Post/Author/DateTime	Post
celloshane 08-15-04, 12:47 AM	A while back, I posted about a Dwarven Battlerager build. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=278116) Since I agreed with the response that Reaping Mauler was sup-optimal and Frenzied Beserker was too dangerous with such a low Will save, I changed the build for straight Battlerager and went looking for another PrC that would add to the character. I was able to find an acceptable PrC, Firestorm Beserker, in Dragon Magazine and put it to my DM; still pending approval. However, like everyone else, I'm now all caught up in the newest pretty; Deepwarden. (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4) So, putting Firestorm Beserker on the back burner (hehe, a little pun), I'd like to rework my character to accept DW. Now I'm kicking myself for switching out the original Ranger levels, but I made the switch at the last minute and things got a little mixed up. Here is the current character: Bifur DiamondArm Barbarian 2/ Fighter 1 Current XP - 5950 Str - 15 HP - 36 Dex - 14 Con - 19 Fort - 8 Int - 14 Ref - 2 Wis - 13 Will - 1 Cha - 8 Feats; Tireless, Power Attack, Cleave, Endurance. 1 Flaw; Vulnerable (-1 to AC) Skills; Climb 6, Intimidate 6, Jump 5, Knowledge(Religion) 2, Listen 5, Perform(Singing) 2, Survival 4 Current Equipment; MW Greataxe, 3 Throwing Hammers, Horned Helmet, MW Chain Shirt, 5 Tanglefoot Bags, spare Chain Shirt, 2 Kegs of Ale (He has a drinking problem:D ) Oh, and a newly acquired (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292247) War Wagon with Ballista! So, I could stick to my guns, take another level of Fighter and Barbarian, progress into Battlerager, cross-class the neccessary skills the hard way, and be ready to take Deepwarden when I'm done with Battlerager. I think my better option however, is to drop on 2 levels of Ranger next, progressing something like this; Lvl BAB Fort/Ref/Will Abilities/Feats Ran 1 4 7/3/0 Fav Enemy(Giant), Track, WildEmp, +1 Str Ran 2 5 8/4/0 TWF Brg 1 6 10/4/0 Rage 2/Day, Gruff, Rockgut, Feat* Dpw 1 7 12/4/2 Trap Sense +1 Dpw 2 8 13/4/3 Stone Warden, +1 Con Brg 2 9 14/4/3 Close-Q Fighting, Fearless, Feat* Brg 3 10 14/5/4 Rage 3/Day, IUS Brg 4 11 15/5/4 Great Cleave, Reckless Offensive Brg 5 12 15/5/4 Rage 4/Day, Nat Armor +2, +1 Con, Feat* Dpw 3 13 15/6/4 Animal Messenger Dpw 4 14 16/6/5 Trap Sense +2, Imp Uncanny Dodg Dpw 5 15 16/6/5 Stubborn Mind, Feat* Dpw 6 16 17/7/6 Sending, +1 Con Fgt 2 17 18/7/6 Bonus Feat* Bab 3 18 18/8/7 Trap Sense+4, Feat* Ran 3 19 18/8/8 Endurance** Bab 4 20 19/8/8 Rage 4/Day, Feat* *With this new layout, I no longer need to spend these feats on PrC requirements. I'm almost at a loss on what to take. If the game goes epic I should probably be prepared to take another PrC, in which case my original choices of Frenzied Beserker or Firestorm Beserker are the logical choices. Otherwise, I have a world of options at my fingertips. ** I'm reasonably sure I can talk my DM into allowing me to switch this bonus Endurance for a different bonus feat. If not, oh well. So, I like adding the ranger levels b/c it nets me TWF. Being a Battlerager it seems logical to put armor spikes to good use. It seems a slight waste to double up the Track feat, but so be it. Or, do you think I'm better off to forget Ranger, take all 5 levels of Battlerager, CC the skills, take a 2 level dip in DW, and then be prepared to take 8 levels of Firestorm Beserker (assuming my Dm approves the PrC)? If I spend the next 3 feats on Iron Will, Great Fortitude, and Toughness I'll be able to take Fst Beserker at level 13. I could also take Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, and a feat of my choice and qualify for Frz Beserker, but I'll still have a dangerously low Will save. Of couse considering how suicidal my character is, he could die next session making all of this a waste of time. :D
Naramyth 08-15-04, 03:34 AM	First off, AWESOME STORY!!!:D Next I think you should just suck it up and cross class the skills instead of the whole Ranger thing. You can find discussion on that in the "Best Tank PrC EVAR" thread. Take Deep Warden up to 2, or if your going epic, 5 to gain Stubborn Mind and see if your DM will let that fly as Slippery Mind for Void Disciple. Finally look into the Occult Slayer in the Complete Warrior, it can greatly help your saves and hooks you up with permenent Mind Blank, which owns the house.
