AC challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

AC challenge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darczero
10-21-04, 11:03 PM I'm curious: What is the highest AC you people can come up with, using a 20 level build, LA of +0, and starting GP for 20th level character? I'd like to see those numbers, all you powergamers out there!

Please, keep it to WoTC material only (no third party). 3.0 or 3.5, whichever you prefer.

First Target: 50
warok
10-21-04, 11:09 PM Otto the bugbear has the record

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305263

enjoy
darczero
10-21-04, 11:29 PM Disjunction... Next.

Although that one is good.
RodIshiCi
10-22-04, 08:42 AM 50 AC is fairly easy without even needing to cast magic (but using magic itens, tough).
Dwarven Fighter 20.
DEX 16 (+3)
+5 Mithral Battle Plate (+14)
+5 Tower Shield (+9)
8th level Dwarven Fighter Racial Level Substitution (+1)
Heavy Armor Optimization Feats (+2)
+5 Ring of Protection (+5)
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor (+5)

And for the 50th point you can go Dodge (or upgrade thru that RoS feat to make it +4 vs Large-sized or larger enemies), Combat Expertise (Improved Combat Expertise), Fight Defensively (+5 ranks in Tumble)... and that's without the need to open a book (doing this by memory) and spells cast on you. Also, this equipment isn't even 1/3 of his character wealth for this level.
Sure, since you have loads of feats left, you can try to look for more AC feat, get something to make your damage/combat maneuvers better, or even load in a lot of Will pumping feats to prevent Disjunction (or is spellblade or ring of counterspelling allowed to prevent this?).

Edit: Still, you should've stated some conditions since the beginning, so people wouldn't do things like pointing to Otto's fine build and then you just replying it would go away with Disjunction.
Neonsamurai
10-22-04, 08:59 AM Disjunction... Next.

Although that one is good.
Disjunction kills any character concept, so why did you state starting gold for a 20th level character at all ? i don't get your point.
lostone
10-22-04, 10:31 AM I'd like to propose that the builds be done without gold and spells, because you can use the same equipment/spells on nearly any build for similar results, and many DMs may not be as generous/stingy with magic items, and may not allow attribute boosters anyway.

Anyway, one thing a player in my group did (which I personally don't think works but the DM allowed) was a monk ninja of the crescent moon. Monk gets wisdom modifier towards AC, ninja also gets it, in my opinion they would not stack, but the DM allowed it to stack. So naturally the player put all attribute boosts into wisdom, got all the magic boosts he could, etc. Think he ended the game at level 16 with an AC of 60 something which was the most impressive our group had ever hit, but that was including magic items and spells our rather inept cleric cast.
sereg
10-22-04, 10:44 AM Well, using the Rules as Written:

Changling Monk2/Paladin2/Hexblade3/Warshaper4/Kensai9

You use your natural attacks (tentacles) as your signature weapon. You make them +5, Defending, with +3 to spare (wounding comes to mind).

The only limit to your Armor Class is your experience: grow as many tentacles as you'd like. Enjoy AC 100+ with no magic items.

Sereg
Tempest Stormwind
10-22-04, 10:59 AM To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official ruling on Minor Change Shape qualifying for Warshaper yet. Also, if I remember correctly (don't have the books with me), kensai have to pay XP for each individual weapon they boost (i.e. both hands), not just each type (i.e. type "hand"). Barring these two possible hurdles, that's amazing, though.

I'll contact a pal of mine who found a way to get around 70 without a single magic item, and post an update when I've got him.
sereg
10-22-04, 11:37 AM Also, if I remember correctly (don't have the books with me), kensai have to pay XP for each individual weapon they boost (i.e. both hands), not just each type (i.e. type "hand")

The cost is 100% of the XP cost + 10% per natural weapon. 40 Natural Weapons = 490% of the xp = you're spending near 20k xp, for +200 ac.

Its far less if you leave kensai at level 7 or 8, but really, there's no need to worry about xp.

Sereg
Welcome
10-22-04, 11:46 AM Human Saint Monk 1/Fighter 2/Hexblade 4/Duelist 7/Bladesinger 4

Build :
Human : Dodge
1-monk1- Weapon Focus Rapier
2-ftr1- Mobility
3-ftr2- TWF (replaces Ambidextry since Duelist is 3.0), Combat Expertise
4-hex1-
5-hex2-
6-hex3- Combat Casting
7-hex4-
8-duelist1-
9-duelist2- exalted feat
10-duelist3-
11-duelist4-
12-duelist5- Improved Combat Expertise
13-duelist6-
14-duelist7-
15-BS1- Vow of Poverty
16-BS2-
17-BS3-
18-BS4- exalted feat
Attain sainthood.

