Absolute Destruction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Absolute Destruction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darczero
10-31-04, 02:53 AM Okay, I've got a concept, but few numbers to work with. I need suggestions.

The concept is a Lawful Evil Savior type. He views Humanoids as ignorant sheep that need someone to protect them, often from themselves. Gods are using the mundane peoples of the Prime Material worlds to gain power for themselves. Kings and Emperors exploit the common man (or woman) to collect taxes and get rich on the hard work of others. He plans to stop all this abuse of the mundanes (Sheep as he calls them... sounds good).

The problem I'm having is deciding on an advancement plan. So far, I've decided that I will take the full WS tree (12 levels in Fighter), and will eventually learn Magic (probably Wizard levels, maybe specialist, not sure yet). His focus is on sheer destructive power, but not on uncontrolled destruction: no Rage, no Undead (he hates those too).

And for all you Gish lovers out there, he's a HUMAN. No other choice about that one.

So far, this is what I've got:

1 Monkey Grip
ftr1 Exotic WP: Fullblade
hum1 Weapon Focus: Fullblade
ftr2 Power Attack
3 Iron Will
ftr4 Weapon Specialization: Fullblade
6 Endurance
ftr6 Cleave
ftr8 GWF: Fullblade
9 Diehard
ftr10 Great Cleave
12 ???
ftr12 GWS Fullblade
???

I've selected the Fullblade because it's just cool; Monkey Grip was necessary to allow me to wield it at all (still taking the penalties). There's still a few other feat slots to fill in at the levels given, and then the rest... The game he will be entering will most likely go Epic.

Also, suggestions on what book to pick up to expand the possibilities for this concept? The DM has stated that anything selected must be in a book possessed somewhere within our gaming group. That is a decent number, but specifically excludes:

Libris Mortis
Complete Divine
Races of Stone
Miniatures Handbook
and anything else released after June 2004 (not personally sure on all those titles)

Basically, I can afford about one book (sadly, $35) per month, and this game starts in under two weeks, so one book is all I get for now. Opinions on the order of acquisition for books?
PhaedrusXY
10-31-04, 04:58 AM I just posted a version of this in another thread, but it sounds like it's more of a fit for this one, if you can use Forgotten Realms material.

Fighter1/FallenPalladin1/Blackguard10/NarDemonbinder1/Spellsword1/EldritchKnight6
BAB+19, Caster level 10 BG (4th level spells), 17ND (8th level spells), -10% ASF

1 Education, Power Attack, Cleave
3 Improved Sunder
6 Iron Will
9 Spell Focus: Conjuration
12 Convert 10 Palladin levels to Blackguard levels, Take Divine Might
13 NarD1
14 Spellsword1

Start out as a fighter1/palladin11 (or take fighter after palladin), then "fall". Convert 10 levels of Palladin to Blackguard. Then take Nar Demonbinder. Finish with a level of Spellsword, then EK. Take Arcane Strike at level 15. Combine Arcane Strike, Divine Might, Power Attack, Smite Good, a spell storing weapon, and sneak attack dice to dish out insane damage. You could swap in more levels of Spellsword for the spellchanneling ability, but you'd lose access to your highest levels of spells.

Nar Demonbinder is in the Unapproachable East supplement to Forgotten Realms.

In my opinion, taking all those feats to be able to use a Fullblade isn't worth the extra two points of damage per swing you get over a greatsword. And Arcane Strike can more than replace the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feats, unless you fight alot of battles per day with no rest. And you have the option of actually casting those spells instead of converting them into damage via Arcane Strike.
Funny Slaughter
10-31-04, 05:18 AM without stating that PhaedrusXYs build is the ultimate: if you want a gish fighter12 is not the way to go. and i dont think you can challenge any gods while pursueing the fighter-class.
how about ur-priest? was my first thought when you talked about challengeing the gods. it can be combined with some fighting-classes without losing to much oomph. and together with ND and MT you can get some strange combos up and running.

gs
Funny
darczero
10-31-04, 03:48 PM First off, forgive me for being uneducated, but what are these Gish everyone speaks of?

Also, those twelve Fighter levels, and the feats mentioned, are actually set in stone. There won't be any Fighter levels after that; all I want from them is a few feats (that I don't feel like spending about 30 levels getting) and GWS (no matter how much everyone else dislikes that tree). This character, and the game he will be entering, is looking at easily about 50+ levels of advancement, so those 12 levels are (if anything) postponing other levels later.

Arcane Strike is a good idea. Probably going to replace a 1st level feat with the FR feat that gives me Arcane Spellcasting (can't remember the name right off) so I can get that one around 9th, then take some actual Wizard levels.

