stone Power. Nothing says "Fortress" quite like Fast Healing 10, in addition to the healing strikes of Devoted Spirit.
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 01:51 PM Yes, i agree that crusaders are a very nice class, i've playing once since they came out. and thats a very nice layout so simple yet so potent. we play with a number of house rules....so many its hard to keep track of, if fact i can't even remember why we started some. Like we uped the amount of feats people were taking by making it a 2, 4, 6, 8...ect...ect. Anyway thanks for the ideas, i shall continue to work on this, and as a final note when i said fortress i prictured someone encased in armour, so yes i was thinking like an armour class of 35 by 8th level....if thats even possible.
ravenkith
10-13-06, 02:08 PM Simply: Make it a good cleric of pelor. SInce you are level 7 and he is taking all of you on alone, I would give him two or three additional levels...let's call it level 10.

Make him a deep dwarf. Give him Daylight adaptation.

Give him the Sun Domain & the glory domain.

Give him mithril full plate.

a heavy steel shield.

A longsword.

Give him Extend spell.

Prepare two extended magic vestments.

Prepare 1 extended magic weapon, greater.

Cast both MVs on the clerics Shield and Armor. Each spell will give you a + 3 to his armor class. Assume a dex of at least 16...

10 + 3 Dex + 8 Full Plate + 2 Shield + 3MV(A) + 3MV(S)
= 29

Throw on a Shield of Faith for a + 3 Deflection bonus to take his ac to 32.

Buy him an amulet of natural armor + 2 for 8000gp to bring it 34...

You can probably get to 40 if you try..but I'm trying to make something playable against.

Note: Since he's a dwarf, he gets a stability bonus against ye olde undead tripper. He can also throw down with a righteous might and a divine power to turn himself into your player's worst nightmare. With greater magic weapon on his longsword +2 bonus, and locking gauntlets, it's tough to disarm him too.

This guy shows up. You describe him as a pale dwarf who looks vaguely threatening. His shield has a cloth cover on it, held in place by strings that are tied in such a way as to let the cover fall off using a free action to slip the knot loose.

He meets them in the road, and nods to them, looking at each, but bids them stop when he gets to ye olde bard.

"You allow undead to travel with you? They are the scum of the earth, and by all rights should be wiped out!" he says, stretching...

From there, you provoke a fight. They get into a fight. (It's usually pretty darned easy to get into a fight with adventurers :rolleyes: ). They're swinging, you're swinging, bard boys trying to trip...which brings him within 60ft.

That's when the dwarf grins, looses the cords on his shield, revealing that it looks like a big old smiling anthropomorphic sun...and is in fact the dwarf's holy symbol.

1 turn undead, using the domain powers of both the sun and glory domains....no more Undead bard (which is just plain wrong), he's dusted, gone, and NOT COMING BACK.

At this point, the characters might try to talk to the dwarf, to find out why he attacked them. The dwarf will tell them, and part company peacefully if possible: he was told about the undead and came to destroy it, as any good cleric of pelor should...but it turns out he was told by a fellow name "X Name of Y town", Y being the twon that one of the characters is from, who promptly that character recognizes as having been a suspected member of the reputed assasin's guild.

If the party and the dwarf fights on, they find a note giving them similar information among his belongings.

Oh look, plot this way ------------> :D

The best part about this build is although the dwarf is tough to beat, he's only carrying 1 actual magic item: the amulet of natural armor + 2...everything else he has is mundane...sure, the full plate is really nice, but it ain't magical...and for a tank who dumped dex, it's sub optimal.

FOr one who has a high dex it's quite darned good...

and if anyone complains about the 'poor' loot, just smile and laugh: cause although the mithril plate is technically worth 10k, they can only sell it for half value :D
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 02:17 PM thats the kind of thinking i'm looking for....I only have 2 problems with it... 1) when the group started this campaign we agreed that we could not attach or paint or anything else, a holy symbol onto. and 2) RSoP are overpowerd even by my standards...and one of the rules of this campaign is, if a DM can do it the player can do it...and since we don't really want a RSoP in the party its kind of a no go. though its good thinking, easy to adapt too. few more suggestions like this and i'll have a great few sessions.
ravenkith
10-13-06, 02:36 PM 1. At no point does this guy take the Radiant Servant of Pelor prestige class...he's straight cleric. He simply takes the Sun and Glory domains, both of which are under Pelor's normal purview, as per complete divine.
2. His shield isn't painted with his holy symbol...his holy symbol is his shield. The thing about the peloran faith is that the sun is their holy symbol...it's round, can be made out of anything from wood to metal, and wood can be carved and metal can be worked....

