Aasimar Gish [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aasimar Gish [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
the shaderaven
02-14-04, 02:18 PM Well, in the next sesion I'm considering starting a fighter/mage (kind of), but since I've never played a fighter/mage... I don't want to end up being totaly useless. Not that I want to be assaulting hell all by myself at level 5th, but a little proffesional demon smitin here and there is desirrable. I thought that there is no better place than this board to ask if there are some obvious flaws in my build or a way to make it better...mostly the spell sellection part, since the rest I think is good enough.

So there it goes:
Race: The +0 LA Aasimar from the Savage Progression Feature of the Wizards site

Ability Scores (32 point buy):
Str: 14 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 8 Cha: 16+2

Class and Feet Progression:
1 Paladin: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day, (F)Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
2 Paladin: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
3 Sorcerer Summon familiar, (F)Power Attack
4 Sorcerer
5 Sorcerer
6 Sorcerer: (F)Improved Toughness
7 Spellsword: Ignore Arcanne Spell Failure 10%
8 Spellsword: (B)Improved Buckler Defence
9 Spellsword: Ignore Arcanne Spell Failure 15%, (F)Improved Familiar (Blink Dog)
10 Eldritch Knight: (B)Cleave
11 Eldritch Knight
12 Eldritch Knight: (F)Arcane Strike
13 Eldritch Knight
14 Eldritch Knight
15 Sacred Exorcist: Prestige Domain: Exorcism, Chosen Foe +1, Turn Undead, (F)Divine Might
16 Sacred Exorcist: Resist Possession, Detect Evil
17 Sacred Exorcist: (B)Extra Turning
18 Sacred Exorcist: Dispell Evil 1/week, Chosen Foe +2, (F)Extra Spell: Limited Wish
19 Eldritch Knight
20 Eldritch Knight

Spell Selection:

Level 1: Shield--9th level-->Grease, True Strike, Enlarge Person--12th-->Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement, Magic Missile, (D)Protection from Evil
Level 2: Bull's Strength--20th-->Scorching Ray, Ice Knife (TaB)--16th-->Knock, Choke (TaB), False Life, Create Magic Tattoo (FRCS), (D)Magic Circle against Evil
Level 3: Displacement, Dispell Magic--16th-->Vampiric Touch, Haste, Blindsight (MoF), (D)Remove Curse
Level 4: Polymorph, Evard's Black Tentacles, Thunderlance (FRCS), Stoneskin, (D)Dismissal
Level 5: Dismissal--18th-->Teleport, Ghostform (TaB), Simbul's Spell Matrix (MoF), Shadow Evocation, (D)Dispel Evil
Level 6: Angelform (MoF, actualy it is Fiendform, but you get the idea of Angelform), Tenser's Transformation, Prismatic Eye (FRCS), (D)Banishment
Level 7: Reverse Gravity, Similacrum, (D)Holly Word
Level 8: Power Word Stun, (D)Holly Aura

Tactics:
Lvls 1-2 Nothing really difficult here, just a simple paladin with greatsword - hacking his way up to level 3
Lvls 3-6 A bit of arcane jumps in the fray, without changing the whole picture that much. Still wearing armor and bashing around with ocasional true strike + power attack and if having a few seconds for preparation prior combat - hoping to get a shield, enlarge person or bull's strength through the ASF or eventually with a lesser rod of metamagic (still spell)
Note: The rod of metamagic (still spell) doesn't seem to apear in the DMG? That maybe it is better idea to take Blindness/Deafness instead of Bull's Strength?
Lvls 7-10 With the ASF reduction, this build finnaly starts to round up. Mithral Shirt and buckler plus the good old graetsword. Ray of Enfeeblement, Ice Knife and Choke can greatly hider the enemy. Displacement offers supperior protection. And dispell magic is here just in case. The blink dog offers excelent flanking partner and his mopility is unmached.
Lvls 11-13 Polymorph is finally available and the access to many outsider forms. False life gives the HPs a little boost in time of need, and haste gives the whole party a little bony. Evard's Balck Tentacles is great mage-stopping and crowd controling spell. Arcane Strike is also finally available...Smite+True Strike+Power Attack+Arcane Strike is one hell of a punch in the face of an average bad guy.
Lvls 14-16 Angelform rocks the world here...especially the Bralani Form - Perfect fly speed, good physical stats, mirror images, charm persons, tongues at will, healing, lightning bolts, imunities, resistances, damage reduction...seems prety good to me. Though Leonal form via Polymorph is just as attractive. Ghostforh + Thunderlance is another very fishing combination. Since Thunderlance is a force weapon with its own STR score it offsets the mellee drawbacks of Ghostform. Throw in one true strike and...few things can resist a disarm attempt with a huge weapon and attack bonus of something like +40. When the sacred exorcist levels add the divine might into the mix it just gets sweeter.
17-20 Well nothing new here, just some new spells, reverse gravity, similacrun, power word stun. Wrecing havoc among the forces of evil.
LordShade
02-14-04, 02:25 PM Looks like a wonderful build to me. Have fun!
Snow Savant
02-14-04, 02:47 PM Nice build and spell selection!

