Ability Focus: Broken (?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ability Focus: Broken (?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SuperThread
09-03-04, 01:39 PM The feat 'Ability Focus' from the SRD allows a character/monster to choose a special attack, which then gets +2 to all save DCs associated with it.
In the description of monsters, 'Spells' are listed as special attacks. Ability Focus: Spells therefore gives +2 DCs.

Does this trick work?
catharz
09-03-04, 02:06 PM It should work, and I only think it is broken in relation to existing spell-DC increasing feats.

The problem isn't Ability focus, it is how the relation of Spells and Spell-like abilities are defined.
After all, Quicken spell-like ability (from BoVD) allowed you to Quicken every spell youu character could cast once per day (each).
Sir Gummibaerchen
09-03-04, 02:16 PM After all, Quicken spell-like ability (from BoVD) allowed you to Quicken every spell youu character could cast once per day (each).

Come again? How is that so (without books, so I don't have the exact verbing)?
flamefist drunkenmonk
09-03-04, 03:09 PM this might not be right... but doesnt it have to be an ability or something ... doesnt that exclude spells ? or is it written so its ikky like that
Razorblade Smile
09-03-04, 03:50 PM I have no idea what he was smoking, but Quicken Spell-Like Ability is quite explicit in that it only functions with a character's spell-like abilities, and only those spell-like abilities that don't duplicate a spell with a casting time greater than one full round. It has zero effect on a character's ability to cast spells.
catharz
09-03-04, 04:03 PM Come again? How is that so (without books, so I don't have the exact verbing)?

In 3.0, spells were spell-like abilities.
flamefist drunkenmonk
09-03-04, 05:13 PM ohh... 3.0 ... yea i remember something about that
Qaetar
09-03-04, 09:57 PM Where are they listed as Sp in 3.0? Just to continue the tangent?

(Qaetar)
Penguin Master
09-03-04, 11:02 PM You can take spells as the selection for Ability Focus.

The prerequisite for ability focus is Special Attack. And if you look at the description it says, choose any special attack. Then if you look at the monsters that can cast spells they are listed under Special Attacks. Ex: Ghaele Eladrin MM pg 94-95, Hound Archon MM pg 16-17, Aboleth Mage MM pg 9.
Qaetar
09-04-04, 12:31 AM Okay, time to take a time out from RAW.

I know this is shunned upon when it weakens characters but obviously intent should rule the day here. Since the PH came out far before SS and the 3.5 PH also includes Spell Focus, and including the fact that Spell Focus was nerfed, Ability Focus should not be usable on Spells.

(Qaetar)
Cold Napalm
09-04-04, 01:32 AM Umm arent we about finding these broken loop holes though?!? I could have sworn...
Qaetar
09-04-04, 01:42 AM No, character optimization is about making an effective character within the limits of the rules, which should include intent. Not necessarily finding loopholes through RAW.

The reason RAW is primarily used is because everything else is subjective, so it's hard to say where the rule limits should be. We do, however, still discuss intent.

Thus, when something is obviously broken (3.0 Spelldancer) due to RAW ignoring intent, we stop using it RAW in favor of intent.

(Qaetar)
MoogleEmpMog
09-04-04, 02:22 AM No, character optimization is about making an effective character within the limits of the rules, which should include intent. Not necessarily finding loopholes through RAW.

The reason RAW is primarily used is because everything else is subjective, so it's hard to say where the rule limits should be. We do, however, still discuss intent.

Thus, when something is obviously broken (3.0 Spelldancer) due to RAW ignoring intent, we stop using it RAW in favor of intent.

(Qaetar)

Actually, pointing out the broken loopholes in the RAW provides a valuable service.

With that said, I wouldn't allow Ability Focus to apply to spells IMC.
Cold Napalm
09-04-04, 02:47 AM Umm I seems to remember a rule's lawyer tourney...

In any case I don't really like discussing intent of other people...It just reminds me too much of the fuss Gore made (Yeah I know the intent of the voters, all those dimples for are for me...and those votes for buchannan too...ICK My jaws droped when he said he knows the intent of the voters). Intent is fuzzy grey area, rules are in black and white. Until I see it in an errata, rules are rules...even if poorly written and half baked.

