Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 01:07 PM	Ok, I'm making a rogue-centric warlock for a game that I may end up playing and I need a little help. All of my feats for levels 9-18 are unused at this point and I was looking for some ideas on feats that I could take. The main focus of the build is to ensure I can function as party rogue for DD/OL purpose, with damage and utility coming in for a tie for second. My skills take care of my primary goal so all four of my feats may be used for whatever ideas yon wonderful CO people can think up for damage/utility optimization. Any ideas on changing those last four levels to possibly get more skill points with full spell progression would be keen but I'm not expecting miracles. Rogue 1 / Warlock 5 / Daggerspell Mage 10 / Warlock 4(?) Str 8, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12 (28 point buy) Dis Dev, Knowl (Planes), Open Lock, Search, Sleight of Hand all 23 ranks at 20; Conc 10, Spot 20, Tumble 19, UMD 19; some misc ranks in stuff for qualifications and spare points at level 1 Invocations: Baleful Utterance, See the Unseen, Entropic Warding, Charm(switch from Walk Unseen), Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Vitriolic Blast, Noxious Blast, Chilling Tentacles, Retributive Invisibility, Path of Shadows, and Dark Foresight or Word of Changing (with low Cha leaning towards DF) Feats Taken: H) Able Learner 1) Imp. Init. 3)WF Dagger 6) TWF 9-18) ?? All books that I have access to are available which is damn near all of them, but they must be either 3.5 or updated for 3.5. Thanks in advance for any help. :D
D1Tremere 01-25-07, 02:11 PM	I'm currently running a warlock/ninja that surves this function very well. I'd recomend checking out ninja in place of rogue and daggerspell, and droping the two weapon and weapon focus.
fnord 01-25-07, 03:45 PM	If the books are available, it seems like finishing off with Hellfire Warlock would be nice. There's at least 2 ways to deal with the Con damage, and +6d6 Eldritich blast damage is nice.
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 04:21 PM	D1Tremere: While I do like ninja I want continued Warlock progression as much as possible while getting rogue skills (or more likely: as close as possible). With my current build my skills are quite satisfactory (for me) although more is always better, while maintaining 18th Warlock level (basically). That and my last group of friends I gamed with did ninja so damn much I frankly grew tired of it. fnord: Which book is Hellfire Warlock from? I could've sworn I have seen it in one of my books, but I can't for the life of me find it. :confused: Also, the con damage things aren't too clear to me. I'll have to look at the thread that had that issue addressed to refresh myself. Overall, yes I know TWF and WF: Dagger are useless, but I got 4 additional skill points a level and sneak attack out of it, which is worth it for me. Feats are more what I'm looking for. Other advice is nice and appreciate the thoughts above, but all but the last four levels in the progression are just-about set in stone. The last four can be for extra warlock stuff or more skills points with FCP, if possible. Thanks again for the ideas guys :D
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 04:29 PM	Ok, found Hellfire Warlock... I'm dumb.
jameswilliamogle 01-25-07, 04:47 PM	I noticed you didn't have PBS or Precise Shot or Flyby Attack in your build. These are pretty standard feats for most Warlocks.
SmiloDan 01-25-07, 05:45 PM	Quicken Spell-like Ability, Empower Spell-like Ability, and Heroic Surge (from Dragonlance) are also nice. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration can come in handy too. Nimble Fingers?
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 05:55 PM	I have never found I needed PBS and Precise Shot much, usually I can avoid shooting into melee or still easily hit despite the penalty. Flyby Attack, yeah, I could see that, and fully appreciate why someone would take it, but I'll have to think on that one more. Quicken SLA and Max SLA are currently highly likely feats I'll take, I guess I should have said I was looking for something less obviously tasty. :) Wow, the ToC in the Dragonlance CS doesn't seem to like the Feats section... Oh, it's in Age of Mortals, now I see it. :) Not bad, that looks kind of like an extra Quickening with less restrictions. I likes. :) Spell Penetration is nice, but with Vitriolic Blast I think I can spend the feats on other things. I love Heroic Surge, even if it doesn't get into the build it's a really nice feat that I had never payed attention to before. :D
UCsimplyme 01-25-07, 09:09 PM	I would go with the Fey feat chain: Fey Heritage: Bonus on Will saves vs enchantment Fey Skin: DR x/cold iron where x=1+fey feats (not including this one) Fey Power: Bonus on DCs with enchantments and invocations Fey Presence: Gain Charm Monster, Deep Slumber, and Disguise Self as spell-like abilities. Fey Legacy: Gain Confusion, Dimension Door, and Summon Nature's Ally V as spell-like abilities. I am a huge fan of this feat chain for Warlocks. Good spell-like abilities, DR that stacks with a 'locks base DR, and a bonus on DCs. I have been kicking around a Warlock with rogue skills but have been thinking about going Beguiler 4/Warlock 6/Eldritch Theurge 10 (Beguiler caster level of 13, Warlock caster level of 16, 3+int full rogue skills with Able learner, and perma-DR 11/Cold Iron).