Although I'd be curious as to what the composite of your party looks like. If you are the sole primary arcane spellcaster, you should probably think of re-adjusting a few of spell selections to be team-friendly spells that are helpful to your party, via buffs, divinations, etc. As it stands, your spell selections are really all about *YOU*. Nothing wrong with that, if the party dynamics are compatible for such a spell suite.

If you already have a primary Mage and Cleric performing these duties, then you should be good to go!

Take care.

Snow
Raging Halfling
02-14-04, 05:10 PM I hope you realize that you'll never get 7th and 8th level spells this way. You can't get arcane spell progression from Sacred Exorcist.

Though it isn't explicitly stated, let me quote a key passage from Defenders of the Faith:

"If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a sacred exorcist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred exorcist for the purpose of determining spells per day."

The above passage is from the Spell per Day heading in the Sacred Exorcist's description. Thus, your build gets a caster level of 12 from the other classes. If you just want undead turning, more power to you, but it seems a bit inefficient to me.
LordShade
02-14-04, 05:36 PM DotF also says "whatever spellcasting class she belonged to," not "whatever divine spellcasting class."

Furthermore the description of the PrC cites "Occasionally, a wizard qualifies to fill this role in a church that is tolerant of arcane magic."

I've always used SE to advance arcane casting, I don't see a problem with it.
Master of the Squirrel's
02-14-04, 05:44 PM My new favorite book, Unearthed Arcana, brings a new option to this build: the Battle Sorcerer. This ups your HD and gives access to spellcasting in light armor. You lose a spell per day at each level, but I figure it's worth it if your going to be up close while spellcasting.
Stoned Golem
02-14-04, 05:48 PM Originally posted by Raging Halfling
I hope you realize that you'll never get 7th and 8th level spells this way. You can't get arcane spell progression from Sacred Exorcist.

Though it isn't explicitly stated, let me quote a key passage from Defenders of the Faith:

"If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a sacred exorcist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred exorcist for the purpose of determining spells per day."

Well, let me quote another key passage from Defenders of the Faith then: (page 77)
If Kharid, a 10th level Sorceror, gained a level in the Sacred Exorcist prestige class, he would also gain the granted power of the Exorcism domain, enabling him to force possessing spirits out of the bodies they inhabit. He would have the spellcasting ability of an 11th level Sorceror, so...
;)
Rosella
02-14-04, 06:03 PM I might be mistaken, but wasn't it that a paladin always could only progress as a paladin? Once a paladin, always a paladin (or ex)

Once you take a new class, you lose paladin abilities.
Raging Halfling
02-14-04, 07:53 PM Well, I guess you learn something new every day on this board. I stand corrected. I do think being able to take Sacred Exorcist as a non-divine caster is conceptually really weird, but hey, it's legal, go for it.
jtgalt
02-14-04, 08:33 PM Originally posted by Rosella
I might be mistaken, but wasn't it that a paladin always could only progress as a paladin? Once a paladin, always a paladin (or ex)

Once you take a new class, you lose paladin abilities.

When you leave paladin you lose the ability to go back into paladin. So long as you remain lawful good you shouldn't lose any of the already gained abilities.
the shaderaven
02-15-04, 11:28 AM Snow: You seem to be right as usual:cool: , but if you have any suggestions they will be most appresiated.
As for the party build, I am not sure yet. I know almost for sure there will be 2 Paladins, but the 4th party member is still misty for me. We certanly will benefit most from an arcane trickster, but it will hardly feel at home in our sickeningly:angel: good and righteous company. I think the chances for him being a cleric are the biggest.
Now again for the party friendly aspects...I thought that with a haste to start nearly every fight, ocasional displacement on a party member taking a lot of pressure from the enemy and magic circle agains evil when fighting evil (heh, about 103% of the time) my contribution to the party wellbeing will be satisfactory, not to mention the various aids, blesses and cures that I would have access due to angelform. After all if there is not fighterish in a mage who spends the first 5 rounds of combat casting spells.
I agree though that out of combat this spell sell selsction is a little short. I woud gladly say goodbye to Shadow Evocation, Prismatic Eye and Reverse Gravity if someone can suggest something better instead of them?:confused:
BTW, I am still having my doubts on the Improved familiar side. Would I consider a blink dog or a pseudodragon? And taking chill touch instead of grease to enhance its attcks?
JosephKell
02-15-04, 03:33 PM wrong thread
michael_noah
02-16-04, 12:34 PM Originally posted by Snow Savant
Nice build and spell selection!

