Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necrokhan 06-02-04, 08:13 AM	Hi, After seeing Troy, I'm thinking on how I could make Achilles for D&D. The movie is, supposedly, historical, so no "half-celestial" for him... Of course, he would have tons of levels anyway, but I'm more interested on how his fightning style could be simulated by D&D rules. To begin, he uses a large shield and a short sword with Phalanx Fightning (from Complete Warrior); apart from that, I challenge the professionals of the Character Optimization boards to make him! He must also be good with a spear and deadly throwing javelins...
Thorak 06-02-04, 08:21 AM	Well, just assume that most of his opponents are level 1 or 2 Fighters, and he's got a strength of 16 or so, combined with the whole weapon specialization route and power attack, and you've got 1-hit kills all over right there. Even the other 'champions' he fights might only be level 10 or so, to his level 20ish. I'd also suggest Improved Critical: Shortsword. And Mobility (running around in the middle of a giant melee without getting whacked). But I really think the deadliness is best wrapped up be detailing his opponents, rather than himself. Even a badly-made 20th level character is going to be uber-strong against 1st and 2nd level opponents. And will wipe the floor with his one-on-one fights against 10th to 15th level opponents, though he'll get some scratches and bruises in those.
nachtmeister 06-02-04, 08:28 AM	why no half-celestial ? his mother was a goddess and he dived into the styx ( hold by Thetis, his mother )
Neonsamurai 06-02-04, 08:44 AM	In the movie Achilles isn't that über at all. Any 10th level martial character could perform what he does. Though his "Jump-Sneak-Attack" (tm) looks like he got 5 levels of invisible blade ;) If you want to build the original Achilles though you'd start with half-celestial and about 15-20 levels.
Funny Slaughter 06-02-04, 08:58 AM	If you want to build the original Achilles though you'd start with half-celestial and about 15-20 levels. and i would say some serious DR gs Funny
Setanos 06-02-04, 09:02 AM	My first thought would be (assuming 20th level) 10 Fighter/5 Barbarian/5 Rogue The fighter levels for the feats and weapon spec short sword and javelin. The Barbarian for faster movement, a little extra hardiness, and Rage. The Rogue for some sneak attack dice, and some nice additional skill points in things like tumble.
der_gogo 06-02-04, 09:03 AM	If you want to build the original Achilles you will have to make him a Demigod like Hercules. He could only be killed by a God, so he has Immunity to mortal weapons. Nice :D
nachtmeister 06-02-04, 09:05 AM	Immortal ? not quite right :D
der_gogo 06-02-04, 09:25 AM	Demigods are not Immortal in Greek Mythology. Hercules also was killed. But he was allowed to join the Gods at Mt. Olympus after his death. And the arrow that killed Achilles came from a God (Apoll i think) not a mortal. The mocie was quite... different from the stuff Homer wrote about :D
nachtmeister 06-02-04, 09:36 AM	after all it was shot by paris - apoll just gave it a precise direction :D
rilem 06-02-04, 09:36 AM	Haven't seen the movie, but in the Illiad it's Paris who kills Achilles (with the assistance of Apollo, who steers a poisoned arrow shot by Paris into Achilles' heel. Older versions of the story apparently have Achilles being surprised and stabbed in the back. And pretty much everybody was mortal in the old Greek stories — Apollo, Ares and a couple others were decidedly roughed up and nearly killed by Achilles and others in the Illiad. The barbarian/fighter/rogue (or maybe barbarian/fighter/duelist) avenue seems right.
Rocmistro 06-02-04, 10:31 AM	Are we trying to make Achilles, ala Brad Pitt or Achilles ala Homer? Once we decide who we're building we can decide on what route we want to take. The one thing I've been trying to decide is whether or not I want to make his Jump/Thrust maneuver a Feat, or just chalk it up to a combined net effect of high BAB, high damage output, and power attack. I think it's easier to take it not so literally, and just say he's a high level fighter doing a lot of damage with every attack. But it's also more fun to build a feat around his special attack.
