Advanced Revenant Blade advice needed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advanced Revenant Blade advice needed [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Auldar
10-02-06, 10:57 PM Hi guys,

I need some help. I'm going round in circles trying to determine the best build for an upcoming campaign.

First a little history for those who care - if not, feel free to skip this section.

The character in question is a Wood Elf Ranger 3, with enough XP to advance to Ranger 4. He's currently spec'ed for Archery. My other character is the Arctic Dwarf linked in my sig, also level 4. Other party members are a level 4 cleric, a level 4 wizard, a cleric1/healer1/druid1, and a DM run NPC who's a Battle Sorcerer2/Fighter 2.

At present, we're playing The Secret of Bone Hill as a 3.5 conversion.

I had indicated to my DM early in the adventure that I'd love to play a Revenant Blade at some point.

At the start of the last session, my DM told me he thinks the party needs more melee characters, and he wouldn't mind if I changed my ranger focus from Archery to Melee.

Our next campaign is going to be the Red Hand of Doom - we've probably got another 2 sessions left in Bone Hill, but my DM has told me he'll make sure we're level 5 before he moves us into RHoD. I've read that it might actually be a good idea to keep an archer in the party for RHoD, however my DM has indicated he'd bring in an NPC archer if he felt we needed it, and still feels we need more melee characters.

After that, I think we'll be playing a conversion of Against the Giants, and eventually fight our way down to the Demon Web Pits to fight Lolth. (As such, consider most of the below builds to include the Elf Ranger 1 sub level from RotW to pick up Servants of Lolth as a FE).

So, I now have a character who strictly speaking *should* have 3 levels in ranger, but I think as long as he keeps at least 2 levels in ranger, it will be fine with my DM. He's got about 7800gp to spend (6000 really since I'll be grabbing a Zaelshin Tu).

I do want him to be a Revenant Blade - it's just such a powerful melee PrC, which has some really cool flavor.

I've gone through nastynate's RB thread, and have come up with the following build concepts.. I just can't think which is best, or whether I should change the order I take PrCs.. (note, most builds are using flaws to get the feats required).

I'm really looking for advice on if/when to take Stalker of Kharash vs the 5 level of RB. If/when to take Warblade, and or some ToB PrCs. If/when I should focus on some Strength boosting PrCs like FB/Primeval/Berserk (similar to my sig'ed character). If/when I should take some other PrC/feat that I haven't considered.

Things that are making my choice difficult:

1. I'd really love to get a Pounce-like ability into the build ASAP.

2. Getting to the 5th level of Revenant Blade to treat both ends of the Valenar Double Scimitar as two-handed for Power Attack etc is pretty essential - this will make the rest of the build shine, particularly the Stalker builds. Ideally, I wanted to do that by level 10.

3. Stalker of Kharash + Favored Power Attack + RB5 = 3:1 power attack ratio with both ends of the Valenar Double Scimitar for the majority of enemies. This is the biggest reason I want to take Stalker. However, it chews up 3 feats (2 of which are wasted), and 2 levels to get this. Should I just drop this idea?

4. Getting some ToB flavor into the build would be pretty cool - Iron Heart Surge, Pouncing Charge etc would be cool.

NOTE: I can use any WOTC D&D book. Dragon is frowned on, although acceptable if it just adds a bonus feat or so (ie no blatantly broken Dragon material).

Option 1 - Exalted Ranger RB with good animal companion:

Ranger 5/Revenant Blade 5/Ranger +1(retrain level 6 Imp. TWF)/Beastmaster 2/Stalker of Karash 2/Lion of Talisid 5

This has good flavor. Nice and simple, a bit of favored enemy synergy, a bit of animal companion synergy.

Initially I was thinking of having a Valenar Warhorse as an animal companion, but I think there are better choices, especially since it ends up with improvements as though he was a level 17 druid (he takes Natural Bond at level 6).

He gets Lion's Charge at level 15 where his effective ranger level for spells is 8 (0 2nd level spells per day - 1 with a decent wis). This feels way too late, and the 5th level LoT ability grants it at level 20.

Option 2 is to forget about enhancing the animal companion and introduce some ToB:

Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1/RB 5/Stalker of Kharash 2/XXX 8

The last 8 levels are open, however I thought of using Primeval to get a bit of a Strength boost. The flavor doesn't work well with RB, but meh - this isn't the roleplaying boards. If he used a mouthpick weapon (don't like this), he could take dire lion, or alternatively he could take Dire Ape and just use his hands (my other character also uses Primeval (Dire Ape) - linked in my sig. Not a big deal I guess, they're significantly different styles).

