Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Double M 06-14-06, 02:03 PM	Hey all, I'm starting a new campaign with a 26 pt. buy human druid who will focus primarily on wild shaping and buffing himself and his animal companion. We are using 3.5 only, so no MotW or other 3.0 splat. I've read through both excellent druid handbook threads contained here and they suggest Wisdom and Con as key with Int as a tertiary stat. Does anyone have an idea whether it might be best to simply put an 18 into Wis, so that the stats look like so: S-8, D-8, C-13, I-12, W-18, C-8? The campaign will begin at level 1 and likely go through 15-20. How might you otherwise arrange them and why? Thanks
cultjake 06-14-06, 02:43 PM	The stats you list are a 25 pt buy, not 26. If you're playing from level 1, I don't think you can afford to be so stingy with your physical stats. You've got 4 levels to survive before you can do any wildshaping. I'd go human (26 pts): str 10, dex 10, con 14, int 10, wis 17, cha 9 int is a tertiary stat, as a human, there isn't any need to have more than a 10 that'll net you 4 skills you don't want to dump too much cha, handle animal is based on this stat con needs to be high......consider even: str 10, dex 10, con 16, int 10, wis 16, cha 8
LouSapphire 06-14-06, 02:51 PM	For a druid concentrating on Wildshape you have 2 important stats. Wis and Con. Choose which one you want to prefer by the role you see yourself filling, if you will be casting/healing then boost wis, if you'll be in combat Con. Are you willing to take lvls in PrC's that have no increase in spellcasting? If so Master of many forms is a great way to increase your wildshaping potential. I'll try and help more when I have more info.
Double M 06-14-06, 03:43 PM	Thanks for you input thus far. I'll be focusing primarily on wildshape and melee combat, but I intend to make full use of my spell casting abilities for buffing and direct offense spells, so I don't think that I want to sacrifice a caster level for the MOMF PrC. I know that I need to survive through level 5, but I intend to stand back and let my Animal Companion do most of the heavy hitting until then and since our point buy is so low and Wild shape will give huge physical stats later on, I'm begrudgingly hesitant to put 10's into Str and Dex. I'm still not totally sure why Con should be really high either, since most of the forms I'll wildshape into later on will be very high Con (except for situational wildshapes). I've never played a druid before and am relatively new to optimization as a class skill :D
Ashlan 06-14-06, 04:28 PM	I'm still not totally sure why Con should be really high either, since most of the forms I'll wildshape into later on will be very high Con (except for situational wildshapes). I've never played a druid before and am relatively new to optimization as a class skill :D The reason to make Con high is that the newest rulings on Wild Shape state that your hitpoints do not change based on the Con of the form you shift into. Ash
Double M 06-14-06, 04:53 PM	The reason to make Con high is that the newest rulings on Wild Shape state that your hitpoints do not change based on the Con of the form you shift into. Seriously, doesn't that substantially nerf one of the main attractions to melee wildshaping? Well now, at least, I understand why the need for a high con. Other thoughts on ability point distribution or other? TIA
LogicNinja 06-14-06, 05:05 PM	Seriously, doesn't that substantially nerf one of the main attractions to melee wildshaping? Yes. That was kind of the point. There were way too many attractions to melee wildshaping.
FiestFan 06-14-06, 05:30 PM	str 10, dex 10, con 14, int 10, wis 17, cha 9 I'd probably drop WIS one and wind up STR 10 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 16 CHA 10, personally. The extra INT comes in useful for those times in between fights when you'd like to contribute useful information.
jameswilliamogle 06-14-06, 05:36 PM	I recommend going to an 8 Str, and maybe even an 8 Dex initially. You really only need to focus on Wis and Con. So, Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10 (slightly better w/ a XBow at low levels) Str 8, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10 (better in the long run for HP's) Str 8, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 10 (better in the long run for casting) Str 8, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8 (extreme DC's - not what OP asked for) Str 8, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 8 (good all around, I think) I'd play the last array. Past level 6 or so, 1 point of Cha bonus won't impact you too much. Skills should be Handle Animal (until you can take 10 to hit a 20 DC, unless you want to train magical beasts, in which case you should go up to 30), Concentration, Knowledge: Nature (until 5 ranks at least), Survival
Double M 06-14-06, 08:37 PM	james, Thanks for your very thorough response. Is the increased Dex primarily for AC while non wildshaped? Because I hadn't really been considering anything above a 10. Other thoughts?
Tenken 06-15-06, 08:00 AM	Since you're getting plenty help in the ability score distribution, I figure I'd focus my advice on the animal companion part. But to do that, I guess I need a bit more info. Will your DM allow you to control the animal as if it were smart? I mean, will it just attack the nearest enemy, or will you be able to use tactics with it? Because you may need to take Arcane Hierophant to be able to control your animal so that it's like another character: smart, able to communicate with you intelligently, and able to attack with tactics.
jameswilliamogle 06-15-06, 09:27 AM	james, Thanks for your very thorough response. Is the increased Dex primarily for AC while non wildshaped? Because I hadn't really been considering anything above a 10. Other thoughts?Both that, for the XBow usage before Wildshape levels, and in case you wanted to take the Dodge feat tree someday. You could switch Dex and Cha, or even put an extra point in Con and put 1 point in Cha, but the differences are so small that I don't think it really matters.
Double M 06-15-06, 10:33 AM	Thank you guys for your help. Tenken I imagine that my new DM will probably be relatively lenient with my animal companion control. He won't, however, allow me to control the companion until I've used handle animal to train her for the various tricks that I may want her to use, i.e., if I had a wolf and wanted her to trip one opponent but not another, I'd probably have to have trained her with some sort of specific voice command, for example, to insure compliance (perhaps with a free action handle animal check during my turn). I doubt, however, that without the use of magic, I'll be able to communicate with the animal intelligently other than with basic voice commands and hand signals and I'm sure that I won't be able to receive any intelligent information from the animal...but who knows maybe I'll get a liberal interpretation of wild empathy from the DM.
jameswilliamogle 06-15-06, 10:44 AM	The only tricks you'll need: Attack, Attack Guard Down Heel Aid Attack Seek
Double M 06-15-06, 04:09 PM	How do you all feel about a vow of poverty druid, now that wildshaping has nerfed possessions and considering the various problems associated with wildshaping into the Legendary ape so that you can keep all of your gear up and working (MM2 is 3.0, humanoid doesn't necessarily mean able to use and wear everything that a human does, "familiarity," etc.)? I guess this is hijacking my own thread...so bad me, bad! Other thoughts on non-exalted druid issues like how to use your animal companion in combat and ability scores are certainly welcome. Thanks