About to play in my first evil campaign, Ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

About to play in my first evil campaign, Ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ksbsnowowl
08-31-05, 10:41 AM By the happenstance of pure luck I've found a gaming group that is just about to lose a guy, and were looking for a new player. They're just about to start a new campaign at 5th level, and the characters are lawful evil (my first evil campaign). Information is a bit sketchy at this point, though hopefully by the end of today I'll have gotten more info from the DM.

Here is a copy of my e-mailed request for additional info, and the response I've gotten thus far.Just a few questions so I can start brainstorming a character while waiting for Chad to get a hold of me.

I know you use the 3.5 rules set, but what supplemental material does your group allow? Any 3.5 material? All third edition material with 3.5 updates superceding 3.0 stuff? Core only? Campaign Setting restrictions?

Do you play in a published setting or homebrew? (I have a large Forgotten Realms supplement collection, and am starting to get some Eberron material)

What level are you guys currently playing at? What is the basic party composition? Method of stat generation (point buy? standard 4d6 drop lowest?)For the basics, the DM allowed us to use any 3.5 material. we can use 3.0 but the updated 3.5 version of them. We just started a new game. This is our first ever "evil" campaign. I have only played in one before and I didn't like it. The DM has done a good job with the reasoning behind this game. We're all Lawful Evil (I believe) and we work for a man with strict goals and expectations. We're not a bunch of raving lunatics randomly killing peasants. We are currently trying to take over an outpost between 2 city-states. It's more of a Greek city-state competition than an evil game.

The DM used the point buy (32 points I think) but is flexible in creation. We're the equivalent of 5th level. We have a human cleric 5, human urban ranger 5, and I'm a Monk1/Psichic warrior 2. This is also the first time we're trying psionics. We have much room for improvement in the group. We need a heavy hitter, a mage, a healer cleric, a rogue...almost any class. You won't even have to be evil as long as you are loyal to our city-state.

This is in the Kalamar setting, I personally know nothing about it but the others have some materials. The DM did limit our starting gear and he can give you more info. We had limited access to items but he gave us a decent magical item to start. This is a good time to join since we're about to take over the fort and we have lots of NPC's (or your character) we're about to meet.Note: I realize help may be sparse until I get more concrete info, but any help with some basic ideas would be helpful.

It wasn't all that clear, but it looks like I can use any third edition material, with 3.5 superceeding where applicable. Here is a list of the books I currently have access to:

The 3 core books (3.0)
-Player’s Handbook (PHB)
-Dungeon Master’s Guide (DMG)
-Monster Manual (MM)
The 3.5 SRD
The 5 class ‘splat’ books
-Defenders of the Faith (DotF)
-Masters of the Wild (MotW)
-Song & Silence (S&S)
-Sword & Fist (S&F)
-Tome & Blood (T&B)
The Epic Level Handbook (ELH)
Deities & Demigods (D&Dg)
Manual of the Planes (MotP)
The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (FRCS)
Champions of Ruin [FRCS accessory] (CoR)
City of Splendors: Waterdeep [FRCS accessory] (CoS:Wd)
Lost Empires of Faerun [FRCS accessory] (LeoF)
Magic of Faerun [FRCS accessory] (MaF)
Races of Faerun [FRCS accessory] (RoF)
Shining South [FRCS accessory] (SSo)
Silver Marches [FRCS accessory] (SM)
Unapproachable East [FRCS accessory] (UE)
Underdark [FRCS accessory] (Und)
The Eberron Campaign Setting (ECS)
Explorer’s Handbook [ECS accessory] (ExH)
Five Nations [ECS accessory] (FN) - not for a few days yet
Oriental Adventures (OA)
Rokugan Campaign Setting (RCS)
Magic of Rokugan (MoR)
The Draconomicon (Drac)
Heroes of Battle (HoB)
Stormwrack (StWr)
Miniatures Handbook
The Psionics Handbook
The 3rd party book If Thoughts Could Kill – contains variant Psionic rules and PrC’s
Monster Manual II (MMII)
Fiend Folio (FF)
Monsters of Faerun
Creatures of Rokugan (CoRo)

I don't own the 3.5 XPH, and I really am not looking for a psionic character.