32 point buy :
Original stats : 6/16/8/18/16/6
Stats after 4 level increases and VoP : 6/20/10/24/28/6

AC : 10+5(dex)+7(int:canny def)+3(fight on the defensive)+7(int:elaborate parry)+9(wis:monk)+9(wis:saint)+4(int:bl adesinger)+10(VoP)+1(dodge)+17(Improved Expertise for full BAB)= 82 with no spells nor magic items.
lostone
10-22-04, 12:13 PM +17(Improved Expertise for full BAB)What's the point if you can't hit what you're fighting? It's good for running away, but how're you planning on ever winning any fights? Or did I miss something in the build that would let you damage/defeat opponents some other way?
Welcome
10-22-04, 12:23 PM What's the point if you can't hit what you're fighting? It's good for running away, but how're you planning on ever winning any fights? Or did I miss something in the build that would let you damage/defeat opponents some other way?
*shrug* Not my problem, he only asked for AC. If you need to play this, then just don't Expertise. AC 65.
Bacris
10-22-04, 12:27 PM viability has nothing to do with "how high can you get x"

now, if you want to talk about a viable combat-oriented, high ac build, that's something completely different.

Further, I think it's only fair that if you want to post a genuine challenge, put in all the rules...

responding to an ac 100+ build with "disjunction... next" is rather, well... rude, since you never imposed any sort of limitation aside from standard 20 level with standard level 20 starting gp in 3.0 or 3.5...
Welcome
10-22-04, 12:35 PM I just noticed the original post asked for LA+0. Well, since Sainthood is +2, I guess you could have 2 more levels and 2 free feats (no need for exalted feats anymore) to play with in my build, but 9 AC less. With a few modifications :

Human Monk 1/Fighter 2/Hexblade 4/Duelist 7/Bladesinger 6

32 point buy :
Original stats : 6/16/8/18/16/6
Stats after 4 level increases and VoP : 6/20/10/24/28/6

AC : 10+5(dex)+7(int:canny def)+3(fight on the defensive)+7(int:elaborate parry)+9(wis:monk)+6(int:bladesinger)+10 (VoP)+1(dodge)+17(Improved Expertise for full BAB)= 75 with no spells nor magic items.
Ruxpin
10-22-04, 01:35 PM [QUOTE=Tempest Stormwind]To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official ruling on Minor Change Shape qualifying for Warshaper yet. QUOTE]

Changlings qualify for warshaper, not because of their minor shape change ability, but because they are of the shapechanger subtype.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Heres a quick AC build off the top of my head, no where near maxed out.

Dwarf - Wizard 13, Deep Warden 2, RuneSmith 5 (Races of Stone)

Shape Change to Titan (con 39, +19 Natural, -2 Size)
Shield Extreme Steel +5
Battle Plate +5
Heavy/Greater Heavy Armor Optomization.
Amulet Natural Armor +5
Inherent Con +5
Enhancement Con +6
Ring Protection +5

so 25(con) + 24(natural) + 8(shield) + 16(battle plate/armor optomization) + 5(dodge) -2(size)= 76

So not that great, but can still cast 9th level Wiz spells and wear armor.. Not sure if you can exceed the dex maximum on armor with the con bonus but it seems to me that it should since it doesnt reduce your movement any.
Fwib
10-22-04, 03:00 PM [QUOTE=Tempest Stormwind]To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official ruling on Minor Change Shape qualifying for Warshaper yet. QUOTE]

Changlings qualify for warshaper, not because of their minor shape change ability, but because they are of the shapechanger subtype.

Awww... you beat me to it...
Still... to cover the other bit: I thought about that myself, and the Warshaper says something like 'while in another form' so I thought 'maybe minor change shape doesn't qualify' but I'm sure I remember reading that changelings return to their normal form when they die and there is also the wording ''...the chosen form...' in disguise self which the minor shape change is sort of based off of.
werewolf
10-22-04, 09:30 PM Halfling Rogue3/Ranger2/Fighter2/Monk3/Duelist10

Dex:20(24), Int:16, Wis:17(18) starting stats(and 20th)

10 base, +7 dex, +3 int, +4 wis, +5 expertise, +10 elaborate parry, +3 fighting defensive, +1 dodge, +2 two weapon defense, +1 size = AC:46