This would then also involve a Shapeshifter dip, and a 2 level warshaper dip. I'd only be able to take 1 more Warblade level unless I took another fighter and barb level (to avoid XP penalties).

This build gets Favored Enemy (Evil) sooner, but I'm struggling to find ways to get pounce-like abilities into this build - the warblade levels are too few. Even with Bracers of Tiger Claw, he wouldn't have the initiator level until level 16 to get Pouncing Charge.. (2 warblade, 14 non-initiator = IL9).

Option 3 is to go for more Favored Enemy bonuses (I disagree with CustServ's interpretation on improving FE (Evil) with ranger):

Ranger 4/Barb 1/RB 5/SoK 2/Ranger +2 (retrain level 6 Imp. TWF)/Shadow Scout 1/XXX 5

This gets Lions Charge at level 14 (Ranger and SoK levels = 8). FE bonus to evil can be improved by both the 5th ranger level and the Shadow Scout level by 2 more each (Shadow Scout is +1, but it's 3.0 - 3.5 updated FE bonuses to +2). Imp. Favored Enemy increases all FE bonuses by 3.

Option 4 is to forget about Stalker of Kharash:

Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barb 1/Warblade 1/RB 5/Fighter +1 (GTWF)/XXX 9

Option 5 is to take Stalker of Kharash earlier (since most enemies in RHoD are evil):

Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barb 1/Warblade 1/SoK 2/RB 5/XXXX 8

I'd get Favored Enemy (evil) earlier, but favored power attack wouldn't be useful with the off-hand of the weapon until level 12 (can't power attack with a "light" weapon, which is what the off-hand is until RB level 5).

Option 6 is to focus more on Warblade:

Ranger 5/RB 5/Ranger +1(retrain Imp. TWF)/SoK 2/Warblade 7

Haven't really thought too hard about this one. I could probably work in a ToB PrC instead of some of the latter Warblade levels, and/or could drop SoK. I want to avoid XP penalties..

Which option do you think I should take? Can you think of better ways to do this?
Xeraph
10-03-06, 05:20 AM First of all, the best setup (or most preferred) for a Revenant Blade is Ranger 3/ Fighter 2. I follow this assumption.

Thereafter I think its vital to take all levels of Revenatn Blade first. The abilities it gets are just to good.

So, Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Revenant Blade 5 is the usual and very workable and effective setup.

From here on I would go Warmind 5 (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicWarMind.html)/ Slayer 5 (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicSlayer.html). This will give you Psinic Lions Pounce, which is freakin great, it will give you Sweeping Strike, which is freakin great, and Favored Enemy (Drow'lies) +4 if youd like. (The Slayer needs some adjusting, but there are certainly Psionic Drows, so I dont see why it shouldn't work.)
Auldar
10-03-06, 06:37 AM Ah yes, sorry - neglected to mention, no psionics :(

Thanks for the advice all the same.

Any other suggestions within that limitation?
Xeraph
10-03-06, 01:40 PM I see, well have you considered the Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine 336? I mean, since you advance so much in Ranger Spellcasting, I thought you might wanna get best of it.
Remember Lions Pounce is a fourth level Ranger spell, so no worries
there.

Ranger 3/ Fighter 2 is still a great start of. Continue with RB the SoK.

Another fierce TWF is the Justiciar of Taaia from Deities and Demigods. Also the flavor meshes great with the whole Valenar thing.

Actually, Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ RB 5/ JoT 10 would be a monster!
Auldar
10-03-06, 07:37 PM Thanks again :)

Just one correction:

Remember Lions Pounce is a fourth level Ranger spell

The Spell Compendium updated Lion's Charge to Ranger level 2, druid 3.

I'll take a look at the Mystic Ranger though, but it seems like it gains a lot more than it loses and I don't know if my DM will be happy with it.

I'll take a look at Justicar of Taaia too - our Cleric happens to have Taaia as her deity, so it works well with the party.

EDIT: Ah - I see it's dedicated to the Destroyer aspect.. The cleric has the Creator aspect :P Could be interesting :P
Auldar
10-05-06, 10:34 PM Anyone else with some input?