Although I'd be curious as to what the composite of your party looks like. If you are the sole primary arcane spellcaster, you should probably think of re-adjusting a few of spell selections to be team-friendly spells that are helpful to your party, via buffs, divinations, etc. As it stands, your spell selections are really all about *YOU*. Nothing wrong with that, if the party dynamics are compatible for such a spell suite.

If you already have a primary Mage and Cleric performing these duties, then you should be good to go!

Take care.

Snow

Snow,

I'm in exactly the situation you describe, where my Gish is going to be the primary Arcane caster of the group. Do you have a spell list that you would recommend that balances Offensive/Buff spells with Utility?
Piraatje
02-16-04, 01:31 PM You HAVE to take that level of Asimar. Just like in SS, you MUST finish the asimar 'class' before you can multiclass.
Frosty The Snowman
02-16-04, 03:33 PM The Shaderaven

The description for Improved Buckler Defense:

“You can attack with an off-hand weapon while retaining a buckler’s shield bonus to your Armor Class.”

Are you defining using a Two Handed weapon (Greatsword) as an off-hand weapon?

Did I miss something?

Frosty
Sisyfos
02-16-04, 03:47 PM This was debated in the rules board a while back and they concluded that based on wording in PHB regarding two-handed weapons improved buckler defence also applies for them.
Frosty The Snowman
02-16-04, 05:07 PM :looloo:

Okay . . . a very "interesting" interpretation.

To each their own.

Frosty
Sisyfos
02-16-04, 05:58 PM Make your own interpretation of what has been said before:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182036&highlight=improved+buckler+defense

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170803&highlight=improved+buckler+defense