Thats core only with no magic whats-so-ever. You can get up to an AC:90 with just magic items from the core books. By core, I mean PHB, DMG, and MM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darczero 10-21-04, 11:03 PM	I'm curious: What is the highest AC you people can come up with, using a 20 level build, LA of +0, and starting GP for 20th level character? I'd like to see those numbers, all you powergamers out there! Please, keep it to WoTC material only (no third party). 3.0 or 3.5, whichever you prefer. First Target: 50
warok 10-21-04, 11:09 PM	Otto the bugbear has the record http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=305263 enjoy
darczero 10-21-04, 11:29 PM	Disjunction... Next. Although that one is good.
RodIshiCi 10-22-04, 08:42 AM	50 AC is fairly easy without even needing to cast magic (but using magic itens, tough). Dwarven Fighter 20. DEX 16 (+3) +5 Mithral Battle Plate (+14) +5 Tower Shield (+9) 8th level Dwarven Fighter Racial Level Substitution (+1) Heavy Armor Optimization Feats (+2) +5 Ring of Protection (+5) +5 Amulet of Natural Armor (+5) And for the 50th point you can go Dodge (or upgrade thru that RoS feat to make it +4 vs Large-sized or larger enemies), Combat Expertise (Improved Combat Expertise), Fight Defensively (+5 ranks in Tumble)... and that's without the need to open a book (doing this by memory) and spells cast on you. Also, this equipment isn't even 1/3 of his character wealth for this level. Sure, since you have loads of feats left, you can try to look for more AC feat, get something to make your damage/combat maneuvers better, or even load in a lot of Will pumping feats to prevent Disjunction (or is spellblade or ring of counterspelling allowed to prevent this?). Edit: Still, you should've stated some conditions since the beginning, so people wouldn't do things like pointing to Otto's fine build and then you just replying it would go away with Disjunction.
Neonsamurai 10-22-04, 08:59 AM	Disjunction... Next. Although that one is good. Disjunction kills any character concept, so why did you state starting gold for a 20th level character at all ? i don't get your point.
lostone 10-22-04, 10:31 AM	I'd like to propose that the builds be done without gold and spells, because you can use the same equipment/spells on nearly any build for similar results, and many DMs may not be as generous/stingy with magic items, and may not allow attribute boosters anyway. Anyway, one thing a player in my group did (which I personally don't think works but the DM allowed) was a monk ninja of the crescent moon. Monk gets wisdom modifier towards AC, ninja also gets it, in my opinion they would not stack, but the DM allowed it to stack. So naturally the player put all attribute boosts into wisdom, got all the magic boosts he could, etc. Think he ended the game at level 16 with an AC of 60 something which was the most impressive our group had ever hit, but that was including magic items and spells our rather inept cleric cast.
sereg 10-22-04, 10:44 AM	Well, using the Rules as Written: Changling Monk2/Paladin2/Hexblade3/Warshaper4/Kensai9 You use your natural attacks (tentacles) as your signature weapon. You make them +5, Defending, with +3 to spare (wounding comes to mind). The only limit to your Armor Class is your experience: grow as many tentacles as you'd like. Enjoy AC 100+ with no magic items. Sereg
Tempest Stormwind 10-22-04, 10:59 AM	To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official ruling on Minor Change Shape qualifying for Warshaper yet. Also, if I remember correctly (don't have the books with me), kensai have to pay XP for each individual weapon they boost (i.e. both hands), not just each type (i.e. type "hand"). Barring these two possible hurdles, that's amazing, though. I'll contact a pal of mine who found a way to get around 70 without a single magic item, and post an update when I've got him.
sereg 10-22-04, 11:37 AM	Also, if I remember correctly (don't have the books with me), kensai have to pay XP for each individual weapon they boost (i.e. both hands), not just each type (i.e. type "hand") The cost is 100% of the XP cost + 10% per natural weapon. 40 Natural Weapons = 490% of the xp = you're spending near 20k xp, for +200 ac. Its far less if you leave kensai at level 7 or 8, but really, there's no need to worry about xp. Sereg
