Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DeimoZz 10-24-06, 04:28 PM	Hi, I was flipping through the pages of the complete mage and my eye fell on the Abjurant Champion prestige class. I believe you can make a simple but effective Gish with this beauty. (I don't think you'll have a hard time convincing your DM that Mage Armor should be treated as an abjuration for this class.) While the general class lay out came to me easy enough, I'm having a harder time filling the feats. The build only has one prereq. feat!! I was thinking it to be something along these lines: Human Fighter 1/ Wizard 4/ Eldritch knight 9 / Abjurant Champion 5 And in this order Fighter [?] [?] [?] Wizard scribe Scroll Wizard Combat Casting Wizard Wizard Spellsword Arcane Strike Eldritch knight [?] Abjurant Champion Abjurant Champion [?] Abjurant Champion Abjurant Champion Abjurant Champion [?] Eldritch knight Eldritch knight Eldritch knight [?] Eldritch knight Eldritch knight Eldritch knight [?] Eldritch knight Eldritch knight So there's 8 feats left to fill that I could use some help with, maybe something like power attack or improved toughness?? Or if someone knows a groovy abjuration from maybe the wujen list it maybe nice to get it through extra spell. And another thingy, is it worth while to specialize in abjuration and maybe even take the Specialist Wizard variant from complete mage? Otherwise I think I will be running out of mage armors and shields quickly. So any comments, advice? Thanks in advance.
ForgottenCode 10-24-06, 05:00 PM	Check out Zarzak's post in the Gish thread. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10389317&postcount=821
Prominence 10-24-06, 05:57 PM	though note his first build is wrong, it's +1 ac per spell with abjurant champion 5.
Caelic 10-24-06, 05:59 PM	Well, +1 AC per spell that grants an armor or shield bonus, so only a potential +2 AC...still better than the +1 noted, though. I like adding a dip into Argent Savant, for an ADDITIONAL +2 AC for each of those spells. +13 from Greater Mage Armor and +11 from Shield. Not bad. :)
HotSake 10-24-06, 06:01 PM	I don't think you'll have a hard time convincing your DM that Mage Armor should be treated as an abjuration for this class. Speaking of that, does anyone know of an Abjuration spell that gives an armor bonus? I've been flipping through Crystal Keep's Sor/Wiz index, and haven't found one yet.
TheOne 10-24-06, 07:55 PM	Luminous armor and it's greater cousin from BoED
Lord_of_Omnipotence 10-24-06, 09:49 PM	Human Fighter 1/ Wizard 4/ Eldritch knight 9 / Abjurant Champion 5 And in this order Fighter [?] [?] [?] Wizard scribe Scroll Wizard Combat Casting Wizard Wizard Spellsword Arcane Strike Eldritch knight [?] Abjurant Champion Abjurant Champion [?] Abjurant Champion Abjurant Champion Abjurant Champion [?] Eldritch knight Eldritch knight Eldritch knight [?] Eldritch knight Eldritch knight Eldritch knight [?] Eldritch knight Eldritch knight Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure that the spellsword requires +4 BAB to qualify for it. Your build only grants you +3 when you take spellsword.
zarzak 10-24-06, 11:10 PM	Well, +1 AC per spell that grants an armor or shield bonus, so only a potential +2 AC...still better than the +1 noted, though. I like adding a dip into Argent Savant, for an ADDITIONAL +2 AC for each of those spells. +13 from Greater Mage Armor and +11 from Shield. Not bad. :) Argent Savant is a bit of a trade-off because of low hp and low bab ... and you lose a caster level, don't you? I'm not quite sure if thats worth the +4 AC you'd be getting, especially since you can't take the prc until high levels. But, I guess its more a personal call.
HotSake 10-25-06, 08:48 AM	Luminous armor and it's greater cousin from BoED And it's not even an arcane spell. Still looking for a use for that extra armor bonus... Mage Armor really should be abjuration. It's a protection spell, not summoning or creation. If the spell actually made a suit of armor that'd be one thing, but this is just a field of force.