As was mentioned in the e-mail, we're 5th level, I've got 32 point buy for stats, and the group needs a mage (among other things)

So, my initial thought is to make one of the archetypes needed, and at 6th level take leadership to get one of the other archetypes needed, but at this point am undecided which type of character to pick for either one. Here are a few basic ideas:

A (Dwarven?) spiked chain weilder with a small splash of Wizard (to get True Strike), and possibly heading into Runesmith (I'll pick up RoS if this has merit), who focuses on disarming (TS followed by an unarmed disarm - yoink that mage's wand....) Perhaps going into Dwarven Defender or Black Guard.

A varient on my Sniper Archer build that uses a dip into Black Guard to get Corrupt Weapon (I realize there will be a three-feat loss to do this.....maybe Power Shot will count as a virtual Power Attack....) Not exactly the most optimised, but it might work. (I also don't want to come in and be a super-crunched d*ckhead with a new DM - so this is probably a no-go)

Some type of Mage (Warmage? Wizard with War Weaver?) with a tank for a cohort (hopefully working in the Allied Defense feat from Shining South)

Given the alignment and the basic set-up (capturing/defending a city) Druid probably wouldn't work that well, but perhaps a good cleric build would work (never played one before).

Any other ideas? I'm somewhat at a loss as to what I should play at the moment. I guess what I'm looking for is a little help choosing and coming up with a basic character idea, and then I'll refine that before presenting it back to the board for critique.

Also, I know nothing of the Kalamar setting, so any insight there would be helpful.

And again, I don't want to overwhelm my new DM and get him ****** at me, I'm just looking for effective ideas. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I got in touch with the DM, and the rules are fairly well an optimizer's dream.... 3.5 rules, all WotC sources, using updates where applicable, no campaign source restrictions. It's an evil campaign, but the DM wants to see some PrC's in action, and he want's to test the limits of the system. Anything blatently broken will be toned down (Hulking Hurler, etc), but within reason, I have a free range of options. The setting is a tad bit low magic, it is "[his] version of Kalamar", with the book material being "mostly accurate," and "Magic in the setting is present but lower key, mages are there but not common, and a weapon or artifact of power might set entire nations on the move or warfare to gain it. So if they are around they usually aren't openly displayed or
discussed."

The options are just so juicy..... I think I might have to finally (!) play my Combat Archer (slightly modified for 3.5), with the possibility trying to pick up an artificier as a cohort at 9th level.

I know I seem a bit scatterbrained here.....I'm trying to weight what I really want to play versus what the group needs..... I'll probably go with a Human Phantom Knight and get a heavy-hitting fighter/tactical soldier/Blackguard cohort at 6th level.

Right now I'm looking at building him this way:Human Feats

1 Fighter Comb Exp, Imp Disarm, *
2 Wizard Scribe Scroll
3 Wizard *
4 Wizard
5 Wizard
6 Wizard Still Spell, Leadership
7 Phant Kn
8 Phant Kn
9+ Phant Kn *

*Undecided featI've decided that due to the rarity of magic in the setting, I'm going to drop the spiked chain in favor of a heavy flail. I'll probably be more likely to come across a magic flail than a spiked chain, and I want to keep my weapon options open in even of whatever weapons are found. I might also carry a ransuer, I'm not sure. Although I might do a bit of tripping, that won't be my focus, and if I trip with my flail, I don't get an AoO against me anyway, so I don't think I'll take that.

I am thinking of taking Jotunbrud as my additional first level feat, as it will apply to trips when I make them, but it will also off-set the light weapon penalty when attempting to disarm while unarmed (or am I wrong on that?) Any additional thoughts are welcome.
PhaedrusXY
08-31-05, 12:07 PM I think the dwarven gish idea sounds like fun. Think they'd let you use the Phantom Knight PrC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm)? An evil dwarf with a spiked chain riding on a wispy, insubstantial horse sounds pretty menacing. :D It sounds like they don't have an arcane caster at all, either. So I'd go with a more caster focused build I think.

