AC Tank...options? [Archive] - Wizards Community

AC Tank...options? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Satori
02-16-07, 07:13 PM I've been pondering over various AC Tank builds, yet I end up getting overwhelmed with semantics and giving up. It needs to be playable at level 5, with a steady payback through the following levels (as opposed to a level 20 build that doesn't pay off until high levels).

What are the general CharOp builds/concepts for creating "AC Tanks"? What are the "canonical" builds used for reference? What are the options and strategies within these builds?

Allowed Books: PHB, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, and Complete Warrior. Races from "Races of Faerun", though no Monstrous races.

I'm currently playing a 5th level Dwarven PsiWarrior designed to soak up damage through Vigor, Concealing Amorphae, and Biofeedback...but his AC is a moderate 22 with Force Shield and heavy armor. While effective in the short run, this build tends to run out of steam after a fight or two. In addition, his damage output is rather pitiful.

If he dies (which I assume he will shortly), I'll need to replace the "Front Line Tank" position...but I'm leaning towards an AC machine that doesn't rely on Power Points and still maintains a decent damage output.

My thoughts so far revolve around extreme dexterity builds utilizing full BAB classes, Expertise, and dual wielded Broadblade Shortswords...yet I need inspiration.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Nathreet
02-16-07, 07:57 PM As it happens I wrote a computer program to find the best melee combatant. Uses PHB races & classes only, standard starting gold. You could do better with other books, but at least the equipment buying tips should help. For a more focused tank soaking hits for other damage dealers, I'd get a tower shield. That'll add 2 AC and subtracts 2 AB from the build shown. You might also spend more on AC & con than what it shows.

http://www.geocities.com/ericjgrau/tweaker6.gif

"Total AC Bonuses": Get the cheaper AC items first, of course. "Insight" AC means dusty rose prism ioun stone (5000gp, +1 AC).
"Rating": Don't worry about the "Rating" column. "Rating" is a number I used to compare builds. Builds that do the most damage before dying (requires HP, AC, saves) get a higher rating.
"Str, Dex, Con, Wis": These increase through belt of giant strength, etc. The "Dex" column is inaccurate. "2" actually means get boots of speed, "1" means no boots of speed.
"Weapon" refers to the weapon's equivalent bonus. It's actually a +1 weapon with energy damage (holy, etc.) tacked on.
"Save Bonuses" come from a cloak of resistance, stone of good luck and pale green prism ioun stone.
ChristopherGroves
02-16-07, 09:43 PM The feats I think that are the coolest for this would be ....

Shield Specialization (+1 AC), Shield Ward (add shield AC to touch/grapples/etc.), Heavy Armor Optimization (+1 AC) and Deflective Armor (armor to touch AC while focused), Focused Shield (+1 shield AC while focused), Exotic Armor Prof (Mountain Plate), Exotic Shield Prof (Extreme Steel Shield), Greater Armor Optimization

You're looking at Fighter 2 / Psywarrior X to start and you'll have to probably put off a few of these feats until later ... but this gives you a plan at least.

Mountain Plate + Extreme Steel Shield = 13
Heavy Armor Optimization = +1
Greater Armor Optimization = +1
Shield Spec. = +1
Focused Shield = +1

That's 27 right there. A few bonuses on the sheild and armor add into the mix, plus a ring of protection (deflection) and you could easly get 30-ish by around 8th and the best part of it is that it applies to your touch AC as well.

I'd suggest you get Stable Footing (Races of Eberron) and be a Dwarf to ignore the penalties for difficult terrain and heavy armor slowness.
Silverthumb128
02-16-07, 09:57 PM Three feats I've recently discovered to be very effective: Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, and Allied Defense. With Imp Combat Exp, you gain up to your full BAB to AC, rather than max of +5. Allied Defense grants an adjacent ally the same amount of AC from Combat Exp that you receive. Together, that's up to +20 AC for you and an ally.