celloshane 08-15-04, 05:12 AM	First off, Thanks! Secondly, thanks for the vote. I have seen the "Best Tank PrC EVAR" thread, you should find a post from me somewhere on the 4th or 5th page. Can you tell me where to find your version of Void Disciple? The version I'm seeing is in CD, and it's certainly not a fighter-type. As for the Occult Slayer, it certainly is an option. One thing does concern me though, more cross-class skills. Sure DW gives me 8 ranks/level to work with, but consider I'll need 14 to qualify for OS, I get 2 ranks to apply to my real skills. I'm not saying I have to be a skill monkey or anything, but it would be nice to use the ones I have. Heh, just noticed DW also makes it easy to qualify for Horizon Walker. Not that I think I'll be doing that, just seemed worth noting.
insatium 08-15-04, 12:03 PM	Void Incarnate is what Naramyth meant, its in the ELH, but not the Epic section of the SRD.
Naramyth 08-15-04, 02:08 PM	Void Incarnate is what Naramyth meant, its in the ELH, but not the Epic section of the SRD. Yes but not quite. Void Incarnate in in the "Epic insights" article found on wizards web sight.
Oh Well... 08-15-04, 05:22 PM	You have the brains for combat expertise and a decent dex. You may want to invest some feats and go for KARMIC STRIKE (CW). The reasoning is that even with Con to AC at high levels you will be hit. This allows you to hurt the enemy back (up to 3 times per round!) for every hit. With your HP total and the ranger's access to CLW wands you should be fine.
celloshane 08-16-04, 05:29 PM	So, I should count that as a Ranger vote? Well, thats 1 and 1. Man, I hate riding the fence. Oh, and I looked over Void Incarnate. It wouldn't be possible for the character to qualify anyway. I'm lacking Evasion and the skills points to make the requirements. It is however, an option for my rogue character that got put on hold. Anyway, is there anything I'm missing in the above build? Could there be a way to eke out a better will save? I'm sure it can be tweaked somehow but where?
celloshane 08-17-04, 02:26 AM	No more opinions? Could really use some advice here, next session is tommorrow night. :bump:
celloshane 08-17-04, 03:11 PM	Ok, this is the last time I'll bump. Could I just get 1 more opinion though? Even if you think it's too close to call, say so. Some sort of response, any sort of response... :bump:
potsick 08-17-04, 03:37 PM	I don't see the reason behind your last five levels. You are only gaining 1 extra rage per day and a feat. The sixth level BR Sending doesn't seem too great either. There would have to be a PrC out there that would give you more flavor and abilities. You have a number of feats that you need to fill so gaining the feat requirements for most PrC's shouldn't be a problem. What about FTR 2 then Pious Templar 1-4. You could worship the Dwarven God Healga Brightaxe (or omething like that). She has the Dwarven war axe as her favored weapon. So you would need to pick up Weapon Focus War axe, and the feat True Believer (Complete Divine). Over four levels you would gain Mettle, Smite 1/day, Damage Reduction 1/- (I know, not that great), Weapon Specialization and one extra feat. You would also gain a first and second level spell like divine favor and bulls strength among others. Your Will save will go up by 4 and your fortitude save by 5. You get full BAB as well.
potsick 08-17-04, 04:07 PM	Another option might be 5 levels of Divine Champion. You would get Two extra feats, Smite infidel (With your CHR you would only get bonus to damage), +2 on saves vs. divine spells and spell-like and supernatural abilities of outsiders, and the 1/day dr/- and +3 to attacks, damage and saves. The down side is only +1 increase in your will save. Also, have a look at the Marshal Class in MHB. Might be something interesting if you want abilities to enhance the rest of your party not just yourself. Not necessarily the most optimized ideas but they may suit your character and add some flavor and abilities. Thats about all I got without all my stuff infront of me.
celloshane 08-17-04, 04:51 PM	Thanks for the points Potsick. Those last five levels might be a good point to work in the afore mentioned Occult Slayer, or one of my original choices. Pious Templar seems a little out of sync with the character right now, but I'll keep it in mind. A lot can happen in 10 levels, and Barbarian Dwarves get a new deity in RoS; Hanseath, who's favored weapon happens to be the Greataxe. With my low Cha, Divine Champion and Marshal don't bring much to the table. If a chance circumstance happens to increase my Cha a considerable amount, they might be worth considering. Again, a lot can happen in 10 levels.