Adjust levels of these homebrew spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Adjust levels of these homebrew spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dietevil
02-15-07, 07:09 PM I created some spells. Help me tinker the level to the appropriate level. Any useful improvements to the prose would be welcomed also.

FYI- They are for a cleric of time and karma. Time is pretty self evident. Karma deals mainly with motivations and effect of the actions we take.

For your ease (copy and paste) I have posted a quick list of them below with thier levels as I saw them, followed by a repeat of the list and my quick justification for each level. Below that is the individual spell description, of which I spared the flowery words.

Spells
Duration Manipulation-2
Glitch-1
Déjà vu-4
Hide in Time-2
Instant Karma-1
Karma Ward-4
Greater Duration Manipulation-4
Time Jump-3
Moral Short-2
Target Switch-5

REASONS I have them at the levels I do.
Duration Manipulation-2
Similar to the extend spell level adjustment but a seperate spell.
Glitch-1
Similar to Command but specific to their last action, allowing for a cool visual. Do do feel this one is a tad too powerful for a 1st level spell.
Déjà vu-4
A the end of the day, this spell is doesnt change a lot. Its a redo, so it allows for some big changes but it doesn't strike me as powerful as spells like, Plane shift-5 or Wall of Force-5, ect.
Hide in Time-2
Moving objects in time seems easier than people. Object get lost all the time anyway. And its not all that useful anyways.
Instant Karma-1
I like this spell, its a useful 1st level spell that can be effect and yet can be better easy with a will save. Its on par with magic missle or true strike.
Karma Ward-4
Trying weave in the idea that karma will make things right this spells seem equal to wall of fire. Remember it can't hurt unless the person deals damage.
Greater Duration Manipulation-4
Less than permanency-5 but more applicible.
Time Jump-3
One big long blink-3
Moral Short-2
Again I like this spell. Why is there no change alignment spell, it temperary here and I think is on par with other level 2 spells such a suggestion-2 while not as powerful as bestow curse-3
Target Switch-5
This is a specialized version of teleport-5, yet way more fun.

Duration Manipulation
lvl 2 (Time) Save: None
Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant
Effect: The duration of the spell or an effected is Doubled or Halved. Can only effect spells with a duration, in rounds, minutes, hours, days, years
They don't have to be spells cast by the original caster.

Glitch
lvl 1 (Time, Complusion) Save: Will
Casting Time: free action Duration: until they make save.
Effect: Target repeats last rounds action until they make the save.
Additional save receive +2, Third attemp, +4, Fourth attemp +6, Ect.
If the action was an attack, and the target is still present, the attack suffers a -4. They start, as by magic, in the exact location they began the previous round. The outcome can change, but the motions by the target are the same, unless prevented by a new physical element.
If they action doesn't make sense the motion is still attempted.
Example, jumping over a table that is no longer there, the target would jump at the exact same time, and motion.
Casting a spell they are out of, the target would utter the words, make the motions, even if the effects didnt follow.

Déjà Vu
lvl 4 Save: Will * Special
Casting time: 1 full round Duration: Instant
Effect: Repeat the last full round, time begins again 2 rounds ago.
Caster loses the spell, all other effects never happened that began.
Initiative is rerolled, between the ground that made the save.
After that iniative is set those who didn’t save roll initiative.
The caster retains knowledge of what happened, and receive a +2 on rolls for 2 rounds.Those that saved have a sense, and receive a +1 on rolls for the next 2 rounds

Hide in Time
lvl 2 (time) Save: None
Casting time: 1 action Duration: Up to 1D10 + Level rounds
Area: 10 feet Cube
Effect: Object disappears and reappears at the end of duration
The caster knows when the object is do back.
If the object can not reappear in the exact physical space it will reappear close.
Objects held by another being can not disappear.
Objects under direction observation can not disappear
Objects must fit in 10x10 cube

Instant Karma
lvl 1 (evocation) Save: Will
Casting time: 1 action Duration: Instant
Area: 1 target
Effect: The target of the spell suffers the damage it dealt last round to 1 other target (Only damage, not effects.)
The damage shows up as similar wounds, but not effects. If a wound results in a sever, the target of the spell does not suffer a sever, unless they roll a 1 on thier save.