Since Tripping doesn't involve your BAB at all, being more casting focused won't affect your ability to do that. And with the dwarven con bonus, you should have decent hit points, even with several d4 hit dice. I'd probably just start out as a Fighter1/Wiz4, then add on another Wiz level and then Phantom Knight.
Faithless the Wonder Boy
08-31-05, 12:27 PM Some odd synchronicity there, I was literally looking at the Five Nations excerpt of the Knight Phantom and coming up with a build for one, then I opened this post...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4 is, by the way, the Excerpt for it, with complete info. I'd second that, and I'd love to see a decent Knight Phantom build, because I think thematically it's a very cool class, and one of the best options I've seen for a while for a gish. Granted, Still Spell (a pre-req) becomes semi-useless once you take a level in it and ignore ASF for light armor, but eh...

Anyways, starting out I guess Fighter 1/Wizard 4 is probably your best bet at level 5 as Phaedrus suggested. It's pretty simple to keep a gish sane enough to keep from taking over the campaign, while still being decently optimized enough to stand up with the best of them.

I do wonder about tripping mechanics from atop a Phantom Steed. If you're tripped in return, do you get knocked off your steed? Or is, perhaps, the steed tripped? How does it come into play that the steed is actually an insubstantial horse composed of energy that never actually touches the ground? And if were under an Aspect of the Phantom (with or without the steed), would you still be able to be tripped without any modifications? Some things I wonder about...
canadianguy
08-31-05, 01:17 PM Hi,
How about a warlock?
You can blast and pick up some other great abilities.
If you still want to go leaderhsip feat your cha is your primary stat!
Play human and consider picking up 2 levels in chameleon and you will eventually be an excellent magic item crafter as well.
Lilt
08-31-05, 01:53 PM The gish idea looks nice. Phantom Knight is cool. If you're really interested in Runesmith then you can do them both and go:
Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Runesmith 1/Phantom Knight X
That's down one wizard feat, but up the ability to cast in any armor (even Full Plate). Although it somewhat wastes Phantom Knight's 1st level ability somewhat, and the Still Spell feat you paid to get into it, being able to cast in Heavy armor with a heavy shield is better than being able to cast in light or medium armor. Still Spell is still extremely useful for builds like these, however, as nobody (not even non-wizards) should be without a stilled Grease or Dimension Door for when things go bad in a grapple.

Plus the idea of a full-plate-bearing, rune-covered, spiked-chain-wielding dwarf riding on a wispy, insubstantial horse is even more intimidating.
PonTelon
08-31-05, 02:08 PM Hi,
How about a warlock?
You can blast and pick up some other great abilities.
If you still want to go leaderhsip feat your cha is your primary stat!
Play human and consider picking up 2 levels in chameleon and you will eventually be an excellent magic item crafter as well.
I second Warlock, as it's just that awesome of a class.

Dwarven Wizard Runesmiths are just plain cool. It'd help make you a decent Gish(btw, where does that term come from?).
Lilt
08-31-05, 02:18 PM btw, where does that term come from?
An explanation can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119839) which is linked from the 3.5 gish thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=150451).
PhoenixInferno
08-31-05, 03:21 PM You had a build in your Archer thread that used the Justicar of Weald and Woe - they're technically part of an evil organization, why not try that?
MechaboyDos
08-31-05, 03:28 PM You could always go with the Cha abuse of a Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard with 3xCha to saves. And then take that Feat from Kalamar that lets you add your Con as a luck bonus to saves. I'm sure the DM would find it rather evil. :D
ksbsnowowl
08-31-05, 07:44 PM You had a build in your Archer thread that used the Justicar of Weald and Woe - they're technically part of an evil organization, why not try that?Because of the premise of the campaign. The Justices of the Weald and Woe hate humans and large civilization, while our campaign will be fighting for one city-state against another.

Unfortunately I haven't heard from the DM yet, so things are still a bit sketchy concerning sources, though the Phantom Knight does seem like a good option; I'm certainly considering it.

If I do go with the gish build, the role of blaster mage is not my goal. Sure, I'll have the occational Fireball and such prepared, but I'll be a Diviner (sans enchantment), and I'll focus on buffs and battlefield control spells.

Another idea I had late this morning was to become a bit of a combat sneak attacker. Three levels in Rogue and then some Fighter, eventually going into Blackguard and dipping one or two levels of Tactical Soldier (MiniHB) to get the Flanker ability (and possibly Sidestep). That would get me a respectible amount of sneak attack and the Flanker ability would help me to get sneak attacks more often.

