A thousand faces ^^ [Archive] - Wizards Community

A thousand faces ^^ [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 10:47 AM For a couple of small adventures and one larger, I'm playing the party face/catburglar. The idea is that he's supposed to be anyone/everyone or at least play at being them.

I made the build some time ago (I think I even posted it), but finally, there's an opening where I can play this char. We're starting at level 10, going upwards 'til 20.

Build: Human Paragon 3/Changeling Rogue 1/Marshal 1/Chameleon 10/Cabinet Trickster 5

Paragon for skill flexibility, stats and that extra feat. Changeling rogue for more skillpoints and ability to take 10 on some of the social skills (it's like WOW!) Marshal for the group synergy, enhancing social skills and later on combat skills (See lvl 6). The rest is self-explanatory ^^

What I need some assistance with is the feats. How do you select feats for someone that can be anyone? Feel free change and modify as you wish. Move around a few levels as well, if needed.

Oh, "Additional Aura" is a homebrew feat I was allowed to use, grants me one minor aura for the marshal class. And I took Motivate dexterity. It has no requirements except for Marshal 1.

Leadership is the representation of a network of people, allies and such. Much like a guild or criminal network, it's all the same. ^^

1 Able learner
2
3
5 Skill focus: Diplomacy (Marshal bonus feat)
6 Additional Aura: Motivate Dexterity
7 (chameleon floating feat)
9
12 Persona Immersion
15 Leadership (Cohort: Succubus)
17 (cabinet bonus feat) Racial emulation
18
19 (cabinet bonus feat) Quick Change (?)

If someone has the Complete Scoundrel, and there's something useful, do tell and I'll try my hardest to get a hold of the book. I have access to most books, and a few dragon magazines, just say where you're taking the material from, so I can double check it and show my DM if necessary.

Thanks for reading and thanks on beforehand.

Thaum.
FriendlyFrog
01-10-07, 10:54 AM Be sure to start with that one level of Rogue, otherwise you'll get 24 skill points less!
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 10:56 AM Ah yes... I was thinking of taking the human paragon first for a more customizable skill list. I was thinking 1-20, not 10-20 ^^

[Edit] Thanks btw:)
Tweedledope
01-10-07, 12:48 PM Funny story...

How are you qualifying for Human Paragon as a Changeling? Especially seeing as how Racial Emulation comes in your build at 17th level.
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 02:47 PM Easy.

In races of destiny, there's this sidebar around the featsection that talks about half-human and Humanlike races. Races that descended from humans and elves/orcs and say outsiders or such(Think Aasimar and tiefling etc). They qualify for any classes, feats, prestigeclasses etc that a human would be able to take. Human Paragons only requisite is that you're human.

They don't specifically mention Changelings and Shifters. But then again, they exist in an eberron book, and RoD is not an eberron book (and that's why they're not mentioned), but within reason they are qualified races, as they're lineage looks exactly like the planetouched but with different non-human ancestors.

If the DM disallows the variant, you can represent it via the half-human feat.
Fortunatly for me my DM allowed it. I even mentioned it to the boards, not even one spoke up against it. So, it seems reasonable. It just looks very very wrong. Does it not? :)

And Racial Emulation is much too restricting. Lose all class-abilities when I'm impersonating something else than a human? Bleh! ^^

[Edit] Spelling and stuff.
Daeger
01-10-07, 02:54 PM Easy.

In races of destiny, there's this sidebar around the featsection that talks about half-human and Humanlike races. Races that descended from humans and elves/orcs and say outsiders or such(Think Aasimar and tiefling etc). They qualify for any classes, feats, prestigeclasses etc that a human would be able to take. Human Paragons only requisite is that you're human.

They don't specifically mention Changelings and Shifters. But then again, they exist in an eberron book, and RoD is not an eberron book (and that's why they're not mentioned), but within reason they are qualified races, as they're lineage looks exactly like the planetouched but with different non-human ancestors.

If the DM disallows the variant, you can represent it via the half-human feat.
Fortunatly for me my DM allowed it. I even mentioned it to the boards, not even one spoke up against it. So, it seems reasonable. It just looks very very wrong. Does it not? :)

And Racial Emulation is much too restricting. Lose all class-abilities when I'm impersonating something else than a human? Bleh! ^^

[Edit] Spelling and stuff.
I'm curious as to where this particular side-bar is, as I've never heard of anything of the sort.

Also, level(s?) of Half-Elf Paragon have to be taken for a half-elf to qualify for Human Paragon, so that kind of contradicts your logic there.
Daeger
01-10-07, 02:57 PM Okay. I found the sidebar, it's on page 150.

This is actually a suggested house rule, much like sidebars in Unearthed Arcana and Dungeon Master's Guide. Unless your GM allows this, you will have to take the Human Heritage feat to qualify for Human Paragon. Unfortunately, it seems like taking this with Able Learner is a tad impossible, unless you used the highly questionable flaw system.