Necron 06-02-04, 11:26 AM	Hi, I would say he's some level in assassin .. so his jump-kill was more a bluff combined with death attack. Just my 2 cents ;) Necron, evil DM :devil:
Nilaus 06-02-04, 11:30 AM	After watching the movie I felt like making this character as a D&D character of mid-level. This is the Brad Pitt movie version. His jump-thrust-maneuver looks to me like a sneak attack. To accomplish this I felt that the invisible blade feint as a free action was really good. Actually the entire concept fits very well with an invisible blade; lightly armoured, intelligent, sneak attacking fighter class. The problem is the daggers, but I would simply plead my GM to allow short swords. The build could look something like this: Rogue3/Fighter2/Invisible Blade5/? This would achieve the character concept at level 10. By taking fighter levels and quickdraw he can also use shield and throwing spears. You could substitute Rogue for Swashbuckler to achieve more intelligence synergy, but I would rather have 2D6 extra sneak attack and better skills, but that is just a personal preference.
Necrokhan 06-02-04, 11:31 AM	I said "no half-celestial" on my first post because the movie Troy is a historical version of the Iliad, not a legendary one. Sure, a version of Achilles based on the Homer original history would surely have such template (or something like it; you understand). Also, in my group we consider that common people are 2nd level, not 1st, and everyone has full hit points at 1st level. So it is not so easy to kill a single soldier outright (with just one strike, I mean)... We could develop some feat for his jump maneuver (only Hector manages to be the target of this attack and survive ;) ), and maybe something for throwing javelins. Since I read "300", of Frank Miller (about the Persian-Greek war), I became inspired by the ancient greek fightning style (large shield and spear, throwing javelins, short sword, light armor...), and I would really like to play with a fighter with this style in D&D!
Jairami 06-02-04, 11:41 AM	Is there a template that gives DR 50/heel-shot? The Styx-Swirlie template or some such?
Funny Slaughter 06-02-04, 11:50 AM	if you want to make him after the movie you shouldnt forget a bard-cohort with a single rank in perform and a negative charisma-mod to play the soundtrack... gs Funny
grifter100 06-02-04, 01:05 PM	How about Raptor School (from Complete Warrior) for his "Jump-Attack"? First, he studies his opponent for a few rounds (Hawk´s Eye ability) while looking threatening and then jump-charges his opponent (Eagle´s Swoop ability).
Grim Sage 06-02-04, 01:07 PM	Ftr/Swashbuckler (maybe the sneak attack fighter variant from UA) sounds about right; add rank 0 deity (hero-deity, like herakles, or hercules for the people who prefer his roman name) if you want to add the divine component: makes him effectively immortal (as in not subject to aging, no need to eat, breathe, sleep etc.), grants nice DR and resistances and more of those things.
AaronXVI 06-02-04, 01:42 PM	Wasn't there a feet somewhere, that allowed you to do a charge attack or something if you dropped down on somebody from five feet in the air?
RodIshiCi 06-02-04, 02:05 PM	As far as the movie goes, I don't recall he being hit a single time before Paris killed him. So even DR is arguable in this build. But you could add a SQ that shooting him in the heel would deal more damage and make him unable to move. :)
Rocmistro 06-02-04, 03:37 PM	had rogue levels, and used the Hamstring Feat in conjunction with Sneak Attack on him. Since Brad was flatfooted being bamboozled by the hot chick, he lost his dex bonus to AC. Of course, Brad would have to be w/o Uncanny Dodge, which means no Rogue or Barbarian levels for him.