Karma Ward
lvl 4 Save: will for half
Casting time: Duration: 1D4 times or 24 hours which ever is first.
Area: Target
Effect: Any attack on Target resulting in damage effects the dealer of the damage 3 times greater. The target pulse red before some might attack, giving the attack a chance to stay the attack. The number of times increases, increase to 1d8 if caster is over level 10

Greater Duration Manipulation
lvl 4 (Time) Save None
Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant
Effect: A spell or effects duration is changed by an order of magnitude
Instantenous Effects are uneffected
Round to Minutes
Minutes to Hours
Hour to Days
Days to Months
Months to Years
Years to Permament

Time Jump
lvl 3 (time) Save: NA
Casting Time: 1 Action Duration 1d6
Effect: The cast skips ahead to X rounds. He gains initiative
The caster can take additional life forms if touching.
The caster knows what happen, but can take only free actions.
Other lifeforms can take no action unless they have time traveler before.

Moral Short
lvl 2 (comlusion) Save: Will
Casting time 1 action Duration: 10 minutes/ level
Area: 1 target
Effect: The caster picks a new alignment for the target.
If the Alignment is opposite, the target gets a +4 to their save.
The effect also dazes the target for 1d4 rounds, creatures that save are still dazed for 1 round.

Target Switch
Lvl 5 (Karma) Save: Will
Casting Time: Free Action Duration: Instant
Area 2 targets with in 100 ft.
Effect: Physically switches two targets, or replaces a spells target with another, the effect is instant. The effect is so fast its possible for one target to hit themselves with a range attack, but not a gaze attack.
Adrian_Crane
02-15-07, 08:01 PM Overall, these are seriously overpowered for the levels you have listed. Granted, I don't have much experience; the following are just my opinions:

Glitch seems like it should be 7th level or so.

Deja Vu, a do-over spell at 4th level? That's 9th level territory, if not epic. SERIOUSLY underlevel.

Hide in Time is a very clever idea, and seems okay as is.

Instant Karma is interesting; I'd probably change the save to Fort, though, and boost the level to 2nd.

Karma Ward I'm having trouble understanding. First off, lower it to x2 instead of x3 damage. Second, how's this "stay the attack" bit work? Clarify that. Also, boost the level to at least 5, IMO.

Greater Duration Manipulation should be the same level as Permanency--5th. This is because it can affect more spells.

Time Jump should be caster only, and clarify what happens in the interim. The bit on other life forms needing "time traveler" makes no sense.

Moral Short needs clarifying. What do you mean by opposed--both axes, or either?

Target Switch I'm too unsure of to judge, but I'd say check out Baleful Transposition (think that's the name) in the Miniature's Handbook and just use that.

You've got a lot of very original and interesting ideas, but I think they still need a good deal of tuning and balance to make them playable.
catharz
02-15-07, 08:38 PM The Duration Manipulation spells are broken. The first one is hugely better than Extend Spell (one 1st level spell and one 5th level spell instead of a 6th level spell? Yes please!). The second one lets you make a rounds/level spell permanent by recasting it 6 times, and at no XP cost.

A lot of the other spells mimic psionic powers, look in the SRD for appropriate levels.
fnord
02-15-07, 09:48 PM Duration Manipulation
lvl 2 (Time) Save: None
Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant
Effect: The duration of the spell or an effected is Doubled or Halved. Can only effect spells with a duration, in rounds, minutes, hours, days, years
They don't have to be spells cast by the original caster.

This is quite powerful, given that it can affect high level spells. I'd split this into 3 spells, lesser, [unnamed], and greater.
Lesser: 2nd level, effects 3rd level or lower,
[unnamed]: 5th level, effects 6th level or lower
Greater: 8th level, effects all spells

Glitch
lvl 1 (Time, Complusion) Save: Will
Casting Time: free action Duration: until they make save.
Effect: Target repeats last rounds action until they make the save.
Additional save receive +2, Third attemp, +4, Fourth attemp +6, Ect.
If the action was an attack, and the target is still present, the attack suffers a -4. They start, as by magic, in the exact location they began the previous round. The outcome can change, but the motions by the target are the same, unless prevented by a new physical element.
If they action doesn't make sense the motion is still attempted.
Example, jumping over a table that is no longer there, the target would jump at the exact same time, and motion.
Casting a spell they are out of, the target would utter the words, make the motions, even if the effects didnt follow.