But, Allied Defense is from Shining South, so it won't go so well given your allowed books.
Nathreet
02-16-07, 11:33 PM With ChristopherGroves' feats and my magic items you could get 30 AC at level 5 and 32 AC at level 8.
I wouldn't get combat expertise until later levels. The hit to AB doesn't make the AC worth as much; you'll get more benefit from other feats.
For my table's magic AC column: The +2 at level 5 means +1 armor and a +1 shield. The +4 at level 8 means +2 armor, +1 shield, and ring of protection +1. You'll have to figure out the rest yourself.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Satori 02-16-07, 07:13 PM	I've been pondering over various AC Tank builds, yet I end up getting overwhelmed with semantics and giving up. It needs to be playable at level 5, with a steady payback through the following levels (as opposed to a level 20 build that doesn't pay off until high levels). What are the general CharOp builds/concepts for creating "AC Tanks"? What are the "canonical" builds used for reference? What are the options and strategies within these builds? Allowed Books: PHB, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, and Complete Warrior. Races from "Races of Faerun", though no Monstrous races. I'm currently playing a 5th level Dwarven PsiWarrior designed to soak up damage through Vigor, Concealing Amorphae, and Biofeedback...but his AC is a moderate 22 with Force Shield and heavy armor. While effective in the short run, this build tends to run out of steam after a fight or two. In addition, his damage output is rather pitiful. If he dies (which I assume he will shortly), I'll need to replace the "Front Line Tank" position...but I'm leaning towards an AC machine that doesn't rely on Power Points and still maintains a decent damage output. My thoughts so far revolve around extreme dexterity builds utilizing full BAB classes, Expertise, and dual wielded Broadblade Shortswords...yet I need inspiration. Thanks in advance for your assistance!
Nathreet 02-16-07, 07:57 PM	As it happens I wrote a computer program to find the best melee combatant. Uses PHB races & classes only, standard starting gold. You could do better with other books, but at least the equipment buying tips should help. For a more focused tank soaking hits for other damage dealers, I'd get a tower shield. That'll add 2 AC and subtracts 2 AB from the build shown. You might also spend more on AC & con than what it shows. http://www.geocities.com/ericjgrau/tweaker6.gif "Total AC Bonuses": Get the cheaper AC items first, of course. "Insight" AC means dusty rose prism ioun stone (5000gp, +1 AC). "Rating": Don't worry about the "Rating" column. "Rating" is a number I used to compare builds. Builds that do the most damage before dying (requires HP, AC, saves) get a higher rating. "Str, Dex, Con, Wis": These increase through belt of giant strength, etc. The "Dex" column is inaccurate. "2" actually means get boots of speed, "1" means no boots of speed. "Weapon" refers to the weapon's equivalent bonus. It's actually a +1 weapon with energy damage (holy, etc.) tacked on. "Save Bonuses" come from a cloak of resistance, stone of good luck and pale green prism ioun stone.
ChristopherGroves 02-16-07, 09:43 PM	The feats I think that are the coolest for this would be .... Shield Specialization (+1 AC), Shield Ward (add shield AC to touch/grapples/etc.), Heavy Armor Optimization (+1 AC) and Deflective Armor (armor to touch AC while focused), Focused Shield (+1 shield AC while focused), Exotic Armor Prof (Mountain Plate), Exotic Shield Prof (Extreme Steel Shield), Greater Armor Optimization You're looking at Fighter 2 / Psywarrior X to start and you'll have to probably put off a few of these feats until later ... but this gives you a plan at least. Mountain Plate + Extreme Steel Shield = 13 Heavy Armor Optimization = +1 Greater Armor Optimization = +1 Shield Spec. = +1 Focused Shield = +1 That's 27 right there. A few bonuses on the sheild and armor add into the mix, plus a ring of protection (deflection) and you could easly get 30-ish by around 8th and the best part of it is that it applies to your touch AC as well. I'd suggest you get Stable Footing (Races of Eberron) and be a Dwarf to ignore the penalties for difficult terrain and heavy armor slowness.
Silverthumb128 02-16-07, 09:57 PM	Three feats I've recently discovered to be very effective: Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, and Allied Defense. With Imp Combat Exp, you gain up to your full BAB to AC, rather than max of +5. Allied Defense grants an adjacent ally the same amount of AC from Combat Exp that you receive. Together, that's up to +20 AC for you and an ally. But, Allied Defense is from Shining South, so it won't go so well given your allowed books.
Nathreet 02-16-07, 11:33 PM	With ChristopherGroves' feats and my magic items you could get 30 AC at level 5 and 32 AC at level 8. I wouldn't get combat expertise until later levels. The hit to AB doesn't make the AC worth as much; you'll get more benefit from other feats. For my table's magic AC column: The +2 at level 5 means +1 armor and a +1 shield. The +4 at level 8 means +2 armor, +1 shield, and ring of protection +1. You'll have to figure out the rest yourself.