Nar Demonbinder is a good idea, except for the fact that I (as a player) despise Summon Monster anything. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and look it over again, see if there's anything truly useful in there.

Paladin (LG version) is a definite no; Blackguard is a maybe (don't like the pseudoreligious implications it carries). Paladin of Tyranny is a better idea, if the DM will allow it (haven't asked about any UA material yet).

Thanks for the suggestions, your time was appreciated.
MetalGemini
10-31-04, 04:05 PM how about ur-priest? was my first thought when you talked about challengeing the gods. it can be combined with some fighting-classes without losing to much oomph. and together with ND and MT you can get some strange combos up and running.

Gish is a warrior/arcane caster multiclass character. Ftr/Wiz, Pal/Sorc, etc.

I'll second Funny Slaughter's Ur-Priest. Its the first thing that popped into my head when you mentioned challenging the gods. Its in Complete Divine. Might be worthwhile to check it out before buying the book if possible to see what it has. There are plenty of builds on here for it too.
darczero
10-31-04, 08:11 PM Just out of curiosity, is there any way I can get Domains on the Ur-Priest? I do like the class, but it removes that one aspect of the Cleric that I want.

There's this set of lines from the Cleric class (SRD even):
If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The cleric gets the granted powers of both the domains selected.
I don't need to worship a Deity (we're not in an FR campaign, and the DM isn't requiring any Divine Spellcasters to specifically devote themselves, but the rest of the rules are still there) to be a Cleric. Ur-Priest gives less than half of the Cleric spell progression over half the levels, but gives higher level spells much faster (the good point), and gives a few special abilities that the Cleric doesn't get. Also, the Ur-Priest spell progression ceases at 10th level. Very few spells to prepare and cast, and like I said, no Domains. I want my two domains! Mostly for a few spells that don't appear anywhere else and the Granted Power (specifically Smite, Destruction domain; no Alignment).

