A VERY unusual warrior-type. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A VERY unusual warrior-type. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Timespike
10-28-06, 11:55 PM This was originally my idea fo the new CO contest, but I have game tomorrow and dinner with family afterwards, so I'm basically a bit too short on time to continue. Anyway, I came up with the idea of an adaptable warrior, changeable with the environment and able to alter himself to he situation, while still a steadfast opponent of evil. He'd also be a bit of an outcast, for reasons that will be apparent when you read the build.

There's a lot going on in this build, but I find that I still really like it, though I'd be hard-pressed to explain exactly why.

Sadrathen the Exalted Outcast
Race: Killoren

Attribute Distribution:
STR 18 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 13 CHA 18 (Level 1)
STR 18 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 14 CHA 22 (Level 20)

Level 1 Binder 1 [Nymph's Kiss]
Level 2 Binder 2
Level 3 Binder 3 [Expel Visage]
Level 4 Paladin 1 {+1 WIS}
Level 5 Paladin 2
Level 6 Paladin 3 [Martial Study: Foehammer]
Level 7 Paladin 4
Level 8 Binder 4 [Improved Binding] {+1 CHA}
Level 9 Binder 5 [Weapon Focus: Longsword]
Level 10 Knight of the Sacred Seal 1
Level 11 Knight of the Sacred Seal 2
Level 12 Knight of the Sacred Seal 3 [Martial Stance: Martial Spirit] {+1 CHA}
Level 13 Knight of the Sacred Seal 4
Level 14 Knight of the Sacred Seal 5
Level 15 Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 [Power Attack]
Level 16 Ruby Knight Vindicator 2 {+1 CHA}
Level 17 Ruby Knight Vindicator 3
Level 18 Ruby Knight Vindicator 4 [Divine Might]
Level 19 Ruby Knight Vindicator 5
Level 20 Ruby Knight Vindicator 6 {+1 CHA}

Patron Vestige: Andras
Typically bound Vestiges: Andras & whatever seems most useful
Maneuvers from RKV: Divine Strike, Radiant Charge, Rallying Strike
Stance from RKV: Aura of Triumph
Typical Paladin Spells Prepped:
1 Divine Sacrifice (As many times as possible)
2 Luminous Armor

Strong points: BAB 18, solid saves thanks to paladin levels, some nice devoted spirit tricks at higher levels, casts spells as a level 10 paladin, can shuffle bound vestiges (can access vestiges of up to leel 6)and killoren aspect to cover a dizzying number of situations, can make up the lost BAB with pact augmentation.

Weak points: Skill-poor, even with nymph's kiss. Limited number of martial maneuvers, and they're late to the party. Likely to have some serious non-mechanical issues due to being a killoren with no link to nature, a binder, and exalted, all at once. I plan to insert this highly-unusual guy into my campaign as an NPC, possibly as the wielder of Exordius once I get weapons of legacy. He takes a lot of maligned things (binder, legacy weapon, unusual race) and makes it into a workable whole. I like it. :)
Timespike
10-30-06, 09:40 AM :bump:

Nobody has an opinion on this?
Tweedledope
10-30-06, 09:48 AM Can Binders be LG? My Tome of Magic was stolen so, I'm sorry for the blind post. If they can, more power to ya!
jameswilliamogle
10-30-06, 10:42 AM Binders have no alignment restrictions. The flavor text says they tend to not be good, but thats it. I've got a melee Binder build in my sig. The main difference is that you use Paladin in your build. I'm not sure its worth it just for the spellcasting: a Binder 12 / KoSS 5 / SoD 3 has BAB 16 in the end, and would get that 4th Vestige, too, as well as a bunch of other stuff; you already have Smite from Killoren - can't you take extra smite for that? There's also a little XP penalty, but as an NPC it isn't bad. In other words, I wouldn't play it as is, but I don't think its a bad NPC: I just feel there's too many non-Binder levels in there to remain a dedicated Binder; it's more of a general Warrior with some really cool class abilities.
Xaktsaroth
10-30-06, 01:42 PM Like the build, just 1 question.