I think I'm going to play:

Ranger 2/Bear Totem Barb 1/Pugilist (Fighter) 1/Warblade 1/RB 5/Primeval 1/Shapeshifter 1/Puglist +1/Berserk 1/Warshaper 3/Primeval +2/Warblade +1

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Auldar 10-02-06, 10:57 PM	Hi guys, I need some help. I'm going round in circles trying to determine the best build for an upcoming campaign. First a little history for those who care - if not, feel free to skip this section. The character in question is a Wood Elf Ranger 3, with enough XP to advance to Ranger 4. He's currently spec'ed for Archery. My other character is the Arctic Dwarf linked in my sig, also level 4. Other party members are a level 4 cleric, a level 4 wizard, a cleric1/healer1/druid1, and a DM run NPC who's a Battle Sorcerer2/Fighter 2. At present, we're playing The Secret of Bone Hill as a 3.5 conversion. I had indicated to my DM early in the adventure that I'd love to play a Revenant Blade at some point. At the start of the last session, my DM told me he thinks the party needs more melee characters, and he wouldn't mind if I changed my ranger focus from Archery to Melee. Our next campaign is going to be the Red Hand of Doom - we've probably got another 2 sessions left in Bone Hill, but my DM has told me he'll make sure we're level 5 before he moves us into RHoD. I've read that it might actually be a good idea to keep an archer in the party for RHoD, however my DM has indicated he'd bring in an NPC archer if he felt we needed it, and still feels we need more melee characters. After that, I think we'll be playing a conversion of Against the Giants, and eventually fight our way down to the Demon Web Pits to fight Lolth. (As such, consider most of the below builds to include the Elf Ranger 1 sub level from RotW to pick up Servants of Lolth as a FE). So, I now have a character who strictly speaking should have 3 levels in ranger, but I think as long as he keeps at least 2 levels in ranger, it will be fine with my DM. He's got about 7800gp to spend (6000 really since I'll be grabbing a Zaelshin Tu). I do want him to be a Revenant Blade - it's just such a powerful melee PrC, which has some really cool flavor. I've gone through nastynate's RB thread, and have come up with the following build concepts.. I just can't think which is best, or whether I should change the order I take PrCs.. (note, most builds are using flaws to get the feats required). I'm really looking for advice on if/when to take Stalker of Kharash vs the 5 level of RB. If/when to take Warblade, and or some ToB PrCs. If/when I should focus on some Strength boosting PrCs like FB/Primeval/Berserk (similar to my sig'ed character). If/when I should take some other PrC/feat that I haven't considered. Things that are making my choice difficult: 1. I'd really love to get a Pounce-like ability into the build ASAP. 2. Getting to the 5th level of Revenant Blade to treat both ends of the Valenar Double Scimitar as two-handed for Power Attack etc is pretty essential - this will make the rest of the build shine, particularly the Stalker builds. Ideally, I wanted to do that by level 10. 3. Stalker of Kharash + Favored Power Attack + RB5 = 3:1 power attack ratio with both ends of the Valenar Double Scimitar for the majority of enemies. This is the biggest reason I want to take Stalker. However, it chews up 3 feats (2 of which are wasted), and 2 levels to get this. Should I just drop this idea? 4. Getting some ToB flavor into the build would be pretty cool - Iron Heart Surge, Pouncing Charge etc would be cool. NOTE: I can use any WOTC D&D book. Dragon is frowned on, although acceptable if it just adds a bonus feat or so (ie no blatantly broken Dragon material). Option 1 - Exalted Ranger RB with good animal companion: Ranger 5/Revenant Blade 5/Ranger +1(retrain level 6 Imp. TWF)/Beastmaster 2/Stalker of Karash 2/Lion of Talisid 5 This has good flavor. Nice and simple, a bit of favored enemy synergy, a bit of animal companion synergy. Initially I was thinking of having a Valenar Warhorse as an animal companion, but I think there are better choices, especially since it ends up with improvements as though he was a level 17 druid (he takes Natural Bond at level 6). He gets Lion's Charge at level 15 where his effective ranger level for spells is 8 (0 2nd level spells per day - 1 with a decent wis). This feels way too late, and the 5th level LoT ability grants it at level 20. Option 2 is to forget about enhancing the animal companion and introduce some ToB: Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 1/RB 5/Stalker of Kharash 2/XXX 8 The last 8 levels are open, however I thought of using Primeval to get