It's so hard to choose....
ksbsnowowl
09-01-05, 12:37 PM I've edited the following into the first post:Well, I got in touch with the DM, and the rules are fairly well an optimizer's dream.... 3.5 rules, all WotC sources, using updates where applicable, no campaign source restrictions. It's an evil campaign, but the DM wants to see some PrC's in action, and he want's to test the limits of the system. Anything blatently broken will be toned down (Hulking Hurler, etc), but within reason, I have a free range of options. The setting is a tad bit low magic, it is "[his] version of Kalamar", with the book material being "mostly accurate," and "Magic in the setting is present but lower key, mages are there but not common, and a weapon or artifact of power might set entire nations on the move or warfare to gain it. So if they are around they usually aren't openly displayed or
discussed."

The options are just so juicy..... I think I might have to finally (!) play my Combat Archer (slightly modified for 3.5), with the possibility trying to pick up an artificier as a cohort at 9th level.

I know I seem a bit scatterbrained here.....I'm trying to weight what I really want to play versus what the group needs..... I'll probably go with a Human Phantom Knight and get a heavy-hitting fighter/tactical soldier/Blackguard cohort at 6th level.

Right now I'm looking at building him this way:Human Feats

1 Fighter Comb Exp, Imp Disarm, *
2 Wizard Scribe Scroll
3 Wizard *
4 Wizard
5 Wizard
6 Wizard Still Spell, Leadership
7 Phant Kn
8 Phant Kn
9+ Phant Kn *

*Undecided featI've decided that due to the rarity of magic in the setting, I'm going to drop the spiked chain in favor of a heavy flail. I'll probably be more likely to come across a magic flail than a spiked chain, and I want to keep my weapon options open in even of whatever weapons are found. I might also carry a ransuer, I'm not sure. Although I might do a bit of tripping, that won't be my focus, and if I trip with my flail, I don't get an AoO against me anyway, so I don't think I'll take that.