RKV, aren't they the Knights of Wee Jas? Don't dieties really hate on binders? Seems odd that a target for all churches would be invitied into Wee Jas' church knights.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
10-30-06, 01:49 PM Like the build, just 1 question.

RKV, aren't they the Knights of Wee Jas? Don't dieties really hate on binders? Seems odd that a target for all churches would be invitied into Wee Jas' church knights.
What is this? The Character Development board?

Any good COer can come up with a lame cover-up for some RP discontinuity. In this case, we'll just assume that he plays the vestige binding process off as being "touched" by the divine. That concept works well with the exalted stuff too.

He does his bindings in a closet and fakes seizures a couple of times... now all the common folk and priests think he's "touched by divinity". It's all good as long as he's pious, right?
Richmud
10-30-06, 01:57 PM Like the build, just 1 question.

RKV, aren't they the Knights of Wee Jas? Don't dieties really hate on binders? Seems odd that a target for all churches would be invitied into Wee Jas' church knights.

Not all deities hate binders, Oldimarra (can't spell) "rewarded" his herald with vestigeship so I doubt he hates binders.

However Wee Jas is among the four that really really hate vestiges and have followers present in large numbers in the Seropaenean order
Xaktsaroth
10-30-06, 02:04 PM Not all deities hate binders, Oldimarra (can't spell) "rewarded" his herald with vestigeship so I doubt he hates binders.

However Wee Jas is among the four that really really hate vestiges and have followers present in large numbers in the Seropaenean order

Being a diety of death interacting with things that can't die must be frustrating. :P
Timespike
11-01-06, 09:32 AM Since this is going into my homebrew setting, you can pretty much throw the setting-specific RP stuff out the window. I've make RKV into a much more generic cleric/crusader class.
jameswilliamogle
11-01-06, 09:41 AM Oh, make sure you take the Remove Curse instead of Remove Disease variant from Complete Mage.
Timespike
11-01-06, 09:43 AM Oh, make sure you take the Remove Curse instead of Remove Disease variant from Complete Mage.

I would certainly do that if I was going 6 levels into paladin. I'd take the drakkensteed mount from dragon magic if I was going 5 in, too. Sadly, the build only had room for 4 levels of paladin.
Tweedledope
11-01-06, 09:59 AM What is this? The Character Development board?

Any good COer can come up with a lame cover-up for some RP discontinuity. In this case, we'll just assume that he plays the vestige binding process off as being "touched" by the divine. That concept works well with the exalted stuff too.

He does his bindings in a closet and fakes seizures a couple of times... now all the common folk and priests think he's "touched by divinity". It's all good as long as he's pious, right?
*sigged*
TwoSix26
11-01-06, 03:09 PM At level 9, why not throw in a level of Divine Crusader instead of a 5th level of Binder? Your BaB doesn't drop. You'll lose the paladin casting and a pact augmentation, but gain what, 5th or 6th level DC casting?
jameswilliamogle
11-01-06, 03:14 PM I would certainly do that if I was going 6 levels into paladin. I'd take the drakkensteed mount from dragon magic if I was going 5 in, too. Sadly, the build only had room for 4 levels of paladin.My bad! I thought it was a L4 Pally ability (I haven't played a paladin since 1st ed).

On another note: I'm playing a Binder from L1 up right now (just leveled to 2): I gotta say, Improved Binding + Savnok's armor freakin' ROCKS at these levels - taking on 9 zombies and 6 Gobbo's with a few commoners and only took a single point of damage the whole time (one NPC took out 2 of these Gobbo's, and 2 more fled, and a cleric blew up a handful of zombies, but I was in the front the whole time).
Timespike
11-02-06, 11:54 PM Yeah, I'd REALLY like to try playing a binder some time. It looks like a tremendous blast. I'd probably go binder 15/KoSS 5 if I ever got the chance. I'd almost certainly do some exotic race though. Killoren and Raptorian look like the two best contenders right now.