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the shaderaven 02-14-04, 02:18 PM	Well, in the next sesion I'm considering starting a fighter/mage (kind of), but since I've never played a fighter/mage... I don't want to end up being totaly useless. Not that I want to be assaulting hell all by myself at level 5th, but a little proffesional demon smitin here and there is desirrable. I thought that there is no better place than this board to ask if there are some obvious flaws in my build or a way to make it better...mostly the spell sellection part, since the rest I think is good enough. So there it goes: Race: The +0 LA Aasimar from the Savage Progression Feature of the Wizards site Ability Scores (32 point buy): Str: 14 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 12 Wis: 8 Cha: 16+2 Class and Feet Progression: 1 Paladin: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day, (F)Weapon Focus (Greatsword) 2 Paladin: Divine Grace, Lay on Hands 3 Sorcerer Summon familiar, (F)Power Attack 4 Sorcerer 5 Sorcerer 6 Sorcerer: (F)Improved Toughness 7 Spellsword: Ignore Arcanne Spell Failure 10% 8 Spellsword: (B)Improved Buckler Defence 9 Spellsword: Ignore Arcanne Spell Failure 15%, (F)Improved Familiar (Blink Dog) 10 Eldritch Knight: (B)Cleave 11 Eldritch Knight 12 Eldritch Knight: (F)Arcane Strike 13 Eldritch Knight 14 Eldritch Knight 15 Sacred Exorcist: Prestige Domain: Exorcism, Chosen Foe +1, Turn Undead, (F)Divine Might 16 Sacred Exorcist: Resist Possession, Detect Evil 17 Sacred Exorcist: (B)Extra Turning 18 Sacred Exorcist: Dispell Evil 1/week, Chosen Foe +2, (F)Extra Spell: Limited Wish 19 Eldritch Knight 20 Eldritch Knight Spell Selection: Level 1: Shield--9th level-->Grease, True Strike, Enlarge Person--12th-->Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement, Magic Missile, (D)Protection from Evil Level 2: Bull's Strength--20th-->Scorching Ray, Ice Knife (TaB)--16th-->Knock, Choke (TaB), False Life, Create Magic Tattoo (FRCS), (D)Magic Circle against Evil Level 3: Displacement, Dispell Magic--16th-->Vampiric Touch, Haste, Blindsight (MoF), (D)Remove Curse Level 4: Polymorph, Evard's Black Tentacles, Thunderlance (FRCS), Stoneskin, (D)Dismissal Level 5: Dismissal--18th-->Teleport, Ghostform (TaB), Simbul's Spell Matrix (MoF), Shadow Evocation, (D)Dispel Evil Level 6: Angelform (MoF, actualy it is Fiendform, but you get the idea of Angelform), Tenser's Transformation, Prismatic Eye (FRCS), (D)Banishment Level 7: Reverse Gravity, Similacrum, (D)Holly Word Level 8: Power Word Stun, (D)Holly Aura Tactics: Lvls 1-2 Nothing really difficult here, just a simple paladin with greatsword - hacking his way up to level 3 Lvls 3-6 A bit of arcane jumps in the fray, without changing the whole picture that much. Still wearing armor and bashing around with ocasional true strike + power attack and if having a few seconds for preparation prior combat - hoping to get a shield, enlarge person or bull's strength through the ASF or eventually with a lesser rod of metamagic (still spell) Note: The rod of metamagic (still spell) doesn't seem to apear in the DMG? That maybe it is better idea to take Blindness/Deafness instead of Bull's Strength? Lvls 7-10 With the ASF reduction, this build finnaly starts to round up. Mithral Shirt and buckler plus the good old graetsword. Ray of Enfeeblement, Ice Knife and Choke can greatly hider the enemy. Displacement offers supperior protection. And dispell magic is here just in case. The blink dog offers excelent flanking partner and his mopility is unmached. Lvls 11-13 Polymorph is finally available and the access to many outsider forms. False life gives the HPs a little boost in time of need, and haste gives the whole party a little bony. Evard's Balck Tentacles is great mage-stopping and crowd controling spell. Arcane Strike is also finally available...Smite+True Strike+Power Attack+Arcane Strike is one hell of a punch in the face of an average bad guy. Lvls 14-16 Angelform rocks the world here...especially the Bralani Form - Perfect fly speed, good physical stats, mirror images, charm persons, tongues at will, healing, lightning bolts, imunities, resistances, damage reduction...seems prety good to me. Though Leonal form via Polymorph is just as attractive. Ghostforh + Thunderlance is another very fishing combination. Since Thunderlance is a force weapon with its own STR score it offsets the mellee drawbacks of Ghostform. Throw in one true strike and...few things can resist a disarm attempt with a huge weapon and attack bonus of something like +40. When the sacred exorcist levels add the divine might into the mix it just gets sweeter. 17-20 Well nothing new here, just some new spells, reverse gravity, similacrun, power word stun. Wrecing havoc among the forces of evil.
LordShade 02-14-04, 02:25 PM	Looks like a wonderful build to me. Have fun!
Snow Savant 02-14-04, 02:47 PM	Nice build and spell selection! Although I'd be curious as to what the composite of your party looks like. If you are the sole primary arcane spellcaster, you should probably think of re-adjusting a few of spell selections to be team-friendly spells that are helpful to your party, via buffs, divinations, etc. As it stands, your spell selections are really all about YOU. Nothing wrong with that, if the party dynamics are compatible for such a spell suite. If you already have a primary Mage and Cleric performing these duties, then you should be good to go! Take care. Snow
Raging Halfling 02-14-04, 05:10 PM	I hope you realize that you'll never get 7th and 8th level spells this way. You can't get arcane spell progression from Sacred Exorcist. Though it isn't explicitly stated, let me quote a key passage from Defenders of the Faith: "If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a sacred exorcist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred exorcist for the purpose of determining spells per day." The above passage is from the Spell per Day heading in the Sacred Exorcist's description. Thus, your build gets a caster level of 12 from the other classes. If you just want undead turning, more power to you, but it seems a bit inefficient to me.