It is literally a plus-sized holy symbol with a handle on the back.

A gift from a group of giants with whom he brokered a peace treaty, perhaps.

However, if you don't want to use the shield Idea, have him take the quickdraw feat and place it in a special sheath on his belt...whatever.

It's just there for the suprise factor. That "Oh crud" moment when he realises just how pwned he is about to get.
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 02:43 PM Now that i like....poor vampire....i thank you...very cool ideas i now can't wait for next session.

**EDIT**

I did forget to mention hes playing a changling vampire....so NPC's can't exactly tell hes a vamp untill things get a little close, but these ideas still work for me.
ravenkith
10-13-06, 02:47 PM Now that i like....poor vampire....i thank you...very cool ideas i now can't wait for next session.

He's a vampire? How? I thought you said you were all level 7?

A 1st level bard/vampire is considered level 9...

(the template has a +8 LA, that is to say, level adjustment)
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 02:51 PM err another thing i forgot to mention...sorry i keep thinking i'm still in the DM fourms where i explained all this already, we play with house rules, we have converted the vampire into a progression...its prtty bad as well, we removed almost all the good abilities....so its only a 4 LA and hes only got one level in it so far, basicly the only benefit hes got so far is the undead subtype.
ravenkith
10-13-06, 03:15 PM :yuck: i pity the fool...

and you say he's a cheesemonger? :pbbbtt:
Prominence
10-13-06, 03:16 PM As a 3 HD (ECL 7) undead, a level 6 cleric can dominate or dust him with -no problem-. Any level 6 cleric. His saves probably suck to the point any level 5 wizard can Command Undead him.
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 03:20 PM well, so far i've only managed to hit 37 AC anyone got any more ideas? that is including combat expertise, dodge, quick staff, +1 fullplate, +1 tower shield, 16 dex and shield of faith plus and amulet of natural armour...any other ideas?
ravenkith
10-13-06, 03:21 PM Yeah, he's boned...read up on the turning rules: that's all you'll ever need to teach him a lesson:

<rebuke> : "Now my slave, tear apart your former allies..."
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 03:23 PM tear apart? err more like attempt to pin and bite or just trip....thats basicly all hes good for, anyway thanks for your help this should be sweet, we were slack jaw when we saw that AC of 29, can't wait for the reaction of 37+.
Prominence
10-13-06, 03:25 PM Well, no one mentioned Alter self via Spell domain into Troglodyte for another +6 AC.

Divine Spell Power feat can easily add another +2-3 AC with the increased CL.

edit: reduce person for another +1 AC if you wanted.
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 03:26 PM dear god....this is getting out of hand.....what is that 44 AC?
Prominence
10-13-06, 03:27 PM oh yeah, Divine Shield feat for cha to AC.

edit: It's in Complete Warrior I think, standard action 1 turn/rebuke -> cha to AC for HD/2 rounds
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 03:30 PM which book is the Divine shield feat from?
GDarius
10-13-06, 03:42 PM well, so far i've only managed to hit 37 AC anyone got any more ideas? that is including combat expertise, dodge, quick staff, +1 fullplate, +1 tower shield, 16 dex and shield of faith plus and amulet of natural armour...any other ideas?

Quick Staff is a combat style feat. It only applies if you're wielding a Quarterstaff and use Combat Expertise. This is why I suggested it for the Swordsage. A Cleric would get more mileage out of a shield (and save some feats to boot).

Divine Shield is from Complete Warrior, pages 106-108 (it's not three pages long or anything. It starts at the bottom of 106, pg 107 is a full-page picture and the feat is concluded at the top of 108).
PhaedrusXY
10-13-06, 04:20 PM I'm always amazed when I see things like "we couldn't believe someone had a 29 AC at 8th level". :P I also don't see what you're even angry about. You beat the NPC he sent against you, and you didn't mention anyone in your party dying. What's so bad about actually having a challenging combat once and a while?
Judging Eagle
10-13-06, 06:59 PM I'm always amazed when I see things like "we couldn't believe someone had a 29 AC at 8th level". :P I also don't see what you're even angry about. You beat the NPC he sent against you, and you didn't mention anyone in your party dying. What's so bad about actually having a challenging combat once and a while?

Yeah, I'm with you there.

The two most challenging encounters in our last adventure-arc have proved to have taught me the most.

