Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quenditar 06-19-05, 03:28 PM	I could use some help. There is a person in my group who has very little conception of tactics beyond "buff up and pound the enemy at melee range" and usually goes unconscious instead of retreating or switching positions with someone else. He's gotten a cleric killed, and his current cleric is looking like a goner too (though just as much because of good roleplaying as bad tactics). So he's working on a backup character. The character needs to be strong in melee, but also cast spells. For his sake, I want some advice on a character that could survive playing the way he plays. He will be coming in somewhere between levels 3 and 5. Any ideas?
thegreatbuddha 06-19-05, 03:32 PM	Dwarven Barbarian1/Fighter4. Take Iron Will and Improved Toughness, multiple times if possible.
rilem 06-19-05, 03:58 PM	Spellcaster + Strong Melee at level 3? Another cleric. Why does he need to be able to cast spells? What sort of spells? A bard can be decent in melee and a good spellcaster at these levels, too, but they involve more thinking — need to use bardic song, snowflake wardance and spells to good effect.
lgw 06-19-05, 04:57 PM	aasimar 1 / paladin 2 / sorc 2 (pal = cha to saves & selfheal two times cha in dire needs) (aasimar is mainly for +cha and being outsider for later alter self / polymorph). thats a pretty usual caster-melee charater. choose battle sorc if you like, but i'd recommend the usual sorc and going ek/spellsword/... good feats are power attack, trip, improved iniative, improved toughness and praticed spellcaster early on. good melee speels are enlarge, burning hands and ray of enfeeblement (no need for magic missile - just use a bow) - other spells as you like. stats of corse str, con & chaaa :-) other good build ? druid 5 :-) pretty forward casting & wildshape on 5th. get augment summuning and natural spell to cast spells anytime and spontenously summon nasty beasts :-)
Quenditar 06-19-05, 06:14 PM	Right now he's looking at straight paladin. He doesn't want to multiclass or use classes not in the PHB, but that limits the options a lot. He doesn't understand tactics well, so spells that take a lot of thought to use well are out. And any ideas need to be tough enough to withstand tanking duty (which really limits paladin/sorcerer builds).
Caterane 06-19-05, 06:22 PM	Yep, druid in this case. You can't do much wrong here. Wildshape, a buff or two, and pounce. If he doesn't want to learn the spell list, he should just summon animals who help him.
lgw 06-19-05, 07:41 PM	pal/sorc is not too wrong, as he has few spells anyway, so he cant do much wrong (given someone helped him to select the right spells). but yeah - druid all the way is best: buff (bulls strength and barkskin is quite straight forward) yourself before, have some healing for afterwards as spells. if need, summon some beasts (you can do than spotaneously - augment here for +4 str +4 con with the augment summoning). have some utility / damage spells ready (eg spider climb, call lightning, talk to plants and stuff - as he wishes and feels like). thats it for the spells - not too hard. and for combat - wildshape all the way (natural spell here to cast anytime and not waste wildshapes :-) druid-20 (besides maybe a wise played monk-20) is far the best you can do with core only. sample build (25 / 28 / 32 point buy): race human str 13 / 13 / 13 (qualify for power attack chain) dex 10 / 10 / 10 con 12 / 12 / 12 (keep at least basic hp) int 12 / 12 / 14 (more skills) wis 16 / 17 / 17 (prime stat - boost this one on level ups) cha 8 / 8 / 10 note that mental abilitys rule later on, as you should be wildshaped 24/7 then. feats: track (bonus), spellfocus conjuration (1st), augment summoning (3rd), natural spell (6th), extend spell (9th), quicken (12th), power attack (15th), cleave (18th) skills: concentration, knowledge nature, listen, spot, survival - bonus from int 14: diplomacy, heal, handle animal or spellcraft (maybe shift some points to them later, if you feel you have enough of the first 5 skills) languages: common, druidic, sylvan (draconic) typical spells prepared on 5th level: 1st - entangle (2), pass without trace, cure light wounds 2nd - bulls strength, resist energy, cure moderate wounds 3rd - call lightning, wind wall (could include some more utility spells, at least as long you can imitate them via wildshape - orisons as you like) important: use items that can be worn after wildshape to keep them functional animal comapanion: wolf (good fighter, you autobuff it as long as he stays within 5ft, makes free trip attacks), remember it gains more skills, feats etc as it - too - increases its hd. hp at 5th: 31 - saves at 5th: 5 fort, 1 ref, 7 will (both may change in wild shaped form) tactics on 5th: engange in melee in normal form with wolf's support normally (use hide armor, heavy wooden shield and scitimar). call lightning and wind wall for ranged uses / tough melee enemys, sling's not bad too. bulls strength & wildshape (black bear - 3 attacks and medium !), resist energy and entangle when in the need for. summon natures ally just as you need them for support (most important thing here - learn you options !!). note that this build is pure core - complete adventurer and maybe divine offer huge boost in things, ecspecially feat wise (reapply stats appropriatly). hope i could help :-)
Quenditar 06-22-05, 05:40 PM	Thanks for the build! Most of it he's already approved. Do you have any advice about equipment? He plans to use wildshape a lot (we roll our stats, so he wound up with Str 9) and so my normal equipment-buying plans don't work. The game is 3.5, so stuff from Masters of the Wild would require DM approval, which is doubtful. Core is better, because he doesn't have the books (I do).
lgw 06-23-05, 06:34 AM	again, i point at complete adventurer :-) if he is that very fond of wildshaping, he should at least have a look at druid5/master of many forms10/warshaper 5 - tough you lose spellcasting. (if you play with la buyoff from unearthed let him be an aasimar maybe). what are his stats then ? str 9 is really fine if you wildshape - just take a good think about the 2 spare feats (power and cleave are real goodies) - maybe take a look at complete adv again, it's the druids book :-) equipment... i don't know. right just anything that can be used in anyform. periapt, ioun stones, ... (master of many forms has more advantages, as he changes his equip with him) ecspecially look into offense / defense, as all normal wildshape form lack a good ac - so you either want have good staying qualities or boost your attack so much, that you make meat of anything _really_ fast (good option here: use your natures ally as meatbuffer and make use of flanking)
Funny Slaughter 06-23-05, 08:06 AM	i would not suggest momf, compared to a straight druid it is not powerful at all. as i repeat to say: the time your shaping power comes into the region of working porperly its no longer important, all about spells, then. plain druid is a powerful and good build. rely on summoning, wildshape, buff yourself, your companion and your summons and go whacking. gs Funny