Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IceFractal 09-24-05, 04:48 AM	I've got a challenge for the CO board at large, which may actually be so difficult as to be impossible. However, it doesn't hurt to try. The challenge is simple - get at least 9 levels (preferably all 10) of Beholder Mage pre-epic. If that's impossible, just try to get as many levels of it as you can. The only rule is: Pun-pun doesn't count. Yes, he could almost certainly either qualify for the class or simply steal it's abilities via Illithid Savant, but that's pretty irrelevent as he already has infinite spellcasting ability already. Ready, set, go! :behold:
Nightspirit 09-24-05, 08:18 AM	elan wizard/sorcerer 10 with a scroll of PaO can do the trick...he permanently become a beholder and then, enter the beholder mage PrC
IceFractal 09-24-05, 03:33 PM	Does this count as truly being a Beholder for all purposes? I don't think Polymorph would, even if it was permanent, but PaO does give the Int score, so that indicates a closer match. However - does it give you all the abilities of the creature? Because otherwise, it might be hard to claim that you could take a class based around using those abilities.
carnivore 09-24-05, 03:39 PM	notice...provided the Elan was smarter than the average Beholder: Polymorph Any Object Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level Duration: See text Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text Spell Resistance: Yes (object) This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines. Changed Subject Is: Increase to Duration Factor1 Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5 Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2 Same size +2 Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2 Same or lower Intelligence +2 1 Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table. Duration Factor Duration Example 0 20 minutes Pebble to human 2 1 hour Marionette to human 4 3 hours Human to marionette 5 12 hours Lizard to manticore 6 2 days Sheep to wool coat 7 1 week Shrew to manticore 9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form. If the original form didn’t have a Wisdom or Charisma score, it gains those scores as appropriate for the new form. Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force. A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren’t affected by this spell. This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures. This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud. Arcane Material Component: Mercury, gum arabic, and smoke. also: ELANS -2 Charisma Aberration: Elans are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person. Medium: As Medium creatures, elans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Elan base land speed is 30 feet. Elans (unlike most aberrations) do not have darkvision. Naturally Psionic: Elans gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class. Resistance (Su): Elans can use psionic energy to increase their resistance to various forms of attack. As an immediate action, an elan can spend 1 power point to gain a +4 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next action. Resilience (Su): When an elan takes damage, she can spend power points to reduce its severity. As an immediate action, she can reduce the damage she is about to take by 2 hit points for every 1 power point she spends. Repletion (Su): An elan can sustain her body without need of food or water. If she spends 1 power point, an elan does not need to eat or drink for 24 hours. Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). Elans’ past lives expose them to wide ranges of language. Favored Class: Psion. Level Adjustment: +0. in this case it would be a Beholder in ALL Ways :D
Merlock231 09-24-05, 03:58 PM	I don't have my books in front of me, but doesn't the Beholder Mage PrC requiring giving up your eye rays (1 per level)? And could you still therefore do that if you didn't have eye rays? Because I was under the impression that aside from mental stats and duration, PaO transforms were like Polymorph (as said in spell description) and thus wouldn't get you eye rays. I don't know how much this matters. Furthermore, one has to decide if Elans are truly in the same "class" as beholders in order for this to be permanent. True they are both the same type (aberration), which depending on interpretation, may be fine. After all, dogs and humans are both mammals (same class) and they aren't even the same type. Then again, would a lizardfolk and human count as same class? They aren't both mammals, but do share a type. I only ask because I don't quite know what class beholders and elans are. Beholders aren't mammals, as they don't give milk (for starters). However elans, contrary to what I was thinking when I first started this response, probably aren't mammals either. I dunno... if I remember right they're humans when born (mammalian) but then imbued with some energy ritual thingy that makes them a completely new race. Thus, if they even can have kids, it doesn't sound like they'd be of the same race, which probably discounts them as mammals too. *Sigh* I'll stop rambling now. I no longer like biology. Argh.
carnivore 09-24-05, 04:15 PM	notice... Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2 class is showing the difference between....living moving creatures,plant(plant-like) living things, inorganic non-living things,etc.... thus Elans and Beholders are in the same class and they are completely changed including eye rays.....notice This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another for more..look here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040511a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040518a http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a specifically ,...here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040601a :D
IceFractal 09-25-05, 02:56 AM	The duration isn't the issue, as you could even craft an item which gave the benefits continuously. The real issue is, as Merlock mentioned, whether you can enter a prestige class that requires you to be a true Beholder and it's abilities replace the natural Beholder ones, if you don't have those natural Beholder abilities.
X-Codes 09-25-05, 03:08 AM	If only it weren't true beholder, then I could qualify for it with a level 4 bard!
Nightspirit 09-25-05, 05:40 AM	The duration isn't the issue, as you could even craft an item which gave the benefits continuously. The real issue is, as Merlock mentioned, whether you can enter a prestige class that requires you to be a true Beholder and it's abilities replace the natural Beholder ones, if you don't have those natural Beholder abilities. I think that assume supernatural ability can help the wizard in this way :D