A thought about Extra Slot and Innate Spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

A thought about Extra Slot and Innate Spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vanigo
09-02-06, 04:09 PM Would it be possible to use spell-level boosting effects and Extra Slot to get, say, a 12th level spell slot, then use that slot with Innate Spell to get a high level spell, like, say, Rary's mnemonic enhancer as an at-will SLA? I figure Sanctum Spell, Earth Spell, Snowcasting, and the Eye of Horus Re's radiance class ability should be able to get you a 13th level cold-substituted blistering radiance, but with all that, plus Innate Spell and its prerequisites, it'd be ridiculously feat-intensive, and probably not worth it.
runestar
09-02-06, 10:33 PM Mnemonic enhancer does not stack with itself. Notice in its spell desc, it explicitly states the possible combinations, which limits you to preparing 3rd lv spells. Thus, you would not be able to say, cast enhancer 3 times in a row and combine the slots together to prepare a timestop.:P
Vanigo
09-02-06, 11:25 PM No, but you could, say, prepare a few hundred explosive runes in a day, or cast haste on a small army, or control a huge undead army with command undead, or maybe just go wild with summon monster 3, or, since it doesn't specify that you can only use it to prepare wizard spells (and you need a cleric level to get into Eye of Horus-Re anyway), get as many CLWs as you need... Surprisingly, Innate Spell does let you cast long casting time spells in a standard action, so there's no practical limit to the number of 1-3 level spells you can prepare. Admittedly, it's not the greatest trick in the world, but it's not too shabby, either. And I'm not entirely sure there's no way to combine low-level slots into higher-level ones... There probably isn't, but there might be one I don't know about.
Of course, finding another couple spell levels somewhere for Mordenkainen's lucubration would be that much better...
Tempest Stormwind
09-02-06, 11:28 PM There is a way. It's the Arcane Manipulation feat from Lost Empires of Faerun.

Essentially, it's almost identical to Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved weaving techniques, except far clunkier (as you'd expect from a patched-on ability through a feat instead of a change to the whole system). I seem to recall there were two feats required -- it, and another, depending on which way you were going (building up or breaking down). I could be wrong on that one.
Kadance
09-02-06, 11:38 PM Versatile Spellcaster - RoDr, 101
Let's you use two lower-level spell slots to cast a spell one level higher.
Vanigo
09-03-06, 01:34 AM Ah, cool. But will either of those work with Rary's? Versatile Spellcaster sounds like it's probably only for spontaneous casters.
Tempest Stormwind
09-03-06, 02:10 AM Ah, cool. But will either of those work with Rary's? Versatile Spellcaster sounds like it's probably only for spontaneous casters.Arcane Manipulation is wizard-only. I just found it again.

Posted under Fair Use:ARCANE MANIPULATION

You are learned in the arcane ways of Netheril, where masters of magic once molded and shaped arcane energy to their own will.
Prerequisite: Wizard level 1st
Benefit: When you prepare spells, you can break down up to three existing arcane spell slots into a specified number of lower-level spell slots. (A 0-level spell counts as 1/2 level for this purpose, so a 1st-level spell slot could be broken down into two 0-level spell slots.) The sum of the levels of all the new spell slots must equal the level of the original. The number of spell slots you can create in this manner is otherwise unlimited. Spell slots that you break down into multiple lower-level slots remain that way until the next time you prepare your spells, at which time you can choose to restore your spell slots to normal or break them up again.I was off, it only works going down (as I suspected), essentially letting you get insane stamina on your wizard slots at the cost of high-end power.

Theoretically, a similar feat could be constructed that behaves in reverse, but that would be houseruling.

