Post/Author/DateTime	Post
catharz 10-21-05, 05:55 PM	As of the latest Sage Advice, characters can Polymorph into both advanced & templated forms. [Edit] Also, humans who are Polymorphed loose their bonus feat and skill points (because those are "Extraordinary qualities"). ..."Its not stupid, its advanced." :rofl:
MysteryGilgamesh 10-21-05, 06:13 PM	...Gee. I wonder how many wizards are now going to be running around as Half Dragon Paragon Monster of Legend (insert 20 more templates here) creatures and polymorphing their fighter buddies into the same, now?
Pinky's brain 10-21-05, 06:18 PM	What did he say exactly? You'd think Andy Collins would be smarter than that.
Pellanor 10-21-05, 06:22 PM	yeah, would you be able to link to this, as I can't find it for the life of me.
Pinky's brain 10-21-05, 06:23 PM	I assume he is talking about the dragon magazine column.
Pellanor 10-21-05, 06:32 PM	oh, and here I was thinking he was refering to something on the wizards website. All I saw was the Rules of th egame on Carrying Capacity, and I'm all like, "that's got nothing to do with polymorph." Then I saw that the FAQ was updated yesterday, so I figure it might be there. bah. Somebody must tell us what was said then.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-21-05, 06:33 PM	That's ridiculous advice not "sage" advice! Lets see now... I'm 7th level wizard/Master Transogmofist and I cast polymorph to change into a Feral Phrenic Half-fiend Half-dragon Avdanced 15HD War Troll. Yeah, suck on that you puny fighter... Oh yeah, and using my infinite variety I also combine this form with that of a 12 headed pyro-hydra so that I now have 12 bite attacks on top of all of that and I can use these bites during a move action or on a charge (hydra ability). Stupid... stupid... I mean it's almost as cheesy as mind-switching with the tarrasque and fusing yourself with a swarm. :D Edited: to correct the illegal build... I prostrate before you Catharz in hopes that one day you may be able to forgive my HUGE error.
catharz 10-21-05, 07:01 PM	What did he say exactly? You'd think Andy Collins would be smarter than that. The rules don't explicitly prevent it, but for speed of play (and reasons of sanity) it's entirely reasonable for a DM to disallow any forms other than those detailed in the Monster Manual (or other allowed volumes of monsters). If the DM chooses to allow advanced creatures, the player must supply full atatistics for the advanced version before play begins. Remember that the Hit Die limit applies (a 7th-level wizard can't use polymorph to assume the form of a 10-HD advanced sahuagin. Again, the rules don't explicitly prevent thus [sic]--and in fact, some creatures whose forms are possible to assume with shapechange (such as vampires) only exist as templated creatures--but a player who wants to use this option is responsible for providing full statistics for the templated creature to avoid slowing game play. As always, you must still abide by the rules for the spell in question (for example, and elf wizard can't use alter self to become a half-dragon orc, since that's a dragon, not a humanoid). A human's bonus feat and bonus skill points--like most other racial traits--are considered extraordinary qualities, and thus are lost whenever the character would loose such abilities (including when polymorphed). This is a good reason to keep track of which feat is your human bonus feat, since it might have wide-reaching effects (for instance, if Dodge was your human bonus feat, you'd loose the benefits of any other feats that have Dodge as a prerequisite, such as Mobility and Spring Attack). Keeping track of where your racial bonus skill points are spent is more onerous, and likely less signifigant to play. If most of your skills are maxed out (that is, their rank equals your level +3, or half that for a cross-class skill), it's probably easiest simply to designate one skill as your repository for all your bonus skill points. For ease of play, some DMs ignore this side effect, but doing so represents a clear benefit granted to humans. Be aware that players of nonhuman characters may resent this "freebie." There is more stuff about things like the Choker shapechange explot (legal). IMO this is probably Andy's way of saying, 'Damn' you you rules-laywers! This is a game! Break it if you really want. The point is to have fun.' I'm 5th level wizard/Master Transogmofist Not a legal build
Pinky's brain 10-21-05, 07:30 PM	Oh man, that's so ... It isn't even like he doesn't understand the way rules carry over from alter self to polymorph, given that the loss of extraordinary qualities is not part of polymorph. Even if he had misread alter self and missed the part about templates he should have had second thoughts when thinking about the implications of stacking templates. Could it be he doesn't understand how templates work and how they can be stacked? Hmm did andy work on CA too? (Effigies.)
nihility 10-21-05, 09:21 PM	I suggest we ignore this unless it makes it into the official FAQ. If it makes it there, then... who am I kidding, the game doesn't have any teeth left to be kicked.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-21-05, 11:07 PM	heh, sorry... I meant 7th level wizard/ Master Transmogrofist... that works.