I fail to see why you don't just take the level of rogue first. You do realize the Changeling rogue level gets 10+INT skill points, right? That's a lot of extra skill points.
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 02:59 PM Page 150, Races of destiny.

And yes, I agree, it seems contradicting considering the other paragon classes.

But, Urban Arcana does not take into account the "human subtype" which changes alot of things. It's sort of one book allowing something else, that shouldn't be possible. Loophole?
Daeger
01-10-07, 03:02 PM Page 150, Races of destiny.

And yes, I agree, it seems contradicting considering the other paragon classes.

But, Urban Arcana does not take into account the "human subtype" which changes alot of things. It's sort of one book allowing something else, that shouldn't be possible. Loophole?
That's just it though. Changelings don't have the 'human subtype' by default, and neither do the half-elves. Changelings have the shapechanger subtype.

It is, however, reasonable to say that changelings should be able to qualify for the Chameleon, as the requirement is Doppelganger or Human - and Changeling is pretty much half of both of those. It fits, and while it's not perfectly RAW, it's acceptable to treat it as such.
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 03:04 PM Easy.

In races of destiny, there's this sidebar around the featsection that talks about half-human and Humanlike races. Races that descended from humans and elves/orcs and say outsiders or such(Think Aasimar and tiefling etc). They qualify for any classes, feats, prestigeclasses etc that a human would be able to take. Human Paragons only requisite is that you're human.

They don't specifically mention Changelings and Shifters. But then again, they exist in an eberron book, and RoD is not an eberron book (and that's why they're not mentioned), but within reason they are qualified races, as they're lineage looks exactly like the planetouched but with different non-human ancestors.

If the DM disallows the variant, you can represent it via the half-human feat.
Fortunatly for me my DM allowed it. I even mentioned it to the boards, not even one spoke up against it. So, it seems reasonable. It just looks very very wrong. Does it not? :)

And Racial Emulation is much too restricting. Lose all class-abilities when I'm impersonating something else than a human? Bleh! ^^

[Edit] Spelling and stuff.

No need to seem rude, but I answered that. I just didn't update the post about it. Here it is anyways.

Build: Changeling Rogue 1/Human Paragon 3/Marshal 1/Chameleon 10/Cabinet Trickster 5

1 Able learner
3
3
5 Skill focus: Diplomacy (Marshal bonus feat)
6 Additional Aura: Motivate Dexterity
7 (chameleon floating feat)
9
12 Persona Immersion
15 Leadership (Cohort: Succubus)
17 (cabinet bonus feat) Racial emulation
18
19 (cabinet bonus feat) Quick Change (?)
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 03:08 PM Page 116 RoD (Chameleon text, under Adaption) says Able Learner and the Chameleon PrC can be used for Changelings if you run an eberron game.

Now it's not an eberron setting, just material used from there.
Daeger
01-10-07, 03:11 PM By the way you responded, it seemed like you were talking as if this were default by the rules. My mistake.

And I never noticed the adaption column. Thanks for pointing that out.
Thaumaturgist
01-10-07, 03:15 PM Yea, I had loads of trouble finding that one. ^^
Nomad_the_Odd
01-10-07, 03:35 PM I don't have all the books available, but if your goal is to be anone and everyone, or at least anyone that matters, change the cohort to a doppelganger, probably rogue (extras in your little plays), wizard, or cleric with trickery, got you a little extra help. Next, make sure that your Use Magic Device scores are maxed early. Buy a scroll of tongues, a scroll of arcane sight, a darkvision scroll, and a couple of permenancy scrolls. If you can pull them all off (borrow a cloak of charisma, have the party casters buff you with whatever they got), you have darkvision (gets rid of the pesky "what kind of dwarf has night blindness" question), speak whatever laguages you might need, and arcane sight lets you spot anyone who could magically spot you before they can, hopefully. Also, a medallion of thoughts can give you an idea of who is suspicious, and what they are looking for. Disguise self will cover the glowing blue eyes. As for feats, decietful and persuasive com to mind. If you get the scrolls to cast the right spells, and using UA (I assume you are), take Breadth of knowledge. You want to have the knowledges for anyone, and this lets you try to fake it.
Thaumaturgist
01-11-07, 09:19 AM Cabinet trickster gives me detect thoughts. Changeling already have the disguise/alter self stuff, and gets even better with Cabinet trickster.

Darkvision you say? I'll try to solve that problem. Maybe with items or something.

I chose the succubus for a number of reasons really. A fair amount of SLA's, and then it can go into Fiend of possession.. which is RAWR! Not to mention she can ride along inside me and grant me a +4 bonus to a stat. ^^

Oh yeh, Doppelgangers are way to shifty for my taste. But it was a good suggestion.