You really should give a 3.5 paladin a try sometime, though. It's a rush to be able to CLEAVE a fiend in TWAIN with some of the stacked holy attack effects you can get from a paladin. Seiously; when you can KILL a barbazu in one slash at level 8 and then cut down the kyton standing next to it with the followthrough, you feel pretty damn cool. That Knight of the Chalice I played is one of my favorite PCs EVER.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Timespike 10-28-06, 11:55 PM	This was originally my idea fo the new CO contest, but I have game tomorrow and dinner with family afterwards, so I'm basically a bit too short on time to continue. Anyway, I came up with the idea of an adaptable warrior, changeable with the environment and able to alter himself to he situation, while still a steadfast opponent of evil. He'd also be a bit of an outcast, for reasons that will be apparent when you read the build. There's a lot going on in this build, but I find that I still really like it, though I'd be hard-pressed to explain exactly why. Sadrathen the Exalted Outcast Race: Killoren Attribute Distribution: STR 18 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 13 CHA 18 (Level 1) STR 18 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 16 WIS 14 CHA 22 (Level 20) Level 1 Binder 1 [Nymph's Kiss] Level 2 Binder 2 Level 3 Binder 3 [Expel Visage] Level 4 Paladin 1 {+1 WIS} Level 5 Paladin 2 Level 6 Paladin 3 [Martial Study: Foehammer] Level 7 Paladin 4 Level 8 Binder 4 [Improved Binding] {+1 CHA} Level 9 Binder 5 [Weapon Focus: Longsword] Level 10 Knight of the Sacred Seal 1 Level 11 Knight of the Sacred Seal 2 Level 12 Knight of the Sacred Seal 3 [Martial Stance: Martial Spirit] {+1 CHA} Level 13 Knight of the Sacred Seal 4 Level 14 Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 Level 15 Ruby Knight Vindicator 1 [Power Attack] Level 16 Ruby Knight Vindicator 2 {+1 CHA} Level 17 Ruby Knight Vindicator 3 Level 18 Ruby Knight Vindicator 4 [Divine Might] Level 19 Ruby Knight Vindicator 5 Level 20 Ruby Knight Vindicator 6 {+1 CHA} Patron Vestige: Andras Typically bound Vestiges: Andras & whatever seems most useful Maneuvers from RKV: Divine Strike, Radiant Charge, Rallying Strike Stance from RKV: Aura of Triumph Typical Paladin Spells Prepped: 1 Divine Sacrifice (As many times as possible) 2 Luminous Armor Strong points: BAB 18, solid saves thanks to paladin levels, some nice devoted spirit tricks at higher levels, casts spells as a level 10 paladin, can shuffle bound vestiges (can access vestiges of up to leel 6)and killoren aspect to cover a dizzying number of situations, can make up the lost BAB with pact augmentation. Weak points: Skill-poor, even with nymph's kiss. Limited number of martial maneuvers, and they're late to the party. Likely to have some serious non-mechanical issues due to being a killoren with no link to nature, a binder, and exalted, all at once. I plan to insert this highly-unusual guy into my campaign as an NPC, possibly as the wielder of Exordius once I get weapons of legacy. He takes a lot of maligned things (binder, legacy weapon, unusual race) and makes it into a workable whole. I like it. :)
Timespike 10-30-06, 09:40 AM	:bump: Nobody has an opinion on this?
Tweedledope 10-30-06, 09:48 AM	Can Binders be LG? My Tome of Magic was stolen so, I'm sorry for the blind post. If they can, more power to ya!
jameswilliamogle 10-30-06, 10:42 AM	Binders have no alignment restrictions. The flavor text says they tend to not be good, but thats it. I've got a melee Binder build in my sig. The main difference is that you use Paladin in your build. I'm not sure its worth it just for the spellcasting: a Binder 12 / KoSS 5 / SoD 3 has BAB 16 in the end, and would get that 4th Vestige, too, as well as a bunch of other stuff; you already have Smite from Killoren - can't you take extra smite for that? There's also a little XP penalty, but as an NPC it isn't bad. In other words, I wouldn't play it as is, but I don't think its a bad NPC: I just feel there's too many non-Binder levels in there to remain a dedicated Binder; it's more of a general Warrior with some really cool class abilities.