CoreDex 06-02-04, 03:46 PM	Why has no one mentioned spring attack yet? It is obviosly a spring attack he is making.
pawsplay 06-02-04, 04:50 PM	Spring Attack, Improved Charge, Powerful Charge
Hyperion 06-02-04, 05:21 PM	You've all obviously forgotten that to do a write up for a Brad Pitt character Achilles would also have to have a 16+ Cha. I mean come on he's Brad Pitt here and he commands the most elite fighting force of Greece. That's some good Cha. But forget him lets talk about the big baddie Ajax! He could take some punishment. Hyperion
gijoel 06-02-04, 08:14 PM	Jump, Spin, Turn, Parry, Thrust, THWAAAACKKKK!!! Sorry all this talk of jumping sneak attacks reminded me of Daffy Duck:D
allenchan 06-02-04, 08:38 PM	Half celestial? Wasnt his mother a sea nymph? Wouldnt he be Half-nymph )DR 313) Leadership feat? Daunting Presense feat? CN? Just some ideas... ps: I think his jumping thrust move thingie would be best put into game mechanics by increasing the crit range on a Charge. (Doubles, stacks with Imp. Crit, or keen?)
Bond, James Bond 06-02-04, 08:44 PM	Originally posted by Funny Slaughter if you want to make him after the movie you shouldnt forget a bard-cohort with a single rank in perform and a negative charisma-mod to play the soundtrack... aw, come on... I for one actually liked some of james horner`s compositions :D Originally posted by Rocmistro Since Brad was flatfooted being bamboozled by the hot chick, he lost his dex bonus to AC. Of course, Brad would have to be w/o Uncanny Dodge, which means no Rogue or Barbarian levels for him. very good point. so, as rogue and barbarian levels are out, I`d say swashbuckler/ftr with spring attack and elusive target, plus combat expertise for not getting hit until the final scene...
Rocco Manitta 06-02-04, 10:33 PM	Anyone have any ideas on his alignment? I'm definitely thinking Achilles was Chaotic Evil at the start of the movie. His blatant disregard for authority and kingship was tolerated only because of his skill. After the speach from the King of Troy, I'm thinking perhaps his alignment shifted to Neutral Evil, as that was mainly about having respect for one's foes. The hot chick that bamboozled him "healed his heart", and so I'm thinking his heart was softened to the point of perhaps becoming True Neutral, or maybe even Neutral Good. Any thoughts?
allenchan 06-02-04, 10:57 PM	Originally posted by Rocco Manitta Anyone have any ideas on his alignment? I'm definitely thinking Achilles was Chaotic Evil at the start of the movie. His blatant disregard for authority and kingship was tolerated only because of his skill. How is not listening to an evil tyrrant evil itself? :confused: I deffinately think he was chaotic neutral the entire movie. It was all about himself and his fame and his victory, he didnt care about laws or morality. He followed his own code of personal impowerment above and beyond anything else.
Deep Blue 9000 06-02-04, 10:58 PM	He´s definitely CN the whole time. He doesn´t follow orders and doesn´t respect authority even that of the gods. And he doesn´t care about Troy or the Greeks. He only fights Hector for personaly reasons, to avenge his cousin. Plus in the end he never even helped the Greeks to open the city gates, he goes straight after Brisaus He´s not CE though, sure he´s an arrogant ass but its not like he kills babies or anything. He never killed an innocent or an unarmed man.
saethar 06-03-04, 12:23 AM	Originally posted by Deep Blue 9000 He´s definitely CN the whole time. He doesn´t follow orders and doesn´t respect authority even that of the gods. And he doesn´t care about Troy or the Greeks. He only fights Hector for personaly reasons, to avenge his cousin. Plus in the end he never even helped the Greeks to open the city gates, he goes straight after Brisaus He´s not CE though, sure he´s an arrogant ass but its not like he kills babies or anything. He never killed an innocent or an unarmed man. Well innocent is a relative term, and he'd never kill an unarmed man because of honor not because he's "good" - probably gotta agree on the whole baby kill'n part though... Saethar :b:
Ipsissimus 06-03-04, 09:38 AM	Don't forget to give him a high Charisma and Intelligence. He was definately a ladies man and a tactician...and that side step neck attack looks more like a Feint. Whatever class he was, probably a fighter/weapon master these were most of the feats I noticed during his fights. - Power Attack, Improved Sunder - Phalanx Fighting - Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise - Wpn Focus, Wpn Specialization, Monkey Grip (long spear) - Wpn Focus, Wpn Specialization, Improved Critical (short sword) - Throw Anything (he threw a long spear and hit a moving target pretty far away) - Point Blank Shot, Far Shot - Improved Toughness (after Paris shot his heel...he still took a lot of arrows and even pulled them out which we know does almost equal damage again). - Leadership He has a decent Cha, Int, a good Str and Con, a very high Dex (look at his armor). Of course, this leaves the discussion of what his equipment did...i'm feeling a really high AC. Even though most foot soliders are 1st or 2nd level warriors/fighters, i'm guessing he was Epic...I mean, the story he was written in was an Epic. ;)
Spiralix 06-03-04, 06:12 PM	Originally posted by Jairami Is there a template that gives DR 50/heel-shot? The Styx-Swirlie template or some such? :bow: :invasion: :bow: :rofl: :rofl: A styx swirlie. That is awesome.