And to think, people always say I'm so chaotic...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SuperThread 09-03-04, 01:39 PM	The feat 'Ability Focus' from the SRD allows a character/monster to choose a special attack, which then gets +2 to all save DCs associated with it. In the description of monsters, 'Spells' are listed as special attacks. Ability Focus: Spells therefore gives +2 DCs. Does this trick work?
catharz 09-03-04, 02:06 PM	It should work, and I only think it is broken in relation to existing spell-DC increasing feats. The problem isn't Ability focus, it is how the relation of Spells and Spell-like abilities are defined. After all, Quicken spell-like ability (from BoVD) allowed you to Quicken every spell youu character could cast once per day (each).
Sir Gummibaerchen 09-03-04, 02:16 PM	After all, Quicken spell-like ability (from BoVD) allowed you to Quicken every spell youu character could cast once per day (each). Come again? How is that so (without books, so I don't have the exact verbing)?
flamefist drunkenmonk 09-03-04, 03:09 PM	this might not be right... but doesnt it have to be an ability or something ... doesnt that exclude spells ? or is it written so its ikky like that
Razorblade Smile 09-03-04, 03:50 PM	I have no idea what he was smoking, but Quicken Spell-Like Ability is quite explicit in that it only functions with a character's spell-like abilities, and only those spell-like abilities that don't duplicate a spell with a casting time greater than one full round. It has zero effect on a character's ability to cast spells.
catharz 09-03-04, 04:03 PM	Come again? How is that so (without books, so I don't have the exact verbing)? In 3.0, spells were spell-like abilities.
flamefist drunkenmonk 09-03-04, 05:13 PM	ohh... 3.0 ... yea i remember something about that
Qaetar 09-03-04, 09:57 PM	Where are they listed as Sp in 3.0? Just to continue the tangent? (Qaetar)
Penguin Master 09-03-04, 11:02 PM	You can take spells as the selection for Ability Focus. The prerequisite for ability focus is Special Attack. And if you look at the description it says, choose any special attack. Then if you look at the monsters that can cast spells they are listed under Special Attacks. Ex: Ghaele Eladrin MM pg 94-95, Hound Archon MM pg 16-17, Aboleth Mage MM pg 9.
Qaetar 09-04-04, 12:31 AM	Okay, time to take a time out from RAW. I know this is shunned upon when it weakens characters but obviously intent should rule the day here. Since the PH came out far before SS and the 3.5 PH also includes Spell Focus, and including the fact that Spell Focus was nerfed, Ability Focus should not be usable on Spells. (Qaetar)
Cold Napalm 09-04-04, 01:32 AM	Umm arent we about finding these broken loop holes though?!? I could have sworn...
Qaetar 09-04-04, 01:42 AM	No, character optimization is about making an effective character within the limits of the rules, which should include intent. Not necessarily finding loopholes through RAW. The reason RAW is primarily used is because everything else is subjective, so it's hard to say where the rule limits should be. We do, however, still discuss intent. Thus, when something is obviously broken (3.0 Spelldancer) due to RAW ignoring intent, we stop using it RAW in favor of intent. (Qaetar)
MoogleEmpMog 09-04-04, 02:22 AM	No, character optimization is about making an effective character within the limits of the rules, which should include intent. Not necessarily finding loopholes through RAW. The reason RAW is primarily used is because everything else is subjective, so it's hard to say where the rule limits should be. We do, however, still discuss intent. Thus, when something is obviously broken (3.0 Spelldancer) due to RAW ignoring intent, we stop using it RAW in favor of intent. (Qaetar) Actually, pointing out the broken loopholes in the RAW provides a valuable service. With that said, I wouldn't allow Ability Focus to apply to spells IMC.
Cold Napalm 09-04-04, 02:47 AM	Umm I seems to remember a rule's lawyer tourney... In any case I don't really like discussing intent of other people...It just reminds me too much of the fuss Gore made (Yeah I know the intent of the voters, all those dimples for are for me...and those votes for buchannan too...ICK My jaws droped when he said he knows the intent of the voters). Intent is fuzzy grey area, rules are in black and white. Until I see it in an errata, rules are rules...even if poorly written and half baked. And to think, people always say I'm so chaotic...