Seeker of Undeath 10-25-06, 10:20 AM	You might be able to pull off something like Fighter1/Abjurer4/AbjurationSpecialist2/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion5/EldritchKnight7. If you're gishing it up, you probably should consider the Power Attack + Wraithstrike + Arcane Strike trick. Since your forte is protection and prevention, being able to dump slots for raw damage would be a nice change up. I'd consider making Wraithstrike a Signature Spell, but it's not necessary (unless of course you follow the suggestion below; in which case you're not going to have as many non-abjuration options most of the time). Also consider that Focused Specialist option from Complete Mage. In case I messed up the name, it's the class variant for specialist wizards that has you give up one more school of magic and one general spell slot of every spell level in exchange for two abjuration-only spell slots of every spell level. You could probably drop Evocation, Enchantment, and (though I hate to say it) Necromancy. As I look back on it, it might not be worth it to squeeze in those levels of Master Specialist (or whatever). I'd probably rather have the Wizard bonus feat to play with. Since you're going to be a preventative gish, you might also consider Rapid Counterspell. At least that's the how I seem to remember the feat's name. Assuming I'm not dreaming, it should be in Complete Divine (as I looked through Complete Arcane two days ago and didn't find it). I'm sure other boardmembers can correct my mistakes.
FriendlyFrog 10-25-06, 01:33 PM	And it's not even an arcane spell. Still looking for a use for that extra armor bonus... Wizards can use sanctified spells, which are arcane for them.
canadianguy 10-25-06, 09:21 PM	Would a dwarf and levels of runesmith work well with this concept.
Lord_of_Omnipotence 10-25-06, 09:25 PM	I'd personally recommend: wizard5/knightphantom10/abjurantchampion5 17 BAB and 19 CL
HotSake 10-26-06, 08:25 AM	Wizards can use sanctified spells, which are arcane for them. Thanks. I saw the spell description and thought it was a domain. Still a pain to get for your standard gish build.
DeimoZz 10-26-06, 11:10 AM	Oops I've made a mistake so the build should either be Fighter 1/ Abjurer 6 / EK 8 / Abjurant Champion 5 I don't it matters that much wether you choose knight Phantom or EK the classes both classes have their advantages. Knight phanthom is a little bit stronger and EK is easier to acces in terms of campaign setting and background prereqs. (note that the posted Knight Phantom build is illegal though, you dont have the martial wepon prof. to qualify for the prc.) Argent Savant sounds cool for tweaking it out indeed but I think +1 bab and +1 caster lvl is better then the armor bonus it gives. (More spells for that selfbuff class feature from the Abj. Champ.) Rapid Counterspell suods good, where is it from?? I guess with abjuration focus I willl use dispel magic alot. Are there any other good feats along that line that you guys know of? Ow and I should have thought of the power attack wraithstrike thingie. So sofar I'm at Power Attack, Combat casting and Arcane strike. Three down eight to go :) EDIT: I almost forgot, the focused specialist sounds nice, as more spells always is. I think I''l have to add it to the lsit aswell
Lord_of_Omnipotence 10-28-06, 10:02 PM	You can get martial weapon proficiency by being an outsider or taking the militia feat.
Kuroi Kenshi 10-28-06, 10:22 PM	I don't think you can get arcane strike at level 6 due to prereqs. You'll have to wait till 9th or 12th.
zarzak 10-29-06, 12:32 AM	I don't it matters that much wether you choose knight Phantom or EK the classes both classes have their advantages. Knight phanthom is a little bit stronger and EK is easier to acces in terms of campaign setting and background prereqs. (note that the posted Knight Phantom build is illegal though, you dont have the martial wepon prof. to qualify for the prc.) The militia feat gives all martial weapon proficiencies (make sure you look at the one in the Players Guide to Faerun).