allenchan 06-03-04, 07:42 PM	Originally posted by Ipsissimus Of course, this leaves the discussion of what his equipment did...i'm feeling a really high AC. Even though most foot soliders are 1st or 2nd level warriors/fighters, i'm guessing he was Epic...I mean, the story he was written in was an Epic. ;) While not in the movie, didnt Hephaestus make Achilles' armor?
Timespike 06-04-04, 12:29 AM	Originally posted by Ipsissimus Don't forget to give him a high Charisma and Intelligence. He was definately a ladies man and a tactician...and that side step neck attack looks more like a Feint. Whatever class he was, probably a fighter/weapon master these were most of the feats I noticed during his fights. - Power Attack, Improved Sunder - Phalanx Fighting - Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise - Wpn Focus, Wpn Specialization, Monkey Grip (long spear) - Wpn Focus, Wpn Specialization, Improved Critical (short sword) - Throw Anything (he threw a long spear and hit a moving target pretty far away) - Point Blank Shot, Far Shot - Improved Toughness (after Paris shot his heel...he still took a lot of arrows and even pulled them out which we know does almost equal damage again). - Leadership He has a decent Cha, Int, a good Str and Con, a very high Dex (look at his armor). Of course, this leaves the discussion of what his equipment did...i'm feeling a really high AC. Even though most foot soliders are 1st or 2nd level warriors/fighters, i'm guessing he was Epic...I mean, the story he was written in was an Epic. ;) Nope. A 20th-level human fighter could have all of this. (And still have a feat left over, even)
Cornbread 06-04-04, 01:30 AM	He threw a javelin or a short spear, not a long spear.
Slyver 06-04-04, 01:37 AM	Nope. A 20th-level human fighter could have all of this. (And still have a feat left over, even) The problem is, if one wishes to actually play this character, even if you play in a completely non-magic campaign with only the weapons and armor available for that time period, it is an incredibly weak 20th level build. So unless Achilles is simply the highest level fighter in the known world, no build like this will work to play with.
sereg 06-04-04, 02:27 AM	The problem is, if one wishes to actually play this character, even if you play in a completely non-magic campaign with only the weapons and armor available for that time period, it is an incredibly weak 20th level build. So unless Achilles is simply the highest level fighter in the known world, no build like this will work to play with screw magic, and screw 3.x's balance of Fighters. Gimme 2nd ed any day. Idiots in charge of balance need to get a clue, Sereg
MaxMahem 06-04-04, 03:18 AM	Originally posted by Slyver So unless Achilles is simply the highest level fighter in the known world, no build like this will work to play with. I think you actualy hit the nail on the head here. Achilles simply WAS the highest level fighter in the known world. As others have pointed out, most of his opponents were probably 1 - 3rd level fighters (or more probably warriors). Against such opponents a high level fighter like Achilles should be able to cleave through them with little trouble. Hector and some of the other main characters were probably the only other high level warriors Achillies ever faced. As for his equipment, it looked like a large shield, shortsword, and a breastplate to me, all of it masterwork. Achillies probably achives his high AC through a combination of high dex, doge, mobility, ect. It's also possible that the armor is only leather or reinforced leather as Hector manages to scratch it with his sword in one seen.