This is quite a bit more powerful than command, potentially keeping someone out of control for several rounds. With the increasing DC, it's not as powerful as Hold Person, but the free (should be swift) action casting time counts for a lot. 4th level probably (note that Quickened Command would be 5th).

Déjà Vu
lvl 4 Save: Will * Special
Casting time: 1 full round Duration: Instant
Effect: Repeat the last full round, time begins again 2 rounds ago.
Caster loses the spell, all other effects never happened that began.
Initiative is rerolled, between the ground that made the save.
After that iniative is set those who didn’t save roll initiative.

The caster retains knowledge of what happened, and receive a +2 on rolls for 2 rounds.Those that saved have a sense, and receive a +1 on rolls for the next 2 rounds

Man, this is ridiculous. Time Regression is 9th level and costs 1000 xp, this spell seems to do the same thing, so that would be a good start.

Hide in Time
lvl 2 (time) Save: None
Casting time: 1 action Duration: Up to 1D10 + Level rounds
Area: 10 feet Cube
Effect: Object disappears and reappears at the end of duration
The caster knows when the object is do back.
If the object can not reappear in the exact physical space it will reappear close.
Objects held by another being can not disappear.
Objects under direction observation can not disappear
Objects must fit in 10x10 cube

This seems reasonable.

Instant Karma
lvl 1 (evocation) Save: Will
Casting time: 1 action Duration: Instant
Area: 1 target
Effect: The target of the spell suffers the damage it dealt last round to 1 other target (Only damage, not effects.)
The damage shows up as similar wounds, but not effects. If a wound results in a sever, the target of the spell does not suffer a sever, unless they roll a 1 on thier save.

This seems rather good for 1st level. At high levels, this could return large amounts of damage, but it does allow a save. 4th level, maybe 5th.

Karma Ward
lvl 4 Save: will for half
Casting time: Duration: 1D4 times or 24 hours which ever is first.
Area: Target
Effect: Any attack on Target resulting in damage effects the dealer of the damage 3 times greater. The target pulse red before some might attack, giving the attack a chance to stay the attack. The number of times increases, increase to 1d8 if caster is over level 10

Compare Share Pain. This is better in some ways, worse in others, but notably only allows a save for half. Maybe 5th level.

Greater Duration Manipulation
lvl 4 (Time) Save None
Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant
Effect: A spell or effects duration is changed by an order of magnitude
Instantenous Effects are uneffected
Round to Minutes
Minutes to Hours
Hour to Days
Days to Months
Months to Years
Years to Permament

If this can affect the same spell more than once, the effect is significantly better than Wish. Any spell made permanent, wow.
Even if it can't, it's still very, very good. This turns immediate buffs (1 round) into significant effects, round per level stuff into precombat, even multi encounter buffs, and makes every thing else last basically all day (or longer). Shapechange would last 170 hours (more than 7 days).
I'd make it 9th, and charge perhaps 100xspell level xp.
1000 x spell level xp if it can affect the same spell more than once. And those are conservative estimates.

Time Jump
lvl 3 (time) Save: NA
Casting Time: 1 Action Duration 1d6
Effect: The cast skips ahead to X rounds. He gains initiative
The caster can take additional life forms if touching.
The caster knows what happen, but can take only free actions.
Other lifeforms can take no action unless they have time traveler before.
If the other creatures have to be willing, this is probably OK, though there probably should be a limit on number or weight. If you can take unwilling creatures, bump it up a level and allow a Will save. Without a save, maybe 7th level.

Moral Short
lvl 2 (comlusion) Save: Will
Casting time 1 action Duration: 10 minutes/ level
Area: 1 target
Effect: The caster picks a new alignment for the target.
If the Alignment is opposite, the target gets a +4 to their save.
The effect also dazes the target for 1d4 rounds, creatures that save are still dazed for 1 round.

2nd level? Are you kidding? Look at Morality Undone (BoVD). This is less powerful, but still; call it 7th or higher.