Welcome 10-22-04, 11:46 AM	Human Saint Monk 1/Fighter 2/Hexblade 4/Duelist 7/Bladesinger 4 Build : Human : Dodge 1-monk1- Weapon Focus Rapier 2-ftr1- Mobility 3-ftr2- TWF (replaces Ambidextry since Duelist is 3.0), Combat Expertise 4-hex1- 5-hex2- 6-hex3- Combat Casting 7-hex4- 8-duelist1- 9-duelist2- exalted feat 10-duelist3- 11-duelist4- 12-duelist5- Improved Combat Expertise 13-duelist6- 14-duelist7- 15-BS1- Vow of Poverty 16-BS2- 17-BS3- 18-BS4- exalted feat Attain sainthood. 32 point buy : Original stats : 6/16/8/18/16/6 Stats after 4 level increases and VoP : 6/20/10/24/28/6 AC : 10+5(dex)+7(int:canny def)+3(fight on the defensive)+7(int:elaborate parry)+9(wis:monk)+9(wis:saint)+4(int:bl adesinger)+10(VoP)+1(dodge)+17(Improved Expertise for full BAB)= 82 with no spells nor magic items.
lostone 10-22-04, 12:13 PM	+17(Improved Expertise for full BAB)What's the point if you can't hit what you're fighting? It's good for running away, but how're you planning on ever winning any fights? Or did I miss something in the build that would let you damage/defeat opponents some other way?
Welcome 10-22-04, 12:23 PM	What's the point if you can't hit what you're fighting? It's good for running away, but how're you planning on ever winning any fights? Or did I miss something in the build that would let you damage/defeat opponents some other way? shrug Not my problem, he only asked for AC. If you need to play this, then just don't Expertise. AC 65.
Bacris 10-22-04, 12:27 PM	viability has nothing to do with "how high can you get x" now, if you want to talk about a viable combat-oriented, high ac build, that's something completely different. Further, I think it's only fair that if you want to post a genuine challenge, put in all the rules... responding to an ac 100+ build with "disjunction... next" is rather, well... rude, since you never imposed any sort of limitation aside from standard 20 level with standard level 20 starting gp in 3.0 or 3.5...
Welcome 10-22-04, 12:35 PM	I just noticed the original post asked for LA+0. Well, since Sainthood is +2, I guess you could have 2 more levels and 2 free feats (no need for exalted feats anymore) to play with in my build, but 9 AC less. With a few modifications : Human Monk 1/Fighter 2/Hexblade 4/Duelist 7/Bladesinger 6 32 point buy : Original stats : 6/16/8/18/16/6 Stats after 4 level increases and VoP : 6/20/10/24/28/6 AC : 10+5(dex)+7(int:canny def)+3(fight on the defensive)+7(int:elaborate parry)+9(wis:monk)+6(int:bladesinger)+10 (VoP)+1(dodge)+17(Improved Expertise for full BAB)= 75 with no spells nor magic items.
Ruxpin 10-22-04, 01:35 PM	[QUOTE=Tempest Stormwind]To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official ruling on Minor Change Shape qualifying for Warshaper yet. QUOTE] Changlings qualify for warshaper, not because of their minor shape change ability, but because they are of the shapechanger subtype. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Heres a quick AC build off the top of my head, no where near maxed out. Dwarf - Wizard 13, Deep Warden 2, RuneSmith 5 (Races of Stone) Shape Change to Titan (con 39, +19 Natural, -2 Size) Shield Extreme Steel +5 Battle Plate +5 Heavy/Greater Heavy Armor Optomization. Amulet Natural Armor +5 Inherent Con +5 Enhancement Con +6 Ring Protection +5 so 25(con) + 24(natural) + 8(shield) + 16(battle plate/armor optomization) + 5(dodge) -2(size)= 76 So not that great, but can still cast 9th level Wiz spells and wear armor.. Not sure if you can exceed the dex maximum on armor with the con bonus but it seems to me that it should since it doesnt reduce your movement any.
Fwib 10-22-04, 03:00 PM	[QUOTE=Tempest Stormwind]To my knowledge, there hasn't been an official ruling on Minor Change Shape qualifying for Warshaper yet. QUOTE] Changlings qualify for warshaper, not because of their minor shape change ability, but because they are of the shapechanger subtype. Awww... you beat me to it... Still... to cover the other bit: I thought about that myself, and the Warshaper says something like 'while in another form' so I thought 'maybe minor change shape doesn't qualify' but I'm sure I remember reading that changelings return to their normal form when they die and there is also the wording ''...the chosen form...' in disguise self which the minor shape change is sort of based off of.
werewolf 10-22-04, 09:30 PM	Halfling Rogue3/Ranger2/Fighter2/Monk3/Duelist10 Dex:20(24), Int:16, Wis:17(18) starting stats(and 20th) 10 base, +7 dex, +3 int, +4 wis, +5 expertise, +10 elaborate parry, +3 fighting defensive, +1 dodge, +2 two weapon defense, +1 size = AC:46 Thats core only with no magic whats-so-ever. You can get up to an AC:90 with just magic items from the core books. By core, I mean PHB, DMG, and MM.