Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tenken 11-02-04, 01:38 AM	What kind of item would you make for a sneaky rogue (with Death Attack) that has the Ancestral Relic feat? I first thought a weapon would be great, but then I thought about wondrous items, rings, etc. Ring of Blinking with a ton of other abilities would be great... what would you guys create?
darczero 11-02-04, 03:07 AM	You want to abuse the feat? Go ahead. The relic value granted by the feat is exactly half the Starting Gold for PC's above 1st level. There's a progression listed for Epic levels on the same topic. I personally would create a pair of shoes (no one ever thinks to steal your shoes in D&D; rings are a prime target of Pick Pockets/Sleight of Hand), with a couple of Ring abilities on them. Of course, going out of my way to make as many of them typeless as possible, so they'd stack with similar rings.
catharz 11-02-04, 03:10 AM	Combining Item familiar and Ancestral relic would be pretty cool. Then play a Kensai/Psychic weapon master, and get a Fiend of posession cohort. That would create the most magical weapon that could ever concievably be used in a normal-ish D&D campaign. And if someone steals it, they're in real trouble!
Norad 11-02-04, 03:32 AM	What kind of item would you make for a sneaky rogue (with Death Attack) that has the Ancestral Relic feat? I first thought a weapon would be great, but then I thought about wondrous items, rings, etc. Ring of Blinking with a ton of other abilities would be great... what would you guys create? Take the Item Familiar feat out of Unearthed Arcana. First off: If you take the special abilities granted at 10th/14th/18th as +1 enhancement bonuses on the weapon they are free I believe, clearing up 102,000gp worth of Ancestral Relic investment which can then be used for monetary type enhancements. Second: Item Familiar allows you to enhance your Item Familiar without the requisite Item Creation feats. Using the 102,000gp saved from above you can add the following very cheaply: Sentience: Granted, by the time you are ready to buy this your item may already be sentient, which creates a bit of a conundrum, however, that aside, the highest intelligence bracket on the intelligent items table only costs 15,000gp and grants the weapon 120ft. Darkvision, Blindsense, and Hearing, allows it to read all languages and read magic, as well as giving it speech and telepathy. Then of course there are various Lesser, Greater, and Special Purpose powers which can also be purchased from there. Another nice little side effect a friend of mine and I were considering with regards to item familiar was also this; since the familiar is loyal to you and only conflicts with you when you oppose its alignment or special purpose (a highly unlikely occurence), it is to your BENEFIT to jack its ego up as high as possible. This has two benefits, one, should you ever become mentally controlled or dominated, especially in such a way that caused you to put yourself in danger or to act against your alignment, your weapon can assert itself and bring you "back into line" as it were. Second, if by some chance your Item Familiar is stolen, disarmed, etc., it will a) give negative levels to anyone of a different alignment, and possibly b) assert its will over that individual, most likely forcing him to hand the weapon back to you, or, perhaps more amusingly, using the newly controlled enemy to wreak havoc upon the remaining opponents.
Tenken 11-02-04, 08:01 AM	All very cool ideas. Never knew about that Item Familiar feat, that's good stuff. Are there any written enchantments or magic items that pumps up a special ability like Death Attack? If not, how can I go about making one? The DMG doesn't really have an example for it. Not sure if it'd even be worth it I guess. Is there like a master list of item enchantments that are worth it in CO? I wonder what all I should get... Belt of Magnificence could be cool. Start at +2, add another +2, and then another +2 later on. In the end it'd still total to 200k gp, so it'd be cool. Not sure if it's worth it... Any other ideas?
Enoch Van Garret 11-02-04, 08:13 AM	Are there any written enchantments or magic items that pumps up a special ability like Death Attack? If not, how can I go about making one? The DMG doesn't really have an example for it. Au contraire, mon frere. The Assassin's Dagger in the DMG's 'specific magic items' section gives a specific bonus to death attack. Use that as a template.
Norad 11-02-04, 12:27 PM	I would go for class combinations as far as increasing Death Attack DC, but that is just a matter of personal preference. However, building on Enoch's idea about the Assassin's Dagger, it looks like the DMG price for the ability provided by the weapon is ~10k gp and adds +1 to the DC. I would probably just see about adding a +6 Int enhancement item, it will probably end up being cheaper. Considering the ramping costs of magic item creation, if you wanted more than +1 to the DC it would likely ramp something like this +1 DC for 10k, +2 DC for 40k, +3 DC for 90k, etc. For a similar price you could get your item max sentience, Dimension Door at will, Haste 3/day, and Cure Moderate Wounds 3/day, with a Special Purpose of "Serving and protecting the <insert family name here> family.", which of course might only consist of one person.
