Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jackelope King 10-18-04, 12:24 PM	Conjure ice beast is one of those spell chains that's just sort of "meh". It's got neat flavor and is a cool little flair for a cold-themed caster, but otherwise summon monster spells are just better. Except for one thing: conjure ice beast is a handy-little save or die spell that requires a reflex save to avoid. I'm talking about the engulf ability that an ice beast can have. It doesn't look like much at first, but it has a few nice qualities which can be abused quite easily. 1. The save DC is based on the strength modifier of the conjured creature, and it's pretty easy to get that score pretty high, especially if you use non-standard summoned creatures. 2. The save DC is based on the hit dice of the conjured creature, which while standard allows you to conjure a big meaty creature. And if you start using it to summon creatures off the list... whoo-boy. 3. It's a reflex save, the most overlooked save in the game. Traditionally reflex saves are only good to avoid damage, which is secondary to the save or die fortitude or will saves. No primary caster ('cept the bard) is going to have a very impressive reflex save, which is nice because... 4. If the enemy fails their save, the ice beast is considered to be pinning them automatically. No fussing around with a grapple check, no attack of opportunity, no nothing. You're pinned, end of story. Don't have still spell? Sucks to be you then. And while you're pinned... 5. The ice beast can drown any creature which it has engulfed. Nice. What's more, while drowning you aren't exactly likely to be able to "speak clearly in a strong voice", so no spells with verbal components. No silent spell? Poor fella'... 6. If you want to escape, you have to make an opposed grapple check or an escape artist check. And if you do, it reduces the number of rounds you can hold your breath. Say hello to my old friend the constitution check! A caster will probably have a decent constitution score, but nothing outrageous. If a caster tries to escape from being engulfed every round, he'll start drowning in about 5 to 8 rounds, requiring an ever-increasing constitution check to stay alive. 7. If you happen to have silent spell and still spell, you still need to pass a concentration check just to cast a spell (assuming you were holding the material components). DC 20 for being grappled... not terrible but not great either. A nice little but of fun for lower-level casters. 8. It's a special ability, so no spell resistance for the caster either. Good ol' conjuration, always getting around that annoying spell resistance ;) Conjure ice beast gives you a creature from the summon monster or summon nature's ally list of the appropriate level with the ice beast template applied. Let's use conjure ice beast IX to summon up an elder earth elemental. The elder ice beast earth elemental (let's call him Frosty) has a reflex save DC for his engulf ability is 10 + 12 (1/2 of 24 HD) + 11 (strength) modifier for a decent DC 33 reflex save. Not many casters can pull that off. And do you want to break out? He's got a +37 grapple check modifier. Good luck. We can do better, though. Slap a quickened bull's strength on Frosty to push his save DC to 35 and his grapple check to +39. That's just the tip of the iceberg too. There's probably plenty of other ways to boost Frosty... at the moment I'm just a bit lazy in terms of looking them up. If you decide to be a cold-themed caster, investing in feats like snowcasting are nice, since they let Frosty last longer. It's cheap, it's easy, it's fun. Go ahead and engulf that annoying mage today... it'll be real fun. The only thing lacking is the range, but even Frosty can close pretty quick to gobble up that mean old mage. Enjoy!
Aceon 10-18-04, 12:54 PM	I like it! Very nice! The great thing about little tricks like these is that if there is someone smart enough, there is always another little rick to escape it. Good for you the DM usually has too much to think about to come up with the escape plan. Which is great for when the DM does something like this to you! Here is how to escape: 1st lvl spell: Protection from evil If you are casting 9th lvl spells I assume then your enemy mage is of a similar level? He can have that persistant or even Permanent. One thing I resolved to do after the last time I got grappled (and nearly killed) was to invest in a wand of protection from evil and keep it in my Handy Haversack so it will always be available to me if I want it. (Wand = no concentration check, no loss of spell, no attack of oppt'y and specifically ruled to be usable while being grappled. Of course, if you are pinned, then you are screwed...but then I do have a trusty Coure eladrin sidekick who could use the wand too. Also, the Travel domain makes grappling useless against a Cleric. Also, Grease is a very nice and usefull thing for an ally or cohort to have (+10 Escape Artist or to escape a grapple) Enlarge person will help too.
nihility 10-18-04, 01:07 PM	Also, the Travel domain makes grappling useless against a Cleric. No, it doesn't. From the SRD: TRAVEL DOMAIN Granted Powers: For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds). Emphasis mine. Since grappling, pinning, and the like are not magical effects, the travel domain's power is useless against them.
Aceon 10-18-04, 01:37 PM	I see your point. I had never thought of it that way. Still, it is pretty grey. Also, I have never seen even the stingiest DM argue it that way. It is a power. It emulates Freedom of Movement. It is not that complicated. I don't see anything that disputes the basic fact of: "as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement." I don't see any reason to read this to mean that it only applies vs. magical restrictions on movement. If you are affected by Freedom of Movement you can automatically escape any grapple. In addition it automatically frees you from the effects of any magic restrictions on movement and even mundane ones like moving in water or grappling. But the main benefit of the spell is as a counter to magical impediments to movement. Hence the brief mention in the Travel Domain power description: TRAVEL DOMAIN Granted Powers: For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds).
nihility 10-18-04, 03:15 PM	I see your point. I had never thought of it that way. Still, it is pretty grey. Also, I have never seen even the stingiest DM argue it that way. It is a power. It emulates Freedom of Movement. It is not that complicated. I don't see anything that disputes the basic fact of: "as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement." I don't see any reason to read this to mean that it only applies vs. magical restrictions on movement. The power is explicitly restricted to "magical effects that impede movement." This is not only not a grey area, it's perfectly black and white. The only way I could see using the travel domain power to escape a grapple is if the grapple was the result of a spell, such as Evard's Black Tentacles or something similar, or if you were being simultaneously affected by a movement-restricting spell and a grappling creature. I think the first case is straightforward, while the second requires your DM to buy some sort of triggering argument, where you claim that being affected by some sort of magical restriction actually causes Freedom of Movement to be cast on you, thus allowing you to escape the grapple. I think the latter is pretty far from the RAW. If your DM lets you freely apply the domain power to mundane grapples, more power to you. However, this sentence is pretty clear to me: "For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement." Ignoring bit that restricts the benefit to magical effects that impede movement goes against the RAW, and is essentially a house rule. It doesn't say "act normally regardless of effects that impede movement;" instead, it clearly specifies "magical effects." Edit: regarding DMs... every DM and group I have played with has restricted it to magical effects. Perhaps your "stingiest DM" was more generous than you thought? Or perhaps I am laboring under a great multitude of troll-like villains...
Jackelope King 10-18-04, 03:36 PM	Protection from evil won't do a thing for the unfortunate caster. Protection from evil wards you against evil creatures and summoned creatures. Frosty is neither of these things, since conjure ice beast is a conjuration spell with the creation subtype. You're not summoning a creature or calling him to you: you're creating a new creature on the spot. The ice beast is basically a construct and is always neutral, so you won't even get a bonus to your reflex save. Freedom of movement might get around it (depending on whether or not you can get the spell off or if derivative powers based on the spell work as such), but that's why you save something else for your friend the cleric with the travel domain... like shivering touch :D
Jackelope King 10-19-04, 12:38 PM	Another interesting point: it is argueable whether or not an ally could target you with a spell like grease to make a quick escape, since you are engulfed inside a giant monster made of ice. And if they can target you, so can the guy who stuck you in there in the first place, and being held immobile and helpless isn't where I want to be when he starts unloading the rest of his spells...