[Edit] Breadth of knowledge is something I'm definitly going to check up on!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 10:47 AM	For a couple of small adventures and one larger, I'm playing the party face/catburglar. The idea is that he's supposed to be anyone/everyone or at least play at being them. I made the build some time ago (I think I even posted it), but finally, there's an opening where I can play this char. We're starting at level 10, going upwards 'til 20. Build: Human Paragon 3/Changeling Rogue 1/Marshal 1/Chameleon 10/Cabinet Trickster 5 Paragon for skill flexibility, stats and that extra feat. Changeling rogue for more skillpoints and ability to take 10 on some of the social skills (it's like WOW!) Marshal for the group synergy, enhancing social skills and later on combat skills (See lvl 6). The rest is self-explanatory ^^ What I need some assistance with is the feats. How do you select feats for someone that can be anyone? Feel free change and modify as you wish. Move around a few levels as well, if needed. Oh, "Additional Aura" is a homebrew feat I was allowed to use, grants me one minor aura for the marshal class. And I took Motivate dexterity. It has no requirements except for Marshal 1. Leadership is the representation of a network of people, allies and such. Much like a guild or criminal network, it's all the same. ^^ 1 Able learner 2 3 5 Skill focus: Diplomacy (Marshal bonus feat) 6 Additional Aura: Motivate Dexterity 7 (chameleon floating feat) 9 12 Persona Immersion 15 Leadership (Cohort: Succubus) 17 (cabinet bonus feat) Racial emulation 18 19 (cabinet bonus feat) Quick Change (?) If someone has the Complete Scoundrel, and there's something useful, do tell and I'll try my hardest to get a hold of the book. I have access to most books, and a few dragon magazines, just say where you're taking the material from, so I can double check it and show my DM if necessary. Thanks for reading and thanks on beforehand. Thaum.
FriendlyFrog 01-10-07, 10:54 AM	Be sure to start with that one level of Rogue, otherwise you'll get 24 skill points less!
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 10:56 AM	Ah yes... I was thinking of taking the human paragon first for a more customizable skill list. I was thinking 1-20, not 10-20 ^^ [Edit] Thanks btw:)
Tweedledope 01-10-07, 12:48 PM	Funny story... How are you qualifying for Human Paragon as a Changeling? Especially seeing as how Racial Emulation comes in your build at 17th level.
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 02:47 PM	Easy. In races of destiny, there's this sidebar around the featsection that talks about half-human and Humanlike races. Races that descended from humans and elves/orcs and say outsiders or such(Think Aasimar and tiefling etc). They qualify for any classes, feats, prestigeclasses etc that a human would be able to take. Human Paragons only requisite is that you're human. They don't specifically mention Changelings and Shifters. But then again, they exist in an eberron book, and RoD is not an eberron book (and that's why they're not mentioned), but within reason they are qualified races, as they're lineage looks exactly like the planetouched but with different non-human ancestors. If the DM disallows the variant, you can represent it via the half-human feat. Fortunatly for me my DM allowed it. I even mentioned it to the boards, not even one spoke up against it. So, it seems reasonable. It just looks very very wrong. Does it not? :) And Racial Emulation is much too restricting. Lose all class-abilities when I'm impersonating something else than a human? Bleh! ^^ [Edit] Spelling and stuff.
Daeger 01-10-07, 02:54 PM	Easy. In races of destiny, there's this sidebar around the featsection that talks about half-human and Humanlike races. Races that descended from humans and elves/orcs and say outsiders or such(Think Aasimar and tiefling etc). They qualify for any classes, feats, prestigeclasses etc that a human would be able to take. Human Paragons only requisite is that you're human. They don't specifically mention Changelings and Shifters. But then again, they exist in an eberron book, and RoD is not an eberron book (and that's why they're not mentioned), but within reason they are qualified races, as they're lineage looks exactly like the planetouched but with different non-human ancestors. If the DM disallows the variant, you can represent it via the half-human feat. Fortunatly for me my DM allowed it. I even mentioned it to the boards, not even one spoke up against it. So, it seems reasonable. It just looks very very wrong. Does it not? :) And Racial Emulation is much too restricting. Lose all class-abilities when I'm impersonating something else than a human? Bleh! ^^ [Edit] Spelling and stuff. I'm curious as to where this particular side-bar is, as I've never heard of anything of the sort. Also, level(s?) of Half-Elf Paragon have to be taken for a half-elf to qualify for Human Paragon, so that kind of contradicts your logic there.
Daeger 01-10-07, 02:57 PM	Okay. I found the sidebar, it's on page 150. This is actually a suggested house rule, much like sidebars in Unearthed Arcana and Dungeon Master's Guide. Unless your GM allows this, you will have to take the Human Heritage feat to qualify for Human Paragon. Unfortunately, it seems like taking this with Able Learner is a tad impossible, unless you used the highly questionable flaw system. I fail to see why you don't just take the level of rogue first. You do realize the Changeling rogue level gets 10+INT skill points, right? That's a lot of extra skill points.