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 10:02 PM	Well I did ask for some less conventional choices. :D I like the feats but I think I'd be stretching my concept quite a bit. After daggerspell weaving, rogue skill taking, and hellfire throwing, I'm just not sure I can or could want to pull off a Fey heritage. Although the idea does make me laugh. :) Come away with me for a moment. Fighter: Ok, so we have myself, Jozan the cleric, Orinos the wizard, and Elan the bard, so far this is looking like a pretty team! I wish we had a rogue though... Warlock: Oo! Oo! Pick me! I can open locks with the best of them! Fighter: ... Aw, you're kind of... evil... and you don't exactly look - rogue-ish. Warlock: Ah, yes, you see, I began my life as a street urchin where I picked up the ins and outs of the rogue's skills. And I'm not evil, although I get that alot. Fighter: But you're not a rogue... you're a warlock. Warlock: Of course, but I'm quite the able learner and have kept up to date on the skills of my youth. Fighter: Well I suppose we could give it a shot, how accomplished are you as a warlock? Warlock: I'm glad you asked, I have tapped into many conduits of dark energies. Allow me a demonstration. Wizard: ?? I'm no expert, but how do you plan to use your abilities with a dagger in each hand? Warlock: Oh, I'm a member of the Daggerspell Guild, they're standard issue and present no problem. HELLFIRE BLAST! Warrior: What?! Hellfire?! I thought you said you weren't evil! Warlock: Oh, I'm not. But I have learned to channel the fires of the eighth layer of Hell into my powers to make them even stronger! Warrior: ... But not evil... Warlock: Right! Warrior: Just roguish... and hellfire... Warlock: And... Warrior: Oh god! What else?! Are you a paladin too?! Warlock: Of course not! That'd be silly! I AM able to channel power from my fey heritage! Warrior: Right... I think we're just gonna get a normal rogue.
smage 01-25-07, 10:31 PM	Supernatural Transformation from Savage Species for Eldritch Blast changes it from Sp to Su. Works well for Flee the Scene, too (or really any Invocation). Pretty slick, if you ask me (no need for concentration, no AoO, no Somatic component, caster level equals HD, etc). Probably pure cheese, though. ;)
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 10:44 PM	Yes, personally I fall on the nay side of the arguement the warlocks of the CO boards have had about Sup Trans. It's supposed to be an innate ability and while you (and more specifically your concept) may have had your powers from birth they aren't part of you innately. If they were then everyone would have some of them. Yes yes, I know this one can go either way. But it just doesn't feel right to me. BTW: I'll post my updated build in a moment.
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 10:56 PM	Rogue 1 / Warlock 5 / Daggerspell Mage 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / Warlock 1(?) Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 8 (28 point buy) Dis Dev, Knowl (Planes), Open Lock, Search, Sleight of Hand all 23 ranks at 20; Intim 6, Conc 8, Spot 20, Tumble 19, UMD 19; some misc ranks in stuff from spare points at level 1 Invocations: Baleful Utterance, See the Unseen, Entropic Warding, Eldritch Chain(switch from Walk Unseen), Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Vitriolic Blast, Devour Magic, Chilling Tentacles, Retributive Invisibility, Path of Shadows, and Dark Foresight Feats Taken: H) Able Learner 1) Imp. Init. 3)WF Dagger 6) TWF 9) ?? 12) ?? 15) Shape Soulmeld 18) ?? With Chausible and Hellfire Blast can fire out 16d6 +4d6 SA (possibly). Not completely optimized, but I got a few open feats still available. What are the Incarnum options for Eldritch Blast? Can a warlock muster enough essentia to make that path worth while? My friend perma-borrowed (so far at least) my copy so I can't look for myself. :weep:
fnord 01-25-07, 11:05 PM	You need either Hellrime Blast or Brimstone Blast to get into Hellfire Warlock, IRC. You could drop one of your other invocations or take Extra Invocation with one of your spare feats. Wings of Flying pretty much obviate the need for Fell Flight, so you could drop that, if you wanted.