Wyvernius 06-04-04, 04:52 AM	Originally posted by allenchan While not in the movie, didnt Hephaestus make Achilles' armor? He made his shields, which was uber-magical and showed scenes of battle moving on it
Boo 06-04-04, 09:48 AM	I thought Hephastus made ALL the armor (well NEW armor), since Achilles original armor was taken from Patroclus by the Trojans.
Xx Spider xX 01-05-05, 03:19 AM	Greets all, I'm a 2e player working on a character build for MY VERSION(Meaning what I saw and gathered as a viewer)of the Achilles seen in the film Troy. Any-way heres what I've come up w/thus far : Str:22(Why? Distance and force used while throwing the spear/Javelin when Hector and his men approached the temple of Apollo. Aswell, the ease at which he seemed to penetrate armor within the battle scenes.) Dex:18 Con:19(I gather this from his level of exhaustion, or lack there-of while facing clearly seasoned opponents who became exhausted ex:Hector - Troys best soldier. In addition, he faced numbers of opponents and appeared to tire little) Int:15(He seemed well spoken, educated and very intelligent over-all) Wis:15 Cha:19(He seemed to possess an un-natural level of presence. As the Greek kings advisor spoke that the 2nd attack on Troy would require Achilles' presence in order to succeed. I gathered this from the effect he had on the men he fought w/aswell..and his level of recognition) Class:Fighter Level:36(Due to the reputation and experience conveyed within the film when achilles was spoken of. He was presented as the complete warrior. A master of arms in every sense of the word...whos participation within battle could decide the outcome of wars. As such, 36th level would represent mastery of the fighter class) Gifts & or special abilities: *Granted the 2e optional rule of ac reduction by 2 to an un-armored warrior. Achilles is granted this ability w/the use of light armor. Reinforced Leather : Breastplate - Greaves - Bracers. He loses this ability w/the use of his plumed helm. *Divinely Unique Battle Prowess(Blessing) : An un-natural level of combat sense. AC reduction by 5. Cancellation of any opponents special benefits due to advanced weapon/combat specialization. Ex: Improved Critical *Weapon Improvisation. This allows Achilles to use ANY item in hand as if it were a weapon he was proficient with. *Divine Battle Wisdom. When pertaining to battle/war/military tactics, his wisdom is treated as 19. *Champions Influence(unique). This is the effect Achilles' presence and divine charisma have on those he sides with. First, those directly under his command(Ex: The Myrmidons). All men make morale checks w/a plus modifier equal to Achilles reaction adjustment(+8). They receive a plus equal to 1/3rd(rounded down:2) Achilles' reaction adjustment to attacks, attribute checks and saves. Finally, they receive a +1 to initiative. Those soldiers sided w/Achilles and aware of it(Ex: Greek army)receive a plus equal to half his reaction adjustment for morale purposes(+4). Lastly these forces receive a +1 to attacks, attribute checks and saves. *Achilles will fight until death(-10 hit points) Thats all for the time being. But remember, within the film Achilles mentioned to the Greek priestess that he had seen the gods. He aswell shared a secret of the gods. That they admired the passion of mortals lives, seeing as in the end we are all doomed to die. In that, I gathered that Achilles was a divine champion...or divinely touched.
Neonsamurai 01-05-05, 05:48 AM	Uhh this is some serious thread-zombiefication :eek: Not familiar with 2e anymore (too long ago).