After hitting lvl 7 I'm going to go back to the crafting pits and craft my librarian the stuff he needs to hit 35-41 AC.

As for 29 AC at lvl 8. You better believe it. My level 6 Archivist was pulling off that kind of AC, he's going to be running at AC 35 from now on, 43 with Sheild of Faith (+3) and Bite of the Wererat (+6). I'm not even intending on being a 'main' or even an 'off' tank anymore. Going to -8 once and dying a second time have only made my character more paranoid, hence his prediliction for defesive gear.

If your main tanks don't have well over 25 AC at this level, I dread to think of your parties continued survival.
PhoenixInferno
10-13-06, 07:41 PM I'm always amazed when I see things like "we couldn't believe someone had a 29 AC at 8th level". :P I also don't see what you're even angry about. You beat the NPC he sent against you, and you didn't mention anyone in your party dying. What's so bad about actually having a challenging combat once and a while?Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Or dies.

And no one died!
lo_wang_2000
10-13-06, 11:16 PM err...have you been reading or skim reading? i said my Crusader was the last one standing, litterly. mage, dead, warblade, dead, rogue warlock, dead crusader 10 hp remaining with 10 str. i only want to show him what a true challenge is like on the players end, you dont seem to realise that this isnt a one off event, not this servere but things like it. he constantly makes them. i just wanted to show him up at his own game.
Hanniball
10-14-06, 10:33 PM off the top of my head:

Good Halfling Cleric 8 (Spell domain)

Stats (elite array): str 6 dex 16 con 10 int 13 wis 15(+2 lvls) cha 12

Feats: dodge, combat expertise, domain spontaneity

Equipment: Prayer bead of Karma, masterwork heavy shield, a weapon

Spells memorized: Shield of Faith, Magic Vestmentx2, Anyspell [alter self], Anyspell [reduce person], Greater Luminous Armor (BoED)

Preparation: activate Bead of Karma, cast spells

AC:
10 base
+8 (armor) Gr. luminous armor
+3 (enhancement) magic vestment: shirt
+2 (shield) heavy shield
+3 (enhancement) magic vestment: shield
+4 (deflection) shield of faith
+6 (natural) alter self: Troglodyte
+2 (size) reduce person
+1 (dodge) dodge feat
+5 (unamed) combat expertise
+4 (dex)

= 48 / 37 flat-footed / 24 touch
Rass Frostwhisper
10-14-06, 11:09 PM err...have you been reading or skim reading? i said my Crusader was the last one standing, litterly. mage, dead, warblade, dead, rogue warlock, dead crusader 10 hp remaining with 10 str. i only want to show him what a true challenge is like on the players end, you dont seem to realise that this isnt a one off event, not this servere but things like it. he constantly makes them. i just wanted to show him up at his own game.