Xaktsaroth 10-30-06, 01:42 PM	Like the build, just 1 question. RKV, aren't they the Knights of Wee Jas? Don't dieties really hate on binders? Seems odd that a target for all churches would be invitied into Wee Jas' church knights.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-30-06, 01:49 PM	Like the build, just 1 question. RKV, aren't they the Knights of Wee Jas? Don't dieties really hate on binders? Seems odd that a target for all churches would be invitied into Wee Jas' church knights. What is this? The Character Development board? Any good COer can come up with a lame cover-up for some RP discontinuity. In this case, we'll just assume that he plays the vestige binding process off as being "touched" by the divine. That concept works well with the exalted stuff too. He does his bindings in a closet and fakes seizures a couple of times... now all the common folk and priests think he's "touched by divinity". It's all good as long as he's pious, right?
Richmud 10-30-06, 01:57 PM	Like the build, just 1 question. RKV, aren't they the Knights of Wee Jas? Don't dieties really hate on binders? Seems odd that a target for all churches would be invitied into Wee Jas' church knights. Not all deities hate binders, Oldimarra (can't spell) "rewarded" his herald with vestigeship so I doubt he hates binders. However Wee Jas is among the four that really really hate vestiges and have followers present in large numbers in the Seropaenean order
Xaktsaroth 10-30-06, 02:04 PM	Not all deities hate binders, Oldimarra (can't spell) "rewarded" his herald with vestigeship so I doubt he hates binders. However Wee Jas is among the four that really really hate vestiges and have followers present in large numbers in the Seropaenean order Being a diety of death interacting with things that can't die must be frustrating. :P
Timespike 11-01-06, 09:32 AM	Since this is going into my homebrew setting, you can pretty much throw the setting-specific RP stuff out the window. I've make RKV into a much more generic cleric/crusader class.
jameswilliamogle 11-01-06, 09:41 AM	Oh, make sure you take the Remove Curse instead of Remove Disease variant from Complete Mage.
Timespike 11-01-06, 09:43 AM	Oh, make sure you take the Remove Curse instead of Remove Disease variant from Complete Mage. I would certainly do that if I was going 6 levels into paladin. I'd take the drakkensteed mount from dragon magic if I was going 5 in, too. Sadly, the build only had room for 4 levels of paladin.
Tweedledope 11-01-06, 09:59 AM	What is this? The Character Development board? Any good COer can come up with a lame cover-up for some RP discontinuity. In this case, we'll just assume that he plays the vestige binding process off as being "touched" by the divine. That concept works well with the exalted stuff too. He does his bindings in a closet and fakes seizures a couple of times... now all the common folk and priests think he's "touched by divinity". It's all good as long as he's pious, right? sigged
TwoSix26 11-01-06, 03:09 PM	At level 9, why not throw in a level of Divine Crusader instead of a 5th level of Binder? Your BaB doesn't drop. You'll lose the paladin casting and a pact augmentation, but gain what, 5th or 6th level DC casting?
jameswilliamogle 11-01-06, 03:14 PM	I would certainly do that if I was going 6 levels into paladin. I'd take the drakkensteed mount from dragon magic if I was going 5 in, too. Sadly, the build only had room for 4 levels of paladin.My bad! I thought it was a L4 Pally ability (I haven't played a paladin since 1st ed). On another note: I'm playing a Binder from L1 up right now (just leveled to 2): I gotta say, Improved Binding + Savnok's armor freakin' ROCKS at these levels - taking on 9 zombies and 6 Gobbo's with a few commoners and only took a single point of damage the whole time (one NPC took out 2 of these Gobbo's, and 2 more fled, and a cleric blew up a handful of zombies, but I was in the front the whole time).
Timespike 11-02-06, 11:54 PM	Yeah, I'd REALLY like to try playing a binder some time. It looks like a tremendous blast. I'd probably go binder 15/KoSS 5 if I ever got the chance. I'd almost certainly do some exotic race though. Killoren and Raptorian look like the two best contenders right now. You really should give a 3.5 paladin a try sometime, though. It's a rush to be able to CLEAVE a fiend in TWAIN with some of the stacked holy attack effects you can get from a paladin. Seiously; when you can KILL a barbazu in one slash at level 8 and then cut down the kyton standing next to it with the followthrough, you feel pretty damn cool. That Knight of the Chalice I played is one of my favorite PCs EVER.