Ur-Priest is worth looking at again (I've only seen the Book of Vile Darkness version), and Complete Divine is easily on my list of books to get (there's other things in there that I've heard good things about).
scrollreader
10-31-04, 08:17 PM Contemplative, baby. As long as you could find a suitable stand in for the god you don't believe in. Maybe one of the Archdevils out of the BoVD?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darczero 10-31-04, 02:53 AM	Okay, I've got a concept, but few numbers to work with. I need suggestions. The concept is a Lawful Evil Savior type. He views Humanoids as ignorant sheep that need someone to protect them, often from themselves. Gods are using the mundane peoples of the Prime Material worlds to gain power for themselves. Kings and Emperors exploit the common man (or woman) to collect taxes and get rich on the hard work of others. He plans to stop all this abuse of the mundanes (Sheep as he calls them... sounds good). The problem I'm having is deciding on an advancement plan. So far, I've decided that I will take the full WS tree (12 levels in Fighter), and will eventually learn Magic (probably Wizard levels, maybe specialist, not sure yet). His focus is on sheer destructive power, but not on uncontrolled destruction: no Rage, no Undead (he hates those too). And for all you Gish lovers out there, he's a HUMAN. No other choice about that one. So far, this is what I've got: 1 Monkey Grip ftr1 Exotic WP: Fullblade hum1 Weapon Focus: Fullblade ftr2 Power Attack 3 Iron Will ftr4 Weapon Specialization: Fullblade 6 Endurance ftr6 Cleave ftr8 GWF: Fullblade 9 Diehard ftr10 Great Cleave 12 ??? ftr12 GWS Fullblade ??? I've selected the Fullblade because it's just cool; Monkey Grip was necessary to allow me to wield it at all (still taking the penalties). There's still a few other feat slots to fill in at the levels given, and then the rest... The game he will be entering will most likely go Epic. Also, suggestions on what book to pick up to expand the possibilities for this concept? The DM has stated that anything selected must be in a book possessed somewhere within our gaming group. That is a decent number, but specifically excludes: Libris Mortis Complete Divine Races of Stone Miniatures Handbook and anything else released after June 2004 (not personally sure on all those titles) Basically, I can afford about one book (sadly, $35) per month, and this game starts in under two weeks, so one book is all I get for now. Opinions on the order of acquisition for books?
PhaedrusXY 10-31-04, 04:58 AM	I just posted a version of this in another thread, but it sounds like it's more of a fit for this one, if you can use Forgotten Realms material. Fighter1/FallenPalladin1/Blackguard10/NarDemonbinder1/Spellsword1/EldritchKnight6 BAB+19, Caster level 10 BG (4th level spells), 17ND (8th level spells), -10% ASF 1 Education, Power Attack, Cleave 3 Improved Sunder 6 Iron Will 9 Spell Focus: Conjuration 12 Convert 10 Palladin levels to Blackguard levels, Take Divine Might 13 NarD1 14 Spellsword1 Start out as a fighter1/palladin11 (or take fighter after palladin), then "fall". Convert 10 levels of Palladin to Blackguard. Then take Nar Demonbinder. Finish with a level of Spellsword, then EK. Take Arcane Strike at level 15. Combine Arcane Strike, Divine Might, Power Attack, Smite Good, a spell storing weapon, and sneak attack dice to dish out insane damage. You could swap in more levels of Spellsword for the spellchanneling ability, but you'd lose access to your highest levels of spells. Nar Demonbinder is in the Unapproachable East supplement to Forgotten Realms. In my opinion, taking all those feats to be able to use a Fullblade isn't worth the extra two points of damage per swing you get over a greatsword. And Arcane Strike can more than replace the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feats, unless you fight alot of battles per day with no rest. And you have the option of actually casting those spells instead of converting them into damage via Arcane Strike.
Funny Slaughter 10-31-04, 05:18 AM	without stating that PhaedrusXYs build is the ultimate: if you want a gish fighter12 is not the way to go. and i dont think you can challenge any gods while pursueing the fighter-class. how about ur-priest? was my first thought when you talked about challengeing the gods. it can be combined with some fighting-classes without losing to much oomph. and together with ND and MT you can get some strange combos up and running. gs Funny
darczero 10-31-04, 03:48 PM	First off, forgive me for being uneducated, but what are these Gish everyone speaks of? Also, those twelve Fighter levels, and the feats mentioned, are actually set in stone. There won't be any Fighter levels after that; all I want from them is a few feats (that I don't feel like spending about 30 levels getting) and GWS (no matter how much everyone else dislikes that tree). This character, and the game he will be entering, is looking at easily about 50+ levels of advancement, so those 12 levels are (if anything) postponing other levels later. Arcane Strike is a good idea. Probably going to replace a 1st level feat with the FR feat that gives me Arcane Spellcasting (can't remember the name right off) so I can get that one around 9th, then take some actual Wizard levels. Nar Demonbinder is a good idea, except for the fact that I (as a player) despise Summon Monster anything. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and look it over again, see if there's anything truly useful in there. Paladin (LG version) is a definite no; Blackguard is a maybe (don't like the pseudoreligious implications it carries). Paladin of Tyranny is a better idea, if the DM will allow it (haven't asked about any UA material yet). Thanks for the suggestions, your time was appreciated.
MetalGemini 10-31-04, 04:05 PM	how about ur-priest? was my first thought when you talked about challengeing the gods. it can be combined with some fighting-classes without losing to much oomph. and together with ND and MT you can get some strange combos up and running. Gish is a warrior/arcane caster multiclass character. Ftr/Wiz, Pal/Sorc, etc. I'll second Funny Slaughter's Ur-Priest. Its the first thing that popped into my head when you mentioned challenging the gods. Its in Complete Divine. Might be worthwhile to check it out before buying the book if possible to see what it has. There are plenty of builds on here for it too.
darczero 10-31-04, 08:11 PM	Just out of curiosity, is there any way I can get Domains on the Ur-Priest? I do like the class, but it removes that one aspect of the Cleric that I want. There's this set of lines from the Cleric class (SRD even): If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies. Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power. The cleric gets the granted powers of both the domains selected. I don't need to worship a Deity (we're not in an FR campaign, and the DM isn't requiring any Divine Spellcasters to specifically devote themselves, but the rest of the rules are still there) to be a Cleric. Ur-Priest gives less than half of the Cleric spell progression over half the levels, but gives higher level spells much faster (the good point), and gives a few special abilities that the Cleric doesn't get. Also, the Ur-Priest spell progression ceases at 10th level. Very few spells to prepare and cast, and like I said, no Domains. I want my two domains! Mostly for a few spells that don't appear anywhere else and the Granted Power (specifically Smite, Destruction domain; no Alignment). Ur-Priest is worth looking at again (I've only seen the Book of Vile Darkness version), and Complete Divine is easily on my list of books to get (there's other things in there that I've heard good things about).
scrollreader 10-31-04, 08:17 PM	Contemplative, baby. As long as you could find a suitable stand in for the god you don't believe in. Maybe one of the Archdevils out of the BoVD?