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 02:59 PM	Page 150, Races of destiny. And yes, I agree, it seems contradicting considering the other paragon classes. But, Urban Arcana does not take into account the "human subtype" which changes alot of things. It's sort of one book allowing something else, that shouldn't be possible. Loophole?
Daeger 01-10-07, 03:02 PM	Page 150, Races of destiny. And yes, I agree, it seems contradicting considering the other paragon classes. But, Urban Arcana does not take into account the "human subtype" which changes alot of things. It's sort of one book allowing something else, that shouldn't be possible. Loophole? That's just it though. Changelings don't have the 'human subtype' by default, and neither do the half-elves. Changelings have the shapechanger subtype. It is, however, reasonable to say that changelings should be able to qualify for the Chameleon, as the requirement is Doppelganger or Human - and Changeling is pretty much half of both of those. It fits, and while it's not perfectly RAW, it's acceptable to treat it as such.
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 03:04 PM	Easy. In races of destiny, there's this sidebar around the featsection that talks about half-human and Humanlike races. Races that descended from humans and elves/orcs and say outsiders or such(Think Aasimar and tiefling etc). They qualify for any classes, feats, prestigeclasses etc that a human would be able to take. Human Paragons only requisite is that you're human. They don't specifically mention Changelings and Shifters. But then again, they exist in an eberron book, and RoD is not an eberron book (and that's why they're not mentioned), but within reason they are qualified races, as they're lineage looks exactly like the planetouched but with different non-human ancestors. If the DM disallows the variant, you can represent it via the half-human feat. Fortunatly for me my DM allowed it. I even mentioned it to the boards, not even one spoke up against it. So, it seems reasonable. It just looks very very wrong. Does it not? :) And Racial Emulation is much too restricting. Lose all class-abilities when I'm impersonating something else than a human? Bleh! ^^ [Edit] Spelling and stuff. No need to seem rude, but I answered that. I just didn't update the post about it. Here it is anyways. Build: Changeling Rogue 1/Human Paragon 3/Marshal 1/Chameleon 10/Cabinet Trickster 5 1 Able learner 3 3 5 Skill focus: Diplomacy (Marshal bonus feat) 6 Additional Aura: Motivate Dexterity 7 (chameleon floating feat) 9 12 Persona Immersion 15 Leadership (Cohort: Succubus) 17 (cabinet bonus feat) Racial emulation 18 19 (cabinet bonus feat) Quick Change (?)
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 03:08 PM	Page 116 RoD (Chameleon text, under Adaption) says Able Learner and the Chameleon PrC can be used for Changelings if you run an eberron game. Now it's not an eberron setting, just material used from there.
Daeger 01-10-07, 03:11 PM	By the way you responded, it seemed like you were talking as if this were default by the rules. My mistake. And I never noticed the adaption column. Thanks for pointing that out.
Thaumaturgist 01-10-07, 03:15 PM	Yea, I had loads of trouble finding that one. ^^
Nomad_the_Odd 01-10-07, 03:35 PM	I don't have all the books available, but if your goal is to be anone and everyone, or at least anyone that matters, change the cohort to a doppelganger, probably rogue (extras in your little plays), wizard, or cleric with trickery, got you a little extra help. Next, make sure that your Use Magic Device scores are maxed early. Buy a scroll of tongues, a scroll of arcane sight, a darkvision scroll, and a couple of permenancy scrolls. If you can pull them all off (borrow a cloak of charisma, have the party casters buff you with whatever they got), you have darkvision (gets rid of the pesky "what kind of dwarf has night blindness" question), speak whatever laguages you might need, and arcane sight lets you spot anyone who could magically spot you before they can, hopefully. Also, a medallion of thoughts can give you an idea of who is suspicious, and what they are looking for. Disguise self will cover the glowing blue eyes. As for feats, decietful and persuasive com to mind. If you get the scrolls to cast the right spells, and using UA (I assume you are), take Breadth of knowledge. You want to have the knowledges for anyone, and this lets you try to fake it.
Thaumaturgist 01-11-07, 09:19 AM	Cabinet trickster gives me detect thoughts. Changeling already have the disguise/alter self stuff, and gets even better with Cabinet trickster. Darkvision you say? I'll try to solve that problem. Maybe with items or something. I chose the succubus for a number of reasons really. A fair amount of SLA's, and then it can go into Fiend of possession.. which is RAWR! Not to mention she can ride along inside me and grant me a +4 bonus to a stat. ^^ Oh yeh, Doppelgangers are way to shifty for my taste. But it was a good suggestion. [Edit] Breadth of knowledge is something I'm definitly going to check up on!