Do bear in mind if designing such a feat: Arcane Manipulation appears in the same book that brought us Greenbound Summoning, Craft Scepter, Channel Charge (essentially Master Wand, Master Staff, and so on all in one non-epic feat) and Familiar Concentration. So it's obvious the bar they used to measure their feat power is a bit higher than usual, even for Faerun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vanigo 09-02-06, 04:09 PM	Would it be possible to use spell-level boosting effects and Extra Slot to get, say, a 12th level spell slot, then use that slot with Innate Spell to get a high level spell, like, say, Rary's mnemonic enhancer as an at-will SLA? I figure Sanctum Spell, Earth Spell, Snowcasting, and the Eye of Horus Re's radiance class ability should be able to get you a 13th level cold-substituted blistering radiance, but with all that, plus Innate Spell and its prerequisites, it'd be ridiculously feat-intensive, and probably not worth it.
runestar 09-02-06, 10:33 PM	Mnemonic enhancer does not stack with itself. Notice in its spell desc, it explicitly states the possible combinations, which limits you to preparing 3rd lv spells. Thus, you would not be able to say, cast enhancer 3 times in a row and combine the slots together to prepare a timestop.:P
Vanigo 09-02-06, 11:25 PM	No, but you could, say, prepare a few hundred explosive runes in a day, or cast haste on a small army, or control a huge undead army with command undead, or maybe just go wild with summon monster 3, or, since it doesn't specify that you can only use it to prepare wizard spells (and you need a cleric level to get into Eye of Horus-Re anyway), get as many CLWs as you need... Surprisingly, Innate Spell does let you cast long casting time spells in a standard action, so there's no practical limit to the number of 1-3 level spells you can prepare. Admittedly, it's not the greatest trick in the world, but it's not too shabby, either. And I'm not entirely sure there's no way to combine low-level slots into higher-level ones... There probably isn't, but there might be one I don't know about. Of course, finding another couple spell levels somewhere for Mordenkainen's lucubration would be that much better...
Tempest Stormwind 09-02-06, 11:28 PM	There is a way. It's the Arcane Manipulation feat from Lost Empires of Faerun. Essentially, it's almost identical to Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved weaving techniques, except far clunkier (as you'd expect from a patched-on ability through a feat instead of a change to the whole system). I seem to recall there were two feats required -- it, and another, depending on which way you were going (building up or breaking down). I could be wrong on that one.
Kadance 09-02-06, 11:38 PM	Versatile Spellcaster - RoDr, 101 Let's you use two lower-level spell slots to cast a spell one level higher.
Vanigo 09-03-06, 01:34 AM	Ah, cool. But will either of those work with Rary's? Versatile Spellcaster sounds like it's probably only for spontaneous casters.
Tempest Stormwind 09-03-06, 02:10 AM	Ah, cool. But will either of those work with Rary's? Versatile Spellcaster sounds like it's probably only for spontaneous casters.Arcane Manipulation is wizard-only. I just found it again. Posted under Fair Use:ARCANE MANIPULATION You are learned in the arcane ways of Netheril, where masters of magic once molded and shaped arcane energy to their own will. Prerequisite: Wizard level 1st Benefit: When you prepare spells, you can break down up to three existing arcane spell slots into a specified number of lower-level spell slots. (A 0-level spell counts as 1/2 level for this purpose, so a 1st-level spell slot could be broken down into two 0-level spell slots.) The sum of the levels of all the new spell slots must equal the level of the original. The number of spell slots you can create in this manner is otherwise unlimited. Spell slots that you break down into multiple lower-level slots remain that way until the next time you prepare your spells, at which time you can choose to restore your spell slots to normal or break them up again.I was off, it only works going down (as I suspected), essentially letting you get insane stamina on your wizard slots at the cost of high-end power. Theoretically, a similar feat could be constructed that behaves in reverse, but that would be houseruling. Do bear in mind if designing such a feat: Arcane Manipulation appears in the same book that brought us Greenbound Summoning, Craft Scepter, Channel Charge (essentially Master Wand, Master Staff, and so on all in one non-epic feat) and Familiar Concentration. So it's obvious the bar they used to measure their feat power is a bit higher than usual, even for Faerun.