I am thinking of taking Jotunbrud as my additional first level feat, as it will apply to trips when I make them, but it will also off-set the light weapon penalty when attempting to disarm while unarmed (or am I wrong on that?) Any additional thoughts are welcome.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ksbsnowowl 08-31-05, 10:41 AM	By the happenstance of pure luck I've found a gaming group that is just about to lose a guy, and were looking for a new player. They're just about to start a new campaign at 5th level, and the characters are lawful evil (my first evil campaign). Information is a bit sketchy at this point, though hopefully by the end of today I'll have gotten more info from the DM. Here is a copy of my e-mailed request for additional info, and the response I've gotten thus far.Just a few questions so I can start brainstorming a character while waiting for Chad to get a hold of me. I know you use the 3.5 rules set, but what supplemental material does your group allow? Any 3.5 material? All third edition material with 3.5 updates superceding 3.0 stuff? Core only? Campaign Setting restrictions? Do you play in a published setting or homebrew? (I have a large Forgotten Realms supplement collection, and am starting to get some Eberron material) What level are you guys currently playing at? What is the basic party composition? Method of stat generation (point buy? standard 4d6 drop lowest?)For the basics, the DM allowed us to use any 3.5 material. we can use 3.0 but the updated 3.5 version of them. We just started a new game. This is our first ever "evil" campaign. I have only played in one before and I didn't like it. The DM has done a good job with the reasoning behind this game. We're all Lawful Evil (I believe) and we work for a man with strict goals and expectations. We're not a bunch of raving lunatics randomly killing peasants. We are currently trying to take over an outpost between 2 city-states. It's more of a Greek city-state competition than an evil game. The DM used the point buy (32 points I think) but is flexible in creation. We're the equivalent of 5th level. We have a human cleric 5, human urban ranger 5, and I'm a Monk1/Psichic warrior 2. This is also the first time we're trying psionics. We have much room for improvement in the group. We need a heavy hitter, a mage, a healer cleric, a rogue...almost any class. You won't even have to be evil as long as you are loyal to our city-state. This is in the Kalamar setting, I personally know nothing about it but the others have some materials. The DM did limit our starting gear and he can give you more info. We had limited access to items but he gave us a decent magical item to start. This is a good time to join since we're about to take over the fort and we have lots of NPC's (or your character) we're about to meet.Note: I realize help may be sparse until I get more concrete info, but any help with some basic ideas would be helpful. It wasn't all that clear, but it looks like I can use any third edition material, with 3.5 superceeding where applicable. Here is a list of the books I currently have access to: The 3 core books (3.0) -Player’s Handbook (PHB) -Dungeon Master’s Guide (DMG) -Monster Manual (MM) The 3.5 SRD The 5 class ‘splat’ books -Defenders of the Faith (DotF) -Masters of the Wild (MotW) -Song & Silence (S&S) -Sword & Fist (S&F) -Tome & Blood (T&B) The Epic Level Handbook (ELH) Deities & Demigods (D&Dg) Manual of the Planes (MotP) The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (FRCS) Champions of Ruin [FRCS accessory] (CoR) City of Splendors: Waterdeep [FRCS accessory] (CoS:Wd) Lost Empires of Faerun [FRCS accessory] (LeoF) Magic of Faerun [FRCS accessory] (MaF) Races of Faerun [FRCS accessory] (RoF) Shining South [FRCS accessory] (SSo) Silver Marches [FRCS accessory] (SM) Unapproachable East [FRCS accessory] (UE) Underdark [FRCS accessory] (Und) The Eberron Campaign Setting (ECS) Explorer’s Handbook [ECS accessory] (ExH) Five Nations [ECS accessory] (FN) - not for a few days yet Oriental Adventures (OA) Rokugan Campaign Setting (RCS) Magic of Rokugan (MoR) The Draconomicon (Drac) Heroes of Battle (HoB) Stormwrack (StWr) Miniatures Handbook The Psionics Handbook The 3rd party book If Thoughts Could Kill – contains variant Psionic rules and PrC’s Monster Manual II (MMII) Fiend Folio (FF) Monsters of Faerun Creatures of Rokugan (CoRo) I don't own the 3.5 XPH, and I really am not looking for a psionic character. As was mentioned in the e-mail, we're 5th level, I've got 32 point buy for stats, and the group needs a mage (among other things) So, my initial thought is to make one of the archetypes needed, and at 6th level take leadership to get one of the other archetypes needed, but at this point am undecided which type of character to pick for either one. Here are a few basic ideas: A (Dwarven?) spiked chain weilder with a small splash of Wizard (to get True Strike), and possibly heading into Runesmith (I'll pick up RoS if this has merit), who focuses on disarming (TS followed by an unarmed disarm - yoink that mage's wand....) Perhaps going into Dwarven Defender or Black Guard. A varient on my Sniper Archer build that uses a dip into Black Guard to get Corrupt Weapon (I realize there will be a three-feat loss to do this.....maybe Power Shot will count as a virtual Power Attack....) Not exactly the most optimised, but it might work. (I also don't want to come in and be a super-crunched dckhead with a new DM - so this is probably a no-go) Some type of Mage (Warmage? Wizard with War Weaver?) with a tank for a cohort (hopefully working in the Allied Defense feat from Shining South) Given the alignment and the basic set-up (capturing/defending a city) Druid probably wouldn't work that well, but perhaps a good cleric build would work (never played one before). Any other ideas? I'm somewhat at a loss as to what I should play at the moment. I guess what I'm looking for is a little help choosing and coming up with a basic character idea, and then I'll refine that before presenting it back to the board for critique. Also, I know nothing of the Kalamar setting, so any insight there would be helpful. And again, I don't want to overwhelm my new DM and get him ***** at me, I'm just looking for effective ideas. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated. Well, I got in touch with the DM, and the rules are fairly well an optimizer's dream.... 3.5 rules, all WotC sources, using updates where applicable, no campaign source restrictions. It's an evil campaign, but the DM wants to see some PrC's in action, and he want's to test the limits of the system. Anything blatently broken will be toned down (Hulking Hurler, etc), but within reason, I have a free range of options. The setting is a tad bit low magic, it is "[his] version of Kalamar", with the book material being "mostly accurate," and "Magic in the setting is present but lower key, mages are there but not common, and a weapon or artifact of power might set entire nations on the move or warfare to gain it. So if they are around they usually aren't openly displayed or discussed." The options are just so juicy..... I think I might have to finally (!) play my Combat Archer (slightly modified for 3.5), with the possibility trying to pick up an artificier as a cohort at 9th level. I know I seem a bit scatterbrained here.....I'm trying to weight what I really want to play versus what the group needs..... I'll probably go with a Human Phantom Knight and get a heavy-hitting fighter/tactical soldier/Blackguard cohort at 6th level. Right now I'm looking at building him this way:Human Feats 1 Fighter Comb Exp, Imp Disarm, * 2 Wizard Scribe Scroll 3 Wizard * 4 Wizard 5 Wizard 6 Wizard Still Spell, Leadership 7 Phant Kn 8 Phant Kn 9+ Phant Kn * *Undecided featI've decided that due to the rarity of magic in the setting, I'm going to drop the spiked chain in favor of a heavy flail. I'll probably be more likely to come across a magic flail than a spiked chain, and I want to keep my weapon options open in even of whatever weapons are found. I might also carry a ransuer, I'm not sure. Although I might do a bit of tripping, that won't be my focus, and if I trip with my flail, I don't get an AoO against me anyway, so I don't think I'll take that. I am thinking of taking Jotunbrud as my additional first level feat, as it will apply to trips when I make them, but it will also off-set the light weapon penalty when attempting to disarm while unarmed (or am I wrong on that?) Any additional thoughts are welcome.
PhaedrusXY 08-31-05, 12:07 PM	I think the dwarven gish idea sounds like fun. Think they'd let you use the Phantom Knight PrC (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm)? An evil dwarf with a spiked chain riding on a wispy, insubstantial horse sounds pretty menacing. :D It sounds like they don't have an arcane caster at all, either. So I'd go with a more caster focused build I think. Since Tripping doesn't involve your BAB at all, being more casting focused won't affect your ability to do that. And with the dwarven con bonus, you should have decent hit points, even with several d4 hit dice. I'd probably just start out as a Fighter1/Wiz4, then add on another Wiz level and then Phantom Knight.
Faithless the Wonder Boy 08-31-05, 12:27 PM	Some odd synchronicity there, I was literally looking at the Five Nations excerpt of the Knight Phantom and coming up with a build for one, then I opened this post... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4 is, by the way, the Excerpt for it, with complete info. I'd second that, and I'd love to see a decent Knight Phantom build, because I think thematically it's a very cool class, and one of the best options I've seen for a while for a gish. Granted, Still Spell (a pre-req) becomes semi-useless once you take a level in it and ignore ASF for light armor, but eh... Anyways, starting out I guess Fighter 1/Wizard 4 is probably your best bet at level 5 as Phaedrus suggested. It's pretty simple to keep a gish sane enough to keep from taking over the campaign, while still being decently optimized enough to stand up with the best of them. I do wonder about tripping mechanics from atop a Phantom Steed. If you're tripped in return, do you get knocked off your steed? Or is, perhaps, the steed tripped? How does it come into play that the steed is actually an insubstantial horse composed of energy that never actually touches the ground? And if were under an Aspect of the Phantom (with or without the steed), would you still be able to be tripped without any modifications? Some things I wonder about...
canadianguy 08-31-05, 01:17 PM	Hi, How about a warlock? You can blast and pick up some other great abilities. If you still want to go leaderhsip feat your cha is your primary stat! Play human and consider picking up 2 levels in chameleon and you will eventually be an excellent magic item crafter as well.