To be fair, in this posting, you never actually said anyone died, which is causing the confusion. Don't believe me? Read your first post again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 01:27 PM	Hi, I'm reasonably new to the DMing game, my group and I have started a rotating DM system so that we don't get too bored with the current campaign. Recently our own cheese artist was the DM and faced the group against one of his customised monsters. Now usually we can deal, but this was a customised duskblade, and even though our party is above avrage for a group. with an AC of 29 at 8th level, we had to hit a natural 17 or higher to hit him. And as stupid as it was in hindsite our mage cannot do much in the way of damage, we rely on a crusader and a warblade. after a very long draw out fight my Crusader managed to crit and end it. but it wasn't pritty. Anyway, i wish to show him how hard it was, I managed to get the rest of the group to agree to this as well. But the thing is, he is the customiser in the group, and we arn't that flash at making above avrage characters. So I'm asking for your help, could people please tell me how to go about making a fortress of a character. something that no one at level 7 should beable to hit. I know I'm petty, but its hard to go from unbeatable to a corpse. I do not mind if there is no way to hit this thing, i will thorw in some sort of roleplaying aspect to beat it. ***This was copied from the DM help fourms because i was told that charaopt would be a better place for it, please help me i want to beat this cheese artist at his own game. our party consists of a Crusader, Warblade (pure damage), Warlock/Rogue (took the darkness and devilsite invocations, near impossible to see when hiding.) and finally the cheese artiest himself an undead bard who trips. please help me.
GDarius 10-13-06, 01:45 PM	with an AC of 29 at 8th level, we had to hit a natural 17 or higher to hit him. And as stupid as it was in hindsite our mage cannot do much in the way of damage, we rely on a crusader and a warblade. after a very long draw out fight my Crusader managed to crit and end it. but it wasn't pritty. We've went through a similar encounter. The thing is, AC monsters rarely have good Touch AC. A good tactic would probably have been to have your Warblade use Emerald Razor whenever he could, and use Power Attack to your advantage. Likewise, Tripping would probably have been a decent option provided one of your tanks had the foresight to take Improved Trip. So I'm asking for your help, could people please tell me how to go about making a fortress of a character. something that no one at level 7 should beable to hit. I know I'm petty, but its hard to go from unbeatable to a corpse. I do not mind if there is no way to hit this thing, i will thorw in some sort of roleplaying aspect to beat it. If by "Fortress" you mean "High AC", then something as simple as a Swordsage 8 can get up to the 30 mark with the right items and feats. 16 DEX 16 WIS Chain Shirt +2 Ring of Protection +1 Amulet of NA +1 = 24 on its own. If you can min/max stats (18 in DEX & WIS) then it goes up to 26. Add in Combat Expertise for an additional +5 (total 31 AC, 25 touch), and the afore mentioned Emerald Razor to make sure he can still hit something, and that's pretty sweet stuff right there. Possibly throw in a couple of Fighter levels for the Quick Staff style (Complete Warrior) feat for an additional +2 dodge bonus. Not exactly optimal, but every little bit helps, right? Here's the thing. I'm of the opinion that a Fortress character isn't one with just a high AC, but rather one that can keep the fight up for a long time through self healing/buffing and high HP/ Damage Reduction/ Fast Healing. That said, check this build (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9895728&postcount=188) out. It should give you some ideas, at least. If you decide to go with the Crusader option, remember to throw in Stone Power. Nothing says "Fortress" quite like Fast Healing 10, in addition to the healing strikes of Devoted Spirit.
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 01:51 PM	Yes, i agree that crusaders are a very nice class, i've playing once since they came out. and thats a very nice layout so simple yet so potent. we play with a number of house rules....so many its hard to keep track of, if fact i can't even remember why we started some. Like we uped the amount of feats people were taking by making it a 2, 4, 6, 8...ect...ect. Anyway thanks for the ideas, i shall continue to work on this, and as a final note when i said fortress i prictured someone encased in armour, so yes i was thinking like an armour class of 35 by 8th level....if thats even possible.
ravenkith 10-13-06, 02:08 PM	Simply: Make it a good cleric of pelor. SInce you are level 7 and he is taking all of you on alone, I would give him two or three additional levels...let's call it level 10. Make him a deep dwarf. Give him Daylight adaptation. Give him the Sun Domain & the glory domain. Give him mithril full plate. a heavy steel shield. A longsword. Give him Extend spell. Prepare two extended magic vestments. Prepare 1 extended magic weapon, greater. Cast both MVs on the clerics Shield and Armor. Each spell will give you a + 3 to his armor class. Assume a dex of at least 16... 