Tenken 11-02-04, 12:42 PM	Seems to me like +1 to the DC is basically +1 to the enchantment in pricing, so a +1 dagger with +9 to the DC is equivalent to a +10 weapon. That's just one option anyway, I'm just curious about what other abuses you guys can come up with? It doesn't really have to be for my character, I'm really curious about what some of the cooler tactics there are out there. Blinking + Greater Invisibility + Blind-fight + Darkness would be really cool I think?
AviLazar 11-02-04, 12:50 PM	Why not add annointed knight in there for some more bonus goodness and maybe vassal of bahamut? Though I wouldnt make your platinum armor your ancestral relic since it has the disadvantage of "disintigrating" if someone other then you wears it :censored:
catharz 11-02-04, 01:15 PM	Though I wouldnt make your platinum armor your ancestral relic since it has the disadvantage of "disintigrating" if someone other then you wears it :censored: Plus you have to make it yourself, which dosen't really make sense for something passed down through generations...
nihility 11-02-04, 01:49 PM	Plus you have to make it yourself, which dosen't really make sense for something passed down through generations... A few ways around this: 1) Be an Elan, repeatedly fake your own death to prevent people from noticing that you never age, and pass the weapon down to your next identity. 2) Be a Zhent Spy. Use one cover identity to be your own father, then pass it down. 3) Have yourself killed and reincarnated, passing it down to your next body in the process. 4) Use the True Mind Switch power to take over your child's body after you pass it down to them. Of course, several of these are somewhat less than exalted, and the others play pretty fast and loose with the notion of inheritance.
catharz 11-02-04, 02:00 PM	A few ways around this: 1) Be an Elan, repeatedly fake your own death to prevent people from noticing that you never age, and pass the weapon down to your next identity. 2) Be a Zhent Spy. Use one cover identity to be your own father, then pass it down. 3) Have yourself killed and reincarnated, passing it down to your next body in the process. 4) Use the True Mind Switch power to take over your child's body after you pass it down to them. Of course, several of these are somewhat less than exalted, and the others play pretty fast and loose with the notion of inheritance. :rofl:
crazysamaritan 11-02-04, 02:15 PM	For a similar price you could get your item max sentience, Dimension Door at will, Haste 3/day, and Cure Moderate Wounds 3/day, with a Special Purpose of "Serving and protecting the <insert family name here> family.", which of course might only consist of one person. Only one problem I see with that: the DMG has some small bit about serve/protect all eves means more than just helping yourself if you're an elf. so the natural conclusion is that your sword wants your family line to continue. I'm not sure if I want my sword to help me pick up dates....
Norad 11-02-04, 03:55 PM	Only one problem I see with that: the DMG has some small bit about serve/protect all eves means more than just helping yourself if you're an elf. so the natural conclusion is that your sword wants your family line to continue. I'm not sure if I want my sword to help me pick up dates.... Hey, with Charisma 19 and Intelligence 19, it's probably better at it than you are...
widow 11-02-04, 07:46 PM	If i remeber right and ancestral relic is the one you sacrifice stuff to enchant it, I would go with a book. The item always has a max value based on your level. Make inherent bonus stat books. Once you ready them, the value of the item again returns to 0gp. Then just sac stuff to make it a different +5 book. This is alot easier too if you DM rules you can stack +1 books up to a max of +5 (I always hated that they dont stack). A similar idea is to get a dagger and make it a dagger of wishes, especially nice with 3.0 pricing on this weapon. The real power of this of course is that you can take your share of the treasure and get full resale value by pumping it into the item. Of course it depends on how your campaign handles selling of the loot you find.
Qaetar 11-03-04, 11:30 AM	Uh... widow... that's a really good RAW abuse. (Qaetar)
Auldar 11-03-04, 04:02 PM	Can a Wonderous Item be considered Masterwork quality? An Ancestral Relic needs to be Masterwork and handed down by the family.. -Auldar
crazysamaritan 11-03-04, 04:19 PM	Can a Wonderous Item be considered Masterwork quality? An Ancestral Relic needs to be Masterwork and handed down by the family.. -Auldar It doesn't have to be, but you can make it that way.
widow 11-03-04, 04:41 PM	It should not be too hard to make a master crafted book. Also it has very good roleplaying value. It could be a book of your family history and each time you read it you find something new that you can learn from (ie give you that stat increase).