Advice for AoO build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice for AoO build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
heax
08-29-06, 03:44 PM I am looking into making a new character for a long-lived Eberron campaign I've been a part of for almost a year now. My current character is getting married, so is leaving the adventuring troupe. My new character is going to be somewhat different.

I've decided to make an AoO build centered around a changeling warshaper with a spiked chain. I took feats such as Stand Still, Sidestep Charge, and Improved Trip.

Stats are amazing (We use a very high-powered set-up)
The DM is also using a variant Feat/Ability score advancement. Every third and fourth level can be either a feat OR an ability score point.

I aim at being a 4th level fighter, 4th level warshaper, 2nd level [Exotic Weapon Master] or something else.

All sources are allowed, except Faerun stuff, or other campaign setting material (other than Eberron, naturally.)

Any advice?

EDIT: I also have Aberration Blood and Inhuman Reach, giving me a reach from 5ft to 20ft.
Person_Man
08-29-06, 05:41 PM Abberation Blood and Inhuman Reach, from Lords of Madness: Adds +5 reach.

Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall), from Heroes of Horror: Adds +5 reach.

Extended reach (requires tentacle or similar non-rigid attack form, which is accomplished from the description of Inhuman reach), from Savage Species: Adds +5 reach.

4th level Warshaper just gets you Fast Healing. This will have minimal impact in combat. And while its nice that you won't need him after combat, at 8th level there shouldn't be any problem with your cleric healing you after every encounter. Consider Warshaper 3.

Instead of Fighter, consider Psy War or Knight. In addition to a couple bonus feats, a Psy War will get you Expansion. Increased Size = Increased Reach. It also gives you access to various powers that will buff your attacks.

Knight will net you Bulwark of Defense, Test of Mettle, and Vigilant Defender, all phenominal abilities to have with a high reach AoO maker.

One level of Monk with the Decisive Strike class feature from PHBII is also very useful.

One level of Exotic Weapon Master will let you take AoO on people with cover. Remember, reach weapons act like ranged weapons for determining cover, so if a friend or enemy is in the way of the person you're trying to attack, they get +4 to AC and you can't take AoO on them.

Also, unless you want to be an Exotic Weapon Master, you don't need to waste a feat on spiked chain. Improved unarmed attack from monk or just simple armor spikes or spiked gauntlets let's you threaten everyone.

With Inhuman Reach, Deformity Tall, Extended Reach, Expansion, plus Warshaper reach, and any reach weapon, your total reach will be 50 feet (60 feet when you get enough levels to use the improved version of Expansion). This should be enough to hit pretty much anyone, anywhere.
Zendu
08-29-06, 06:00 PM I disagree, if your allready 3 into warshaper, why not get the free healing. This could mean your cleric saves healing for during combat, isntead of after.

Dont forget about that sandsnare feat from sandstorm.
heax
08-29-06, 06:01 PM Improved unarmed attack from monk or just simple armor spikes or spiked gauntlets let's you threaten everyone.

I don't need either. With Warshaper I can form natural weapons as a move action- with no cap on how many, within reason. Two claws, a bite, a sting, two tentacles, a gore, and a tail slam. That mixed with "unarmed attacks" (knees, elbows, etc..) I can make a series of attacks.

Good advice about the monk and the decisive strike- I think I'll do that. Two levels of monk, three of Knight for the Bulwark of Defense (way cool), three levels of Warshaper, and one or two of Citadel Elite, with the possible second being Exotic Weapon Master. That requires two feats though...

Without being able to hit characters with cover, why not Starspawn for temporary flight? That wouldn't be so bad, would it?
heax
08-29-06, 06:01 PM Actually... we have no cleric. I think we have an artificer/windwright captain. He provides potions like no tomorrow, but that's it.
heax
08-29-06, 06:05 PM Dont forget about that sandsnare feat from sandstorm.

How does that help?
Taeldrin Laesrash
08-29-06, 07:56 PM How high level are you? If you're at least 12th level, you should hopefully be able to qualify for Robilar's Gambit, which would save you a lot of trouble. If not, take the Defensive Throw feat (And its prerequisites) and Karmic Strike if you have the feats to spare. From there, Improved and Greater Combat Reflexes help (Both are from Dragon #341).
Zendu
08-29-06, 08:06 PM How does that help?
How doesn't it? Limits what his enemies can do and hes allready a trip fiend. Hes drowning in feats anyway.
heax
08-29-06, 10:56 PM How high level are you?