10 + 3 Dex + 8 Full Plate + 2 Shield + 3MV(A) + 3MV(S) = 29 Throw on a Shield of Faith for a + 3 Deflection bonus to take his ac to 32. Buy him an amulet of natural armor + 2 for 8000gp to bring it 34... You can probably get to 40 if you try..but I'm trying to make something playable against. Note: Since he's a dwarf, he gets a stability bonus against ye olde undead tripper. He can also throw down with a righteous might and a divine power to turn himself into your player's worst nightmare. With greater magic weapon on his longsword +2 bonus, and locking gauntlets, it's tough to disarm him too. This guy shows up. You describe him as a pale dwarf who looks vaguely threatening. His shield has a cloth cover on it, held in place by strings that are tied in such a way as to let the cover fall off using a free action to slip the knot loose. He meets them in the road, and nods to them, looking at each, but bids them stop when he gets to ye olde bard. "You allow undead to travel with you? They are the scum of the earth, and by all rights should be wiped out!" he says, stretching... From there, you provoke a fight. They get into a fight. (It's usually pretty darned easy to get into a fight with adventurers :rolleyes: ). They're swinging, you're swinging, bard boys trying to trip...which brings him within 60ft. That's when the dwarf grins, looses the cords on his shield, revealing that it looks like a big old smiling anthropomorphic sun...and is in fact the dwarf's holy symbol. 1 turn undead, using the domain powers of both the sun and glory domains....no more Undead bard (which is just plain wrong), he's dusted, gone, and NOT COMING BACK. At this point, the characters might try to talk to the dwarf, to find out why he attacked them. The dwarf will tell them, and part company peacefully if possible: he was told about the undead and came to destroy it, as any good cleric of pelor should...but it turns out he was told by a fellow name "X Name of Y town", Y being the twon that one of the characters is from, who promptly that character recognizes as having been a suspected member of the reputed assasin's guild. If the party and the dwarf fights on, they find a note giving them similar information among his belongings. Oh look, plot this way ------------> :D The best part about this build is although the dwarf is tough to beat, he's only carrying 1 actual magic item: the amulet of natural armor + 2...everything else he has is mundane...sure, the full plate is really nice, but it ain't magical...and for a tank who dumped dex, it's sub optimal. FOr one who has a high dex it's quite darned good... and if anyone complains about the 'poor' loot, just smile and laugh: cause although the mithril plate is technically worth 10k, they can only sell it for half value :D
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 02:17 PM	thats the kind of thinking i'm looking for....I only have 2 problems with it... 1) when the group started this campaign we agreed that we could not attach or paint or anything else, a holy symbol onto. and 2) RSoP are overpowerd even by my standards...and one of the rules of this campaign is, if a DM can do it the player can do it...and since we don't really want a RSoP in the party its kind of a no go. though its good thinking, easy to adapt too. few more suggestions like this and i'll have a great few sessions.
ravenkith 10-13-06, 02:36 PM	1. At no point does this guy take the Radiant Servant of Pelor prestige class...he's straight cleric. He simply takes the Sun and Glory domains, both of which are under Pelor's normal purview, as per complete divine. 2. His shield isn't painted with his holy symbol...his holy symbol is his shield. The thing about the peloran faith is that the sun is their holy symbol...it's round, can be made out of anything from wood to metal, and wood can be carved and metal can be worked.... It is literally a plus-sized holy symbol with a handle on the back. A gift from a group of giants with whom he brokered a peace treaty, perhaps. However, if you don't want to use the shield Idea, have him take the quickdraw feat and place it in a special sheath on his belt...whatever. It's just there for the suprise factor. That "Oh crud" moment when he realises just how pwned he is about to get.
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 02:43 PM	Now that i like....poor vampire....i thank you...very cool ideas i now can't wait for next session. EDIT I did forget to mention hes playing a changling vampire....so NPC's can't exactly tell hes a vamp untill things get a little close, but these ideas still work for me.
ravenkith 10-13-06, 02:47 PM	Now that i like....poor vampire....i thank you...very cool ideas i now can't wait for next session. He's a vampire? How? I thought you said you were all level 7? A 1st level bard/vampire is considered level 9... (the template has a +8 LA, that is to say, level adjustment)
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 02:51 PM	err another thing i forgot to mention...sorry i keep thinking i'm still in the DM fourms where i explained all this already, we play with house rules, we have converted the vampire into a progression...its prtty bad as well, we removed almost all the good abilities....so its only a 4 LA and hes only got one level in it so far, basicly the only benefit hes got so far is the undead subtype.
ravenkith 10-13-06, 03:15 PM	:yuck: i pity the fool... and you say he's a cheesemonger? :pbbbtt:
Prominence 10-13-06, 03:16 PM	As a 3 HD (ECL 7) undead, a level 6 cleric can dominate or dust him with -no problem-. Any level 6 cleric. His saves probably suck to the point any level 5 wizard can Command Undead him.
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 03:20 PM	well, so far i've only managed to hit 37 AC anyone got any more ideas? that is including combat expertise, dodge, quick staff, +1 fullplate, +1 tower shield, 16 dex and shield of faith plus and amulet of natural armour...any other ideas?