Target Switch
Lvl 5 (Karma) Save: Will
Casting Time: Free Action Duration: Instant
Area 2 targets with in 100 ft.
Effect: Physically switches two targets, or replaces a spells target with another, the effect is instant. The effect is so fast its possible for one target to hit themselves with a range attack, but not a gaze attack.
[/QUOTE]
Should be an immediate action, not a free action. Seems to be a reasonable level, though. Maybe one level higher.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dietevil 02-15-07, 07:09 PM	I created some spells. Help me tinker the level to the appropriate level. Any useful improvements to the prose would be welcomed also. FYI- They are for a cleric of time and karma. Time is pretty self evident. Karma deals mainly with motivations and effect of the actions we take. For your ease (copy and paste) I have posted a quick list of them below with thier levels as I saw them, followed by a repeat of the list and my quick justification for each level. Below that is the individual spell description, of which I spared the flowery words. Spells Duration Manipulation-2 Glitch-1 Déjà vu-4 Hide in Time-2 Instant Karma-1 Karma Ward-4 Greater Duration Manipulation-4 Time Jump-3 Moral Short-2 Target Switch-5 REASONS I have them at the levels I do. Duration Manipulation-2 Similar to the extend spell level adjustment but a seperate spell. Glitch-1 Similar to Command but specific to their last action, allowing for a cool visual. Do do feel this one is a tad too powerful for a 1st level spell. Déjà vu-4 A the end of the day, this spell is doesnt change a lot. Its a redo, so it allows for some big changes but it doesn't strike me as powerful as spells like, Plane shift-5 or Wall of Force-5, ect. Hide in Time-2 Moving objects in time seems easier than people. Object get lost all the time anyway. And its not all that useful anyways. Instant Karma-1 I like this spell, its a useful 1st level spell that can be effect and yet can be better easy with a will save. Its on par with magic missle or true strike. Karma Ward-4 Trying weave in the idea that karma will make things right this spells seem equal to wall of fire. Remember it can't hurt unless the person deals damage. Greater Duration Manipulation-4 Less than permanency-5 but more applicible. Time Jump-3 One big long blink-3 Moral Short-2 Again I like this spell. Why is there no change alignment spell, it temperary here and I think is on par with other level 2 spells such a suggestion-2 while not as powerful as bestow curse-3 Target Switch-5 This is a specialized version of teleport-5, yet way more fun. Duration Manipulation lvl 2 (Time) Save: None Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant Effect: The duration of the spell or an effected is Doubled or Halved. Can only effect spells with a duration, in rounds, minutes, hours, days, years They don't have to be spells cast by the original caster. Glitch lvl 1 (Time, Complusion) Save: Will Casting Time: free action Duration: until they make save. Effect: Target repeats last rounds action until they make the save. Additional save receive +2, Third attemp, +4, Fourth attemp +6, Ect. If the action was an attack, and the target is still present, the attack suffers a -4. They start, as by magic, in the exact location they began the previous round. The outcome can change, but the motions by the target are the same, unless prevented by a new physical element. If they action doesn't make sense the motion is still attempted. Example, jumping over a table that is no longer there, the target would jump at the exact same time, and motion. Casting a spell they are out of, the target would utter the words, make the motions, even if the effects didnt follow. Déjà Vu lvl 4 Save: Will * Special Casting time: 1 full round Duration: Instant Effect: Repeat the last full round, time begins again 2 rounds ago. Caster loses the spell, all other effects never happened that began. Initiative is rerolled, between the ground that made the save. After that iniative is set those who didn’t save roll initiative. The caster retains knowledge of what happened, and receive a +2 on rolls for 2 rounds.Those that saved have a sense, and receive a +1 on rolls for the next 2 rounds Hide in Time lvl 2 (time) Save: None Casting time: 1 action Duration: Up to 1D10 + Level rounds Area: 10 feet Cube Effect: Object disappears and reappears at the end of duration The caster knows when the object is do back. If the object can not reappear in the exact physical space it will reappear close. Objects held by another being can not disappear. Objects under direction observation can not disappear Objects must fit in 10x10 cube Instant Karma lvl 1 (evocation) Save: Will Casting time: 1 action Duration: Instant Area: 1 target Effect: The target of the spell suffers the damage it dealt last round to 1 other target (Only damage, not