Level 10. Is there any really, really good feat for an AoO master? I have a whole bunch of goodness already, but I have a single feat slot left.
heax
08-29-06, 10:57 PM How doesn't it? Limits what his enemies can do and hes allready a trip fiend. Hes drowning in feats anyway.

What I meant was 'what does it do'? I have access to the book itself within my gaming group, but I don't have it with me here.
Surreal
08-30-06, 01:53 AM What I meant was 'what does it do'? I have access to the book itself within my gaming group, but I don't have it with me here.
If you trip your foe within a sandy area, it takes them a full round action to get back up. Really nice if you can get an effect in there that limits them to a standard/move action a round, so then it takes them two rounds to get up. A rogue with Staggering Strike works quite well.
FriendlyFrog
08-30-06, 04:35 AM If you really want to get cheesy (and your DM is crazy), take the feat Knock-down (it's in the Divine section of SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html), I think it's originally from Miniatures handbook). With every AoO you attack the opponent, get a free trip attempt if you do 10 or more damage, and get a free attack if you manage to trip your opponent. Great when used in conjunction with Karmic strike.

And just as was mentioned, Psychic warrior is great for Expansion. Huge size gives a lot of natural reach!
Bonzai
08-30-06, 10:45 AM I have been working on an AoO fighter as well. I was using a long spear instead. The Combo I was looking for was Combat Reflexes + Thicket of blades (ToB stance) + Defensive sweep. Thicket of blades makes anyone moving in your threatened area (includung 5 ft step) draw an attack of opportunity. Defensive sweep makes anyone who doesn't move in the area you threaten, draw an attack of opportunity. So basically, if it's in your threatened area, you get an AoO.

So compliment it, I was going to get cleave and whirlwind attacks. I have never seen the Knock Down feat.....But oh hell yeah! Especially if the OP'ers using a spiked chain!
Leugren
08-30-06, 10:59 AM I have been working on an AoO fighter as well. I was using a long spear instead. The Combo I was looking for was Combat Reflexes + Thicket of blades (ToB stance) + Defensive sweep. Thicket of blades makes anyone moving in your threatened area (includung 5 ft step) draw an attack of opportunity. Defensive sweep makes anyone who doesn't move in the area you threaten, draw an attack of opportunity. So basically, if it's in your threatened area, you get an AoO.

So compliment it, I was going to get cleave and whirlwind attacks. I have never seen the Knock Down feat.....But oh hell yeah! Especially if the OP'ers using a spiked chain!

Hate to throw a wrench into your plans but Defensive Sweep only affects opponents that are adjacent to you -- as in occupying a 5-foot square that touches one of the 5-foot squares that you occupy. Still a nice feat, but doesn't synergize nearly as well as you think for mega-reach AoO specialists. Thicket of Blades on the other hand is totally awesome, especially when combined with mega-reach and the Stand Still feat from the Expanded Psionic Handbook. Anyone who enters your threatened area becomes stuck like a fly; unable to get any closer, but also unable to escape. From experience, the Reflex saves for the Stand Still feat are quite difficult for anyone to make, especially if you're averaging more than 20 points of damage per hit. The only opponents that can get close to you are dedicated tumblers and creatures with the same reach as you. For these exceptions, I rely on Robilar's Gambit to ensure that I hit them harder and more often than they hit me.

EDIT: The new Evasive Reflexes feat from Tome of Battle is also a nice addition to any AoO specialist's repertoire. Combined with Robilar's Gambit, it can be used to ensure that noone gets a full attack against you again!
Dark1ord
08-30-06, 11:16 AM If you really want to get cheesy (and your DM is crazy), take the feat Knock-down (it's in the Divine section of SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html), I think it's originally from Miniatures handbook).hmm, isn't it from Deities & Demigods - and Sword & Fist? meaning, isn't it 3.0?
FriendlyFrog
08-30-06, 11:25 AM hmm, isn't it from Deities & Demigods - and Sword & Fist? meaning, isn't it 3.0?
It's most likely in Deities and Demigods (being in the Divine section of SRD), but it is in another book too. Sword and Fist might be it, but I can't check it out at the moment. It still is in the official 3.5 SRD, though.
kilroo
08-30-06, 12:24 PM Edit: Never mind. I was using too many feats. Or more accurately had forgotten Combat Reflexes.
kilroo
08-30-06, 12:27 PM 10th level, huh?