ravenkith 10-13-06, 03:21 PM	Yeah, he's boned...read up on the turning rules: that's all you'll ever need to teach him a lesson: <rebuke> : "Now my slave, tear apart your former allies..."
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 03:23 PM	tear apart? err more like attempt to pin and bite or just trip....thats basicly all hes good for, anyway thanks for your help this should be sweet, we were slack jaw when we saw that AC of 29, can't wait for the reaction of 37+.
Prominence 10-13-06, 03:25 PM	Well, no one mentioned Alter self via Spell domain into Troglodyte for another +6 AC. Divine Spell Power feat can easily add another +2-3 AC with the increased CL. edit: reduce person for another +1 AC if you wanted.
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 03:26 PM	dear god....this is getting out of hand.....what is that 44 AC?
Prominence 10-13-06, 03:27 PM	oh yeah, Divine Shield feat for cha to AC. edit: It's in Complete Warrior I think, standard action 1 turn/rebuke -> cha to AC for HD/2 rounds
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 03:30 PM	which book is the Divine shield feat from?
GDarius 10-13-06, 03:42 PM	well, so far i've only managed to hit 37 AC anyone got any more ideas? that is including combat expertise, dodge, quick staff, +1 fullplate, +1 tower shield, 16 dex and shield of faith plus and amulet of natural armour...any other ideas? Quick Staff is a combat style feat. It only applies if you're wielding a Quarterstaff and use Combat Expertise. This is why I suggested it for the Swordsage. A Cleric would get more mileage out of a shield (and save some feats to boot). Divine Shield is from Complete Warrior, pages 106-108 (it's not three pages long or anything. It starts at the bottom of 106, pg 107 is a full-page picture and the feat is concluded at the top of 108).
PhaedrusXY 10-13-06, 04:20 PM	I'm always amazed when I see things like "we couldn't believe someone had a 29 AC at 8th level". :P I also don't see what you're even angry about. You beat the NPC he sent against you, and you didn't mention anyone in your party dying. What's so bad about actually having a challenging combat once and a while?
Judging Eagle 10-13-06, 06:59 PM	I'm always amazed when I see things like "we couldn't believe someone had a 29 AC at 8th level". :P I also don't see what you're even angry about. You beat the NPC he sent against you, and you didn't mention anyone in your party dying. What's so bad about actually having a challenging combat once and a while? Yeah, I'm with you there. The two most challenging encounters in our last adventure-arc have proved to have taught me the most. After hitting lvl 7 I'm going to go back to the crafting pits and craft my librarian the stuff he needs to hit 35-41 AC. As for 29 AC at lvl 8. You better believe it. My level 6 Archivist was pulling off that kind of AC, he's going to be running at AC 35 from now on, 43 with Sheild of Faith (+3) and Bite of the Wererat (+6). I'm not even intending on being a 'main' or even an 'off' tank anymore. Going to -8 once and dying a second time have only made my character more paranoid, hence his prediliction for defesive gear. If your main tanks don't have well over 25 AC at this level, I dread to think of your parties continued survival.
PhoenixInferno 10-13-06, 07:41 PM	I'm always amazed when I see things like "we couldn't believe someone had a 29 AC at 8th level". :P I also don't see what you're even angry about. You beat the NPC he sent against you, and you didn't mention anyone in your party dying. What's so bad about actually having a challenging combat once and a while?Its all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Or dies. And no one died!
lo_wang_2000 10-13-06, 11:16 PM	err...have you been reading or skim reading? i said my Crusader was the last one standing, litterly. mage, dead, warblade, dead, rogue warlock, dead crusader 10 hp remaining with 10 str. i only want to show him what a true challenge is like on the players end, you dont seem to realise that this isnt a one off event, not this servere but things like it. he constantly makes them. i just wanted to show him up at his own game.
Hanniball 10-14-06, 10:33 PM	off the top of my head: Good Halfling Cleric 8 (Spell domain) Stats (elite array): str 6 dex 16 con 10 int 13 wis 15(+2 lvls) cha 12 Feats: dodge, combat expertise, domain spontaneity Equipment: Prayer bead of Karma, masterwork heavy shield, a weapon Spells memorized: Shield of Faith, Magic Vestmentx2, Anyspell [alter self], Anyspell [reduce person], Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) Preparation: activate Bead of Karma, cast spells AC: 10 base +8 (armor) Gr. luminous armor +3 (enhancement) magic vestment: shirt +2 (shield) heavy shield +3 (enhancement) magic vestment: shield +4 (deflection) shield of faith +6 (natural) alter self: Troglodyte +2 (size) reduce person +1 (dodge) dodge feat +5 (unamed) combat expertise +4 (dex) = 48 / 37 flat-footed / 24 touch
Rass Frostwhisper 10-14-06, 11:09 PM	err...have you been reading or skim reading? i said my Crusader was the last one standing, litterly. mage, dead, warblade, dead, rogue warlock, dead crusader 10 hp remaining with 10 str. i only want to show him what a true challenge is like on the players end, you dont seem to realise that this isnt a one off event, not this servere but things like it. he constantly makes them. i just wanted to show him up at his own game. To be fair, in this posting, you never actually said anyone died, which is causing the confusion. Don't believe me? Read your first post again.