effects.) The damage shows up as similar wounds, but not effects. If a wound results in a sever, the target of the spell does not suffer a sever, unless they roll a 1 on thier save. Karma Ward lvl 4 Save: will for half Casting time: Duration: 1D4 times or 24 hours which ever is first. Area: Target Effect: Any attack on Target resulting in damage effects the dealer of the damage 3 times greater. The target pulse red before some might attack, giving the attack a chance to stay the attack. The number of times increases, increase to 1d8 if caster is over level 10 Greater Duration Manipulation lvl 4 (Time) Save None Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant Effect: A spell or effects duration is changed by an order of magnitude Instantenous Effects are uneffected Round to Minutes Minutes to Hours Hour to Days Days to Months Months to Years Years to Permament Time Jump lvl 3 (time) Save: NA Casting Time: 1 Action Duration 1d6 Effect: The cast skips ahead to X rounds. He gains initiative The caster can take additional life forms if touching. The caster knows what happen, but can take only free actions. Other lifeforms can take no action unless they have time traveler before. Moral Short lvl 2 (comlusion) Save: Will Casting time 1 action Duration: 10 minutes/ level Area: 1 target Effect: The caster picks a new alignment for the target. If the Alignment is opposite, the target gets a +4 to their save. The effect also dazes the target for 1d4 rounds, creatures that save are still dazed for 1 round. Target Switch Lvl 5 (Karma) Save: Will Casting Time: Free Action Duration: Instant Area 2 targets with in 100 ft. Effect: Physically switches two targets, or replaces a spells target with another, the effect is instant. The effect is so fast its possible for one target to hit themselves with a range attack, but not a gaze attack.
Adrian_Crane 02-15-07, 08:01 PM	Overall, these are seriously overpowered for the levels you have listed. Granted, I don't have much experience; the following are just my opinions: Glitch seems like it should be 7th level or so. Deja Vu, a do-over spell at 4th level? That's 9th level territory, if not epic. SERIOUSLY underlevel. Hide in Time is a very clever idea, and seems okay as is. Instant Karma is interesting; I'd probably change the save to Fort, though, and boost the level to 2nd. Karma Ward I'm having trouble understanding. First off, lower it to x2 instead of x3 damage. Second, how's this "stay the attack" bit work? Clarify that. Also, boost the level to at least 5, IMO. Greater Duration Manipulation should be the same level as Permanency--5th. This is because it can affect more spells. Time Jump should be caster only, and clarify what happens in the interim. The bit on other life forms needing "time traveler" makes no sense. Moral Short needs clarifying. What do you mean by opposed--both axes, or either? Target Switch I'm too unsure of to judge, but I'd say check out Baleful Transposition (think that's the name) in the Miniature's Handbook and just use that. You've got a lot of very original and interesting ideas, but I think they still need a good deal of tuning and balance to make them playable.
catharz 02-15-07, 08:38 PM	The Duration Manipulation spells are broken. The first one is hugely better than Extend Spell (one 1st level spell and one 5th level spell instead of a 6th level spell? Yes please!). The second one lets you make a rounds/level spell permanent by recasting it 6 times, and at no XP cost. A lot of the other spells mimic psionic powers, look in the SRD for appropriate levels.
fnord 02-15-07, 09:48 PM	Duration Manipulation lvl 2 (Time) Save: None Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant Effect: The duration of the spell or an effected is Doubled or Halved. Can only effect spells with a duration, in rounds, minutes, hours, days, years They don't have to be spells cast by the original caster. This is quite powerful, given that it can affect high level spells. I'd split this into 3 spells, lesser, [unnamed], and greater. Lesser: 2nd level, effects 3rd level or lower, [unnamed]: 5th level, effects 6th level or lower Greater: 8th level, effects all spells Glitch lvl 1 (Time, Complusion) Save: Will Casting Time: free action Duration: until they make save. Effect: Target repeats last rounds action until they make the save. Additional save receive +2, Third attemp, +4, Fourth attemp +6, Ect. If the action was an attack, and the target is still present, the attack suffers a -4. They start, as by magic, in the exact location they began the previous round. The outcome can change, but the motions by the target are the same, unless prevented by a new physical element. If they action doesn't make sense the motion is still attempted. Example, jumping over a table that is no longer there, the target would jump at the exact same time, and motion. Casting a spell they