a bit of a Strength boost. The flavor doesn't work well with RB, but meh - this isn't the roleplaying boards. If he used a mouthpick weapon (don't like this), he could take dire lion, or alternatively he could take Dire Ape and just use his hands (my other character also uses Primeval (Dire Ape) - linked in my sig. Not a big deal I guess, they're significantly different styles). This would then also involve a Shapeshifter dip, and a 2 level warshaper dip. I'd only be able to take 1 more Warblade level unless I took another fighter and barb level (to avoid XP penalties). This build gets Favored Enemy (Evil) sooner, but I'm struggling to find ways to get pounce-like abilities into this build - the warblade levels are too few. Even with Bracers of Tiger Claw, he wouldn't have the initiator level until level 16 to get Pouncing Charge.. (2 warblade, 14 non-initiator = IL9). Option 3 is to go for more Favored Enemy bonuses (I disagree with CustServ's interpretation on improving FE (Evil) with ranger): Ranger 4/Barb 1/RB 5/SoK 2/Ranger +2 (retrain level 6 Imp. TWF)/Shadow Scout 1/XXX 5 This gets Lions Charge at level 14 (Ranger and SoK levels = 8). FE bonus to evil can be improved by both the 5th ranger level and the Shadow Scout level by 2 more each (Shadow Scout is +1, but it's 3.0 - 3.5 updated FE bonuses to +2). Imp. Favored Enemy increases all FE bonuses by 3. Option 4 is to forget about Stalker of Kharash: Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barb 1/Warblade 1/RB 5/Fighter +1 (GTWF)/XXX 9 Option 5 is to take Stalker of Kharash earlier (since most enemies in RHoD are evil): Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barb 1/Warblade 1/SoK 2/RB 5/XXXX 8 I'd get Favored Enemy (evil) earlier, but favored power attack wouldn't be useful with the off-hand of the weapon until level 12 (can't power attack with a "light" weapon, which is what the off-hand is until RB level 5). Option 6 is to focus more on Warblade: Ranger 5/RB 5/Ranger +1(retrain Imp. TWF)/SoK 2/Warblade 7 Haven't really thought too hard about this one. I could probably work in a ToB PrC instead of some of the latter Warblade levels, and/or could drop SoK. I want to avoid XP penalties.. Which option do you think I should take? Can you think of better ways to do this?
Xeraph 10-03-06, 05:20 AM	First of all, the best setup (or most preferred) for a Revenant Blade is Ranger 3/ Fighter 2. I follow this assumption. Thereafter I think its vital to take all levels of Revenatn Blade first. The abilities it gets are just to good. So, Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Revenant Blade 5 is the usual and very workable and effective setup. From here on I would go Warmind 5 (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicWarMind.html)/ Slayer 5 (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicSlayer.html). This will give you Psinic Lions Pounce, which is freakin great, it will give you Sweeping Strike, which is freakin great, and Favored Enemy (Drow'lies) +4 if youd like. (The Slayer needs some adjusting, but there are certainly Psionic Drows, so I dont see why it shouldn't work.)
Auldar 10-03-06, 06:37 AM	Ah yes, sorry - neglected to mention, no psionics :( Thanks for the advice all the same. Any other suggestions within that limitation?
Xeraph 10-03-06, 01:40 PM	I see, well have you considered the Mystic Ranger from Dragon Magazine 336? I mean, since you advance so much in Ranger Spellcasting, I thought you might wanna get best of it. Remember Lions Pounce is a fourth level Ranger spell, so no worries there. Ranger 3/ Fighter 2 is still a great start of. Continue with RB the SoK. Another fierce TWF is the Justiciar of Taaia from Deities and Demigods. Also the flavor meshes great with the whole Valenar thing. Actually, Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ RB 5/ JoT 10 would be a monster!
Auldar 10-03-06, 07:37 PM	Thanks again :) Just one correction: Remember Lions Pounce is a fourth level Ranger spell The Spell Compendium updated Lion's Charge to Ranger level 2, druid 3. I'll take a look at the Mystic Ranger though, but it seems like it gains a lot more than it loses and I don't know if my DM will be happy with it. I'll take a look at Justicar of Taaia too - our Cleric happens to have Taaia as her deity, so it works well with the party. EDIT: Ah - I see it's dedicated to the Destroyer aspect.. The cleric has the Creator aspect :P Could be interesting :P
Auldar 10-05-06, 10:34 PM	Anyone else with some input? I think I'm going to play: Ranger 2/Bear Totem Barb 1/Pugilist (Fighter) 1/Warblade 1/RB 5/Primeval 1/Shapeshifter 1/Puglist +1/Berserk 1/Warshaper 3/Primeval +2/Warblade +1