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 11:15 PM	Oh yeah, the blast thingy... I forgot about that part... gah, I'm daft some times. Nice catch. :) Wings of Flying do negate Fell Flight, but Dark Transient requires it, and I don't want to not get that. :D I've updated my build for the Brimstone Blast... moved Shape Soulmeld to twelth level and put Extra Inv(Brimstone) there. All I got left is 9 and 18.
Nomad_the_Odd 01-25-07, 11:29 PM	Does no one else share the love of extra invocations? No blast shapes? Eldrich spear for range? Enervating shadow? Full concealment is nice. There's got to be more tricks you want. Warlocks only get a few tricks, but you can use them whenever you want. Get more tricks.
mod5000 01-25-07, 11:35 PM	Might want to finish that off with 4 levels of Arcane Trickster. Hard to say no to +2d6 sneak attack and full casting in one class ^_^
jcethan2859 01-25-07, 11:42 PM	No Eldritch Spear cause I don't find it worth a feat slot when I primarily want to be within 30ft. for sneak attack, I took Chain, and Doom/Cone require Reflex saves and my Charisma is... well, laughable. I've been thinking about Enervating Shadow. Would I be correct in the assumption that if an enemy had See Invis I could get SA thanks to the benefit of ES if I'm in the dark? Cause if so, I got an idea for 18th level feat. :D Arcane Trickster requires serious cheese to pull out of a warlock's hindquarters without a DM ruling that I won't get.
mod5000 01-26-07, 02:40 PM	Arcane Trickster requires serious cheese to pull out of a warlock's hindquarters without a DM ruling that I won't get.Spell Hand from CA for the Mage Hand prereq? check... +2d6 Sneak Attack from Daggerspell Mage? check... Skills? Shouldn't be too hard... check... As for the casting requirments, I don't think it would be too hard to convince the DM to allow it--it's not a horribly game-breaking PrC.
Sikyanakotik 01-26-07, 04:06 PM	A warlock? With spare feats? How often does that happen? Have you considered picking up some extra invocations?
Elder Elemental Evil 01-27-07, 12:25 PM	I would go with the Fey feat chain: Fey Heritage: Bonus on Will saves vs enchantment Fey Skin: DR x/cold iron where x=1+fey feats (not including this one) Fey Power: Bonus on DCs with enchantments and invocations Fey Presence: Gain Charm Monster, Deep Slumber, and Disguise Self as spell-like abilities. Fey Legacy: Gain Confusion, Dimension Door, and Summon Nature's Ally V as spell-like abilities. I am a huge fan of this feat chain for Warlocks. Good spell-like abilities, DR that stacks with a 'locks base DR, and a bonus on DCs. I have been kicking around a Warlock with rogue skills but have been thinking about going Beguiler 4/Warlock 6/Eldritch Theurge 10 (Beguiler caster level of 13, Warlock caster level of 16, 3+int full rogue skills with Able learner, and perma-DR 11/Cold Iron). Away from books at the moment, but how does this Fey Heritage chain compare to the Draconic or Fiendish chains? I'm also playing a warlock with a few extra feats, and was considering taking something like Bind Vestige or maybe adding a manuever or two from the Tome of Battle. Anyone see anything in there that they like?
TheDragonmaster 01-27-07, 01:26 PM	If you are getting HFW, you must get Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest)... Then there is Mortalbane (BOVD), Quicken Spell-like Ability and other cheeze, then why not just Bayushu Technique (Rokugan Campaign Setting) for sneak attack cheeze... every door is open... As for ToB, Martial Study (Cloak of Desception) and Matial Stance (Assassin's Stance) could get you a long way... Look into CO boards and ask for a HFW-Warlock-Legacy Champion-Major Bloodline-Hideous Blow-Eldrich Glavie build... like cheese? [BRING OUT THE CHEDDAR!!!]
PhaedrusXY 01-27-07, 03:03 PM	Play a psionic race like Xeph, and take Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, and Psionic Meditation for another +4d6 damage per blast.
TheDragonmaster 01-29-07, 12:59 PM	Forgot about Psionic Shot chain... Really, a few (or a lot of) levels in Legacy Champion (get a ToB sword if you go the ToB line...), or a Bloodline for the bloodline levels is seriously... BROKEN!!! in combination with HFW. Also, the invocation Caustic Mire has great synergy with Brimstone Blast... and since Hellfire Blast is no Eldritch Essense invocation (allthough it is worded a lot like one), you can use a Brimstone Hellfire Blast (+1 damage/die is nice, and 1d6 damage per square moved (at reduced speed) is just... good).
Mr. Dog 01-29-07, 04:21 PM	Ranged Recall lets you reroll a missed EB 3/day at a -5 to hit. Requires Weapon focus (Ranged Spell). Second the Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest). Good stuff.