Lilt 08-31-05, 01:53 PM	The gish idea looks nice. Phantom Knight is cool. If you're really interested in Runesmith then you can do them both and go: Fighter 1/Wizard 4/Runesmith 1/Phantom Knight X That's down one wizard feat, but up the ability to cast in any armor (even Full Plate). Although it somewhat wastes Phantom Knight's 1st level ability somewhat, and the Still Spell feat you paid to get into it, being able to cast in Heavy armor with a heavy shield is better than being able to cast in light or medium armor. Still Spell is still extremely useful for builds like these, however, as nobody (not even non-wizards) should be without a stilled Grease or Dimension Door for when things go bad in a grapple. Plus the idea of a full-plate-bearing, rune-covered, spiked-chain-wielding dwarf riding on a wispy, insubstantial horse is even more intimidating.
PonTelon 08-31-05, 02:08 PM	Hi, How about a warlock? You can blast and pick up some other great abilities. If you still want to go leaderhsip feat your cha is your primary stat! Play human and consider picking up 2 levels in chameleon and you will eventually be an excellent magic item crafter as well. I second Warlock, as it's just that awesome of a class. Dwarven Wizard Runesmiths are just plain cool. It'd help make you a decent Gish(btw, where does that term come from?).
Lilt 08-31-05, 02:18 PM	btw, where does that term come from? An explanation can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119839) which is linked from the 3.5 gish thread here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=150451).
PhoenixInferno 08-31-05, 03:21 PM	You had a build in your Archer thread that used the Justicar of Weald and Woe - they're technically part of an evil organization, why not try that?
MechaboyDos 08-31-05, 03:28 PM	You could always go with the Cha abuse of a Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard with 3xCha to saves. And then take that Feat from Kalamar that lets you add your Con as a luck bonus to saves. I'm sure the DM would find it rather evil. :D
ksbsnowowl 08-31-05, 07:44 PM	You had a build in your Archer thread that used the Justicar of Weald and Woe - they're technically part of an evil organization, why not try that?Because of the premise of the campaign. The Justices of the Weald and Woe hate humans and large civilization, while our campaign will be fighting for one city-state against another. Unfortunately I haven't heard from the DM yet, so things are still a bit sketchy concerning sources, though the Phantom Knight does seem like a good option; I'm certainly considering it. If I do go with the gish build, the role of blaster mage is not my goal. Sure, I'll have the occational Fireball and such prepared, but I'll be a Diviner (sans enchantment), and I'll focus on buffs and battlefield control spells. Another idea I had late this morning was to become a bit of a combat sneak attacker. Three levels in Rogue and then some Fighter, eventually going into Blackguard and dipping one or two levels of Tactical Soldier (MiniHB) to get the Flanker ability (and possibly Sidestep). That would get me a respectible amount of sneak attack and the Flanker ability would help me to get sneak attacks more often. It's so hard to choose....
ksbsnowowl 09-01-05, 12:37 PM	I've edited the following into the first post:Well, I got in touch with the DM, and the rules are fairly well an optimizer's dream.... 3.5 rules, all WotC sources, using updates where applicable, no campaign source restrictions. It's an evil campaign, but the DM wants to see some PrC's in action, and he want's to test the limits of the system. Anything blatently broken will be toned down (Hulking Hurler, etc), but within reason, I have a free range of options. The setting is a tad bit low magic, it is "[his] version of Kalamar", with the book material being "mostly accurate," and "Magic in the setting is present but lower key, mages are there but not common, and a weapon or artifact of power might set entire nations on the move or warfare to gain it. So if they are around they usually aren't openly displayed or discussed." The options are just so juicy..... I think I might have to finally (!) play my Combat Archer (slightly modified for 3.5), with the possibility trying to pick up an artificier as a cohort at 9th level. I know I seem a bit scatterbrained here.....I'm trying to weight what I really want to play versus what the group needs..... I'll probably go with a Human Phantom Knight and get a heavy-hitting fighter/tactical soldier/Blackguard cohort at 6th level. Right now I'm looking at building him this way:Human Feats 1 Fighter Comb Exp, Imp Disarm, * 2 Wizard Scribe Scroll 3 Wizard * 4 Wizard 5 Wizard 6 Wizard Still Spell, Leadership 7 Phant Kn 8 Phant Kn 9+ Phant Kn * *Undecided featI've decided that due to the rarity of magic in the setting, I'm going to drop the spiked chain in favor of a heavy flail. I'll probably be more likely to come across a magic flail than a spiked chain, and I want to keep my weapon options open in even of whatever weapons are found. I might also carry a ransuer, I'm not sure. Although I might do a bit of tripping, that won't be my focus, and if I trip with my flail, I don't get an AoO against me anyway, so I don't think I'll take that. I am thinking of taking Jotunbrud as my additional first level feat, as it will apply to trips when I make them, but it will also off-set the light weapon penalty when attempting to disarm while unarmed (or am I wrong on that?) Any additional thoughts are welcome.