LordShade 02-14-04, 05:36 PM	DotF also says "whatever spellcasting class she belonged to," not "whatever divine spellcasting class." Furthermore the description of the PrC cites "Occasionally, a wizard qualifies to fill this role in a church that is tolerant of arcane magic." I've always used SE to advance arcane casting, I don't see a problem with it.
Master of the Squirrel's 02-14-04, 05:44 PM	My new favorite book, Unearthed Arcana, brings a new option to this build: the Battle Sorcerer. This ups your HD and gives access to spellcasting in light armor. You lose a spell per day at each level, but I figure it's worth it if your going to be up close while spellcasting.
Stoned Golem 02-14-04, 05:48 PM	Originally posted by Raging Halfling I hope you realize that you'll never get 7th and 8th level spells this way. You can't get arcane spell progression from Sacred Exorcist. Though it isn't explicitly stated, let me quote a key passage from Defenders of the Faith: "If a character had more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a sacred exorcist, the player must decide which class to assign each level of sacred exorcist for the purpose of determining spells per day." Well, let me quote another key passage from Defenders of the Faith then: (page 77) If Kharid, a 10th level Sorceror, gained a level in the Sacred Exorcist prestige class, he would also gain the granted power of the Exorcism domain, enabling him to force possessing spirits out of the bodies they inhabit. He would have the spellcasting ability of an 11th level Sorceror, so... ;)
Rosella 02-14-04, 06:03 PM	I might be mistaken, but wasn't it that a paladin always could only progress as a paladin? Once a paladin, always a paladin (or ex) Once you take a new class, you lose paladin abilities.
Raging Halfling 02-14-04, 07:53 PM	Well, I guess you learn something new every day on this board. I stand corrected. I do think being able to take Sacred Exorcist as a non-divine caster is conceptually really weird, but hey, it's legal, go for it.
jtgalt 02-14-04, 08:33 PM	Originally posted by Rosella I might be mistaken, but wasn't it that a paladin always could only progress as a paladin? Once a paladin, always a paladin (or ex) Once you take a new class, you lose paladin abilities. When you leave paladin you lose the ability to go back into paladin. So long as you remain lawful good you shouldn't lose any of the already gained abilities.
the shaderaven 02-15-04, 11:28 AM	Snow: You seem to be right as usual:cool: , but if you have any suggestions they will be most appresiated. As for the party build, I am not sure yet. I know almost for sure there will be 2 Paladins, but the 4th party member is still misty for me. We certanly will benefit most from an arcane trickster, but it will hardly feel at home in our sickeningly:angel: good and righteous company. I think the chances for him being a cleric are the biggest. Now again for the party friendly aspects...I thought that with a haste to start nearly every fight, ocasional displacement on a party member taking a lot of pressure from the enemy and magic circle agains evil when fighting evil (heh, about 103% of the time) my contribution to the party wellbeing will be satisfactory, not to mention the various aids, blesses and cures that I would have access due to angelform. After all if there is not fighterish in a mage who spends the first 5 rounds of combat casting spells. I agree though that out of combat this spell sell selsction is a little short. I woud gladly say goodbye to Shadow Evocation, Prismatic Eye and Reverse Gravity if someone can suggest something better instead of them?:confused: BTW, I am still having my doubts on the Improved familiar side. Would I consider a blink dog or a pseudodragon? And taking chill touch instead of grease to enhance its attcks?
JosephKell 02-15-04, 03:33 PM	wrong thread
michael_noah 02-16-04, 12:34 PM	Originally posted by Snow Savant Nice build and spell selection! Although I'd be curious as to what the composite of your party looks like. If you are the sole primary arcane spellcaster, you should probably think of re-adjusting a few of spell selections to be team-friendly spells that are helpful to your party, via buffs, divinations, etc. As it stands, your spell selections are really all about YOU. Nothing wrong with that, if the party dynamics are compatible for such a spell suite. If you already have a primary Mage and Cleric performing these duties, then you should be good to go! Take care. Snow Snow, I'm in exactly the situation you describe, where my Gish is going to be the primary Arcane caster of the group. Do you have a spell list that you would recommend that balances Offensive/Buff spells with Utility?
Piraatje 02-16-04, 01:31 PM	You HAVE to take that level of Asimar. Just like in SS, you MUST finish the asimar 'class' before you can multiclass.
Frosty The Snowman 02-16-04, 03:33 PM	The Shaderaven The description for Improved Buckler Defense: “You can attack with an off-hand weapon while retaining a buckler’s shield bonus to your Armor Class.” Are you defining using a Two Handed weapon (Greatsword) as an off-hand weapon? Did I miss something? Frosty
Sisyfos 02-16-04, 03:47 PM	This was debated in the rules board a while back and they concluded that based on wording in PHB regarding two-handed weapons improved buckler defence also applies for them.
Frosty The Snowman 02-16-04, 05:07 PM	:looloo: Okay . . . a very "interesting" interpretation. To each their own. Frosty
Sisyfos 02-16-04, 05:58 PM	Make your own interpretation of what has been said before: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182036&highlight=improved+buckler+defense http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170803&highlight=improved+buckler+defense