I don't suppose one of the Martial Adept classes with access to Devoted Spirit grants a new stance at level 4? (I think Thicket of Blades is Devoted Spirit 3, right?) If so you could do:

Knight 3/Martial Adept 2/Warshaper 3/Martial Adept +2

Aberration Blood, Inhuman Reach, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and either one more feat or one stat increase I guess. If more tactically oriented feats are necessary you could give up the Inhuman Reach chain.

You threaten an impressive radius with Bulwark of Defense and Thicket of Blades. You can pick up Warshaper 4 for fast healing next level. You've also got Test of Mettle and whatever other Martial Adept tricks you've picked up. Your weaknesses compared to other possibilities are (1) because you're not using an exotic weapon you do have to concern yourself with soft cover and (2) unless Thicket of Blades is even more powerful than I think it is you don't yet have a strong defense against spring attackers with large amounts of movement and high tumble checks.

Disclaimer: I do not have Tome of Battle yet so if this is complete bunk it is due to ignorance, not stupididity.:D
Leugren
08-30-06, 12:38 PM Crusader grants access to Devoted Spirit and you need an initiator level of 5 in order to qualify for a 3rd-level stance. Your non-Crusader levels grant you 1 initiator level for every two levels, so you can qualify for Thicket of Blades with any the following level splits:

- Crusader 5
- Crusader 4 / non-Crusader 2
- Crusader 3 / non-Crusader 4
- Crusader 2 / non-Crusader 6
- Crusader 1 / non-Crusader 8
- non-Crusader 10

Note that, if possible, you'll want to pick up a Crusader level that grants a new stance as your last level. Otherwise, you'll need to use the Martial Stance feat to pick up Thicket of Blades, and in the case involving 0 Crusader levels, you'll also need the Martial Study feat to meet the prereqs for Martial Stance.
Apocabramanic
08-30-06, 12:44 PM Level 10. Is there any really, really good feat for an AoO master? I have a whole bunch of goodness already, but I have a single feat slot left.
Yeah, there actually is. Deft Opportunist! +4 on attack rolls for every AoO you make!
Wrathamon
08-30-06, 03:02 PM is there a way to do this with out being a changeling?
heax
08-30-06, 05:52 PM I have been working on an AoO fighter as well. I was using a long spear instead. The Combo I was looking for was Combat Reflexes + Thicket of blades (ToB stance) + Defensive sweep.

I am only at level 10. What level does Thicket of Blades require? Defensive sweep needs a few more levels than I have, anyhow, but I am aiming for it.
heax
08-30-06, 05:57 PM is there a way to do this with out being a changeling?

There is, but the character himself was made before the mechanics. His place in the story has already been caste to an extent. Besides, Changeling is the easiest way into Warshaper, which he gains the benefits from all the time. (+4 str, +4 con, immune to crits and stunning, extra reach, and any number of natural weapons I want.)

I don't have the Tome of Battle yet either, and am unsure how the whole stance thing helps- however, with any luck, a fellow gamer has picked up a copy so I may use Thicket of Blades.
Leugren
08-30-06, 07:56 PM I am only at level 10. What level does Thicket of Blades require? Defensive sweep needs a few more levels than I have, anyhow, but I am aiming for it.

See my previous posts!
kilroo
08-30-06, 08:00 PM Crusader grants access to Devoted Spirit and you need an initiator level of 5 in order to qualify for a 3rd-level stance. Your non-Crusader levels grant you 1 initiator level for every two levels, so you can qualify for Thicket of Blades with any the following level splits:

- Crusader 5
- Crusader 4 / non-Crusader 2
- Crusader 3 / non-Crusader 4
- Crusader 2 / non-Crusader 6
- Crusader 1 / non-Crusader 8
- non-Crusader 10

Note that, if possible, you'll want to pick up a Crusader level that grants a new stance as your last level. Otherwise, you'll need to use the Martial Stance feat to pick up Thicket of Blades, and in the case involving 0 Crusader levels, you'll also need the Martial Study feat to meet the prereqs for Martial Stance.

I have no idea why I was thinking you needed Initiator Level 7. At any rate, the levels at which a Crusader gains stances are still, as you mention, important.
heax
08-31-06, 05:09 PM Crusader grants access to Devoted Spirit and you need an initiator level of 5 in order to qualify for a 3rd-level stance. Your non-Crusader levels grant you 1 initiator level for every two levels, so you can qualify for Thicket of Blades with any the following level splits:

- Crusader