are out of, the target would utter the words, make the motions, even if the effects didnt follow. This is quite a bit more powerful than command, potentially keeping someone out of control for several rounds. With the increasing DC, it's not as powerful as Hold Person, but the free (should be swift) action casting time counts for a lot. 4th level probably (note that Quickened Command would be 5th). Déjà Vu lvl 4 Save: Will * Special Casting time: 1 full round Duration: Instant Effect: Repeat the last full round, time begins again 2 rounds ago. Caster loses the spell, all other effects never happened that began. Initiative is rerolled, between the ground that made the save. After that iniative is set those who didn’t save roll initiative. The caster retains knowledge of what happened, and receive a +2 on rolls for 2 rounds.Those that saved have a sense, and receive a +1 on rolls for the next 2 rounds Man, this is ridiculous. Time Regression is 9th level and costs 1000 xp, this spell seems to do the same thing, so that would be a good start. Hide in Time lvl 2 (time) Save: None Casting time: 1 action Duration: Up to 1D10 + Level rounds Area: 10 feet Cube Effect: Object disappears and reappears at the end of duration The caster knows when the object is do back. If the object can not reappear in the exact physical space it will reappear close. Objects held by another being can not disappear. Objects under direction observation can not disappear Objects must fit in 10x10 cube This seems reasonable. Instant Karma lvl 1 (evocation) Save: Will Casting time: 1 action Duration: Instant Area: 1 target Effect: The target of the spell suffers the damage it dealt last round to 1 other target (Only damage, not effects.) The damage shows up as similar wounds, but not effects. If a wound results in a sever, the target of the spell does not suffer a sever, unless they roll a 1 on thier save. This seems rather good for 1st level. At high levels, this could return large amounts of damage, but it does allow a save. 4th level, maybe 5th. Karma Ward lvl 4 Save: will for half Casting time: Duration: 1D4 times or 24 hours which ever is first. Area: Target Effect: Any attack on Target resulting in damage effects the dealer of the damage 3 times greater. The target pulse red before some might attack, giving the attack a chance to stay the attack. The number of times increases, increase to 1d8 if caster is over level 10 Compare Share Pain. This is better in some ways, worse in others, but notably only allows a save for half. Maybe 5th level. Greater Duration Manipulation lvl 4 (Time) Save None Casting Time: 1 action Duration: Instant Effect: A spell or effects duration is changed by an order of magnitude Instantenous Effects are uneffected Round to Minutes Minutes to Hours Hour to Days Days to Months Months to Years Years to Permament If this can affect the same spell more than once, the effect is significantly better than Wish. Any spell made permanent, wow. Even if it can't, it's still very, very good. This turns immediate buffs (1 round) into significant effects, round per level stuff into precombat, even multi encounter buffs, and makes every thing else last basically all day (or longer). Shapechange would last 170 hours (more than 7 days). I'd make it 9th, and charge perhaps 100xspell level xp. 1000 x spell level xp if it can affect the same spell more than once. And those are conservative estimates. Time Jump lvl 3 (time) Save: NA Casting Time: 1 Action Duration 1d6 Effect: The cast skips ahead to X rounds. He gains initiative The caster can take additional life forms if touching. The caster knows what happen, but can take only free actions. Other lifeforms can take no action unless they have time traveler before. If the other creatures have to be willing, this is probably OK, though there probably should be a limit on number or weight. If you can take unwilling creatures, bump it up a level and allow a Will save. Without a save, maybe 7th level. Moral Short lvl 2 (comlusion) Save: Will Casting time 1 action Duration: 10 minutes/ level Area: 1 target Effect: The caster picks a new alignment for the target. If the Alignment is opposite, the target gets a +4 to their save. The effect also dazes the target for 1d4 rounds, creatures that save are still dazed for 1 round. 2nd level? Are you kidding? Look at Morality Undone (BoVD). This is less powerful, but still; call it 7th or higher. Target Switch Lvl 5 (Karma) Save: Will Casting Time: Free Action Duration: Instant Area 2 targets with in 100 ft. Effect: Physically switches two targets, or replaces a spells target with another, the effect is instant. The effect is so fast its possible for one target to hit themselves with a range attack, but not a gaze attack. [/QUOTE] Should be an immediate action, not a free action. Seems to be a reasonable level, though. Maybe one level higher.