Lord Zeb 01-05-05, 07:50 AM	I like the Rogue 3 / Fighter 12 / Invisible Blade 5 (with short sword) Rog1 2 feats Dodge, Mobility Ftr 1 feat WF shortsword Rog2 feat Spring Atk Ftr 2 feat ? Rog3 Ftr 3 feat Leadership Ftr 4 feat Wpn Spec shortsword IB 1 IB 2 IB 3 feat ? IB 4 IB 5 Ftr 5 feat ? Ftr 6 feat ? Ftr 7 Ftr 8 feat / Improved Wpn Spec? Ftr 9 Ftr10 feat ? Ftr11 feat ? Ftr12 feat / Greater Wpn Spec? - That's a nice # of feats, great BAB, and at the mid-levels (~10) this PC is strong enough to mop the floor with the lvl 1 to 3 warriors he's facing on the battlefield. By level 20 he is a supreme master of the short sword. Rogue 3 / Bard 3 / Fighter 4 / Warchanter 10 might be interesting too in statting out "Achilles the leader of men."
Lord Zeb 01-05-05, 08:04 AM	Stupid double post - boards are actin' up.
StinkyNutz 01-05-05, 01:22 PM	Dont have the books in front of me, but feats you should look into include: Sheild bash and sheild focus feats- You saw how he smacked a few people with his sheild, and how good he was with his sheild (when hed throw it on his back when someone was behind him. Two weapon fighting- He seemed to do even better with two swords during the assault on the beach. Forget about spear throwing feats- He was damn good at throwing them in the movie yes, but that could be atributed to a high BAB and Dex. Add in a few spear focus feats though because half his battle with Hector was with a spear, and he whupped up on Hector with it. As well as his jump feint attack move was done with the spear too. Also I think he was way faster than he was strong- I think weapon finese fits better into the build, as his hits (even the jump shot) seemed more based on skill and speed than raw strength...though he would still have a decent str for damage. If you're going to try to build him from the movie and not worry about just optimization (rather worrying about optimization for story purposes), then Id suggest going for Swashbuckler x / Fighter x / Invisable Blade x / then Weapons Master x Focus on weapon feats (weapon spec and focus) for spear and short sword. Dodge, mobility, spring attack, sheild feats, and leadership are just a few. Skills- Of course focus on bluff and sense motive, jump and tumble are of great importance, and knowledge tactics, knowledge realigion wouldnt hurt. Decent abilities- str 16 dex 18-20 con 16 int 18 wis 14 cha 16 Thats about all I got without the books. Enjoy
wtfpwned 01-05-05, 02:07 PM	I agree that he does not need to be powerbuilt, he is just a much higher lvl then his opponents. To describe his jump thrust, you could use the feat expert tactician. Bluff, and he sneak attacks them for some good damage. A few sneak attack dice would dish out the killing blows you see in the movie.
WotCWannabe 01-05-05, 02:42 PM	perhaps the styx swirlie could grant DR 15/Crit
Aluroon 01-05-05, 06:28 PM	Quite frankly based on the movie, and his enemies, he is simpily a Fighter18 Aluroon
Tony Vargas 01-05-05, 09:21 PM	I said "no half-celestial" on my first post because the movie Troy is a historical version of the Iliad, not a legendary one. I don't want to be a nudge, but it's not /historical/, it's more of a 'what if' - what if the illiad had been inspired by events like these... There is no historical account of the Trojan war. Also, in my group we consider that common people are 2nd level, not 1st, and everyone has full hit points at 1st level. So it is not so easy to kill a single soldier outright (with just one strike, I mean)...Well, that's your first mistake. The typical soldier on the battlefield is going to be a 1st level warrior. That's 8hps. One-hit kills, even with a shortsword, should be easy for a strong, high-level fighter: 1 (min damage) + 4 (greater specialization) + 3 (16 STR) = dead 1st level warrior every time. Add Power Attack for higher hp foes (remember, no magic - ACs will be low). For his fighting style in the movie, I'd say go with the WWA chain - dodge and mobility to dance around the battlefield, Combat Expertise to keep from getting hit in a low-level/low-magic world, WWA to slice through many enemies quickly, and Improved Feint for the occasional trickier move. D&D, however, /is/ an heroic fantasy system, and the magic and larger-than-life stuff is built in. Other systems, like GURPs, would give you the detail (and the very real danger of being outnumbered) to simulate that sort of thing better. Since I read "300", of Frank Miller (about the Persian-Greek war), I became inspired by the ancient greek fightning style (large shield and spear, throwing javelins, short sword, light armor...), and I would really like to play with a fighter with this style in D&D! It's dissapointingly hard to do. You can't use a longspear one-handed, and without the reach advantage, there's not much point to choosing a spear over a martial weapon. You can 'fake it' with a trident, for instance, or a 'Small Glaive,' but that's about it. And Weapon & Shield gets short shrift compared to THF. :shrug:
Ualaa 01-06-05, 12:51 AM	As for Achilles equipment, the story takes place in the bronze age. Bronze based equipment, as opposed to steel or iron, should be vastly inferior. Of course, the weapons are bronze also, which reduces their effectiveness.
AtomicPope 01-06-05, 02:15 AM	Sorry but I think saying - He's simply an x-level fighter, is an arrogant estimation of the D&D classes. The fact remains that a fighter's BAB and NOT their AC increases with levels; thus a 20th level fighter is just as easy to hit as a 1st level fighter, with the same stats and gear mind you. To simply assume that a 20th level fighter with a 1st Level armor class can remain unscathed in a series of conflicts is ignorant at best. Analyzing his style, the following would be apparent: 1) Shield Focus - he was able to use his shield defensively after Sundering a spear with it. No level of fighter can do that w/o a feat. 2) Improved Sunder - he afforded no attack of opportunity (Power Attack) 3) Spring Attack - able to move in, attack, and move away without provoking an attack of opportunity (Dodge, Mobility, too) 4) Quick Draw - When Hector breaks his spear, he immediate draws and attacks with his sword. 5) Combat Expertise - there's no way for a fight to both appear an be defensively effective w/o this feat. 6) Two Weapon Fighting - in the movie he's explicitly trained with his off-hand, then says when and why you should. 7) Phalanx Formation - need a feat to do it. 8) Leadership - again, feat required. Saying he has Endurance or Tumbling etc. is conjecture if we're merely watching the movie. By the same token we could gather that Achilles was a 3rd Level Gladiator which gave him the (Ex) ability to Exhaust his opponent after a measly three rounds. After watching the extras on the DVD, they said that they wanted his style to be flawless, athletic, and deadly. The reason for leaping attacks, as stated by the fight choreographer, was to bring his attack down on his opponent with as much force as possible while simultaneously ignoring the protection of both shield and armor. This smacks of Power Attacks. With 10 feats as a Human it's possible to make him an 12th Level Human Fighter with all-around high Ability Scores and a feat to spare (Improved Critical would be nice). But in the context of the game, it would be fitting to make him an Epic Character so if he's not in the Forgotten Realms, he's the greatest fighter.
SolenVlos 01-06-05, 08:00 AM	second edition?? it's just funny to think how AC could be better if it was low. sorry but i can't hold myself: what is his thac0?(joke) hehehe i don't remember one single rule for 2e.
Xx Spider xX 01-06-05, 01:26 PM	JMO, but I think simply saying that Achilles is the highest level warrior in the land fails to capture him correctly. The same example could be presented for most/many other fantasy/ancient-fiction film characters(Conan, Maximus, ect..). And honestly, this answer wouldnt suit most Ad&d/D&D games due to the fact that they are magical worlds filled w/many heroes of unique talent, skill and ability. To present Achilles within most games..as he was presented within the film would require more than simply being a high level warrior(of any type). Hes offered as a legendary character of such ability/skill and prowess that all the world(that views him)takes notice. A being whos abilities on the battlefield and as a warrior are uncomparable to any ever known.
SpartanMD 01-06-05, 05:38 PM	You've all obviously forgotten that to do a write up for a Brad Pitt character Achilles would also have to have a 16+ Cha. I mean come on he's Brad Pitt here and he commands the most elite fighting force of Greece. That's some good Cha. Hyperion What about some levels in Marshall from Minatures handbook?