Post/Author/DateTime	Post
abjurer 11-21-05, 04:42 AM	maybe this should be placed in the spells and magic forum but since I see there is a lot of interest (and a Vow of Non-Templating going on...) on this board I put it here so keep tight... we already allow templates to be used with polymorph... BUT The LA of the template is counted against the HD limit (an half-celestial troll, 6HD + 4LA, can be done at caster level 10). This rules out templates not meant for PC because only those listing the LA are allowed. Familiarity required. You need a knowledge (appropriate skill) check to know the form (MUST take 10, you cannot roll nor take 20). DCs: alter self 10+HD, polymorph 15+HD, shapechange 20+HD. if the creature CR is higher than its HD use that. The appropriate skill for each monster types are in the PHB under the knowledge skill description. if more than one type is involved you need to do check all the relevant knowledges (for a half-dragon troll you need both arcana and nature). An encounter with the creature (or even repeated ones) does not give familiarity. advanced forms of creatures? sure, just make the above check. and about feats... You retain the feats of your original form (original = your form before any polymorphic effect, not the one right before your next polymorphic effect !!!). You do not gain any feats of your new form. Exception: elemental wild shape, or a polymorphic effect that ALSO gives you access to the spell-like abilities of the creature (I don't know if such a transformation exists but if it can give you even its spell-like abilities then you deserve also the feats) what do you think? We find this house rules fit us well. however, we are not extreme munchkins(just a little) so it is very likely it is possible to break these rules,too. but these rules are not meant to stop munchkins they are simply what we feel should be handled polymorphic effects. any comments?
deathwishjoe 11-21-05, 05:38 AM	while not as game breaking as the current rules set which I feel is allmost on level with pun-pun it is still probably overpowered. there are many underpriced templates such as ferral and mineral warrior that when added to an underpriced monster like wartroll or a fleshraker put you at a level above those who do not have a shapechanging ability.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-21-05, 05:51 AM	No. The text says you cannot do this. I don't care WHAT that crack-addled, game-crazed idiot says, YOU CANNOT POLYMORPH INTO A TEMPLATED CREATURE. THERE ARE NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT.
deathwishjoe 11-21-05, 05:56 AM	tsuyoshikentsu take a chill pill. while I agree that the new rules leaves gaping holes ripe for so much abuse it makes me sick to my stomach that doesnt mean you need to jump down someones throat. essentially the OP is discussing a houserule. it was a house rule before the FAQ and its still a house rule after the FAQ (is that a pun?). just for different reasons. remember if it not constructive its probably btter to keep quiet.
abjurer 11-21-05, 05:57 AM	while not as game breaking as the current rules set which I feel is allmost on level with pun-pun it is still probably overpowered. there are many underpriced templates such as ferral and mineral warrior that when added to an underpriced monster like wartroll or a fleshraker put you at a level above those who do not have a shapechanging ability. sure. as I said out house rules are not break-proof. However, I see that more as a problem of underpriced templates... TO tsuyoshikentsu: what are you talking about? those are not the official rules. I was talking about our house rules.
X-Codes 11-21-05, 05:59 AM	Feral War Troll. Even nastier if you can get the SQ's or use Shapechange. I'm just throwing things out there. +20 NA SA: Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake, Rend, Dazing Blow SQ: DR 5/Adamanite, Darkvision 120', Regen 9, Fast Heal 5 Knowledge (arcana) DC: 28 Seriously... any Master Transmogrifist or Master of Many Forms will PWN this houserule. If you think a Knowledge check is going to deter that then all it takes is the Educated feat and cherry picking of knowledge skills.
tsuyoshikentsu 11-21-05, 06:48 AM	what are you talking about? those are not the official rules. I was talking about our house rules. I was under the impression we didn't default to houserules here. And before you even say it, the Sage < Core book text IMO.
PhoenixInferno 11-21-05, 09:34 AM	Speaking of House Rules, this thread should really belong at the Unearthed Arcana and House Rules (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=480) forum. An intelligent house rule (doesn't matter what it is particularly) should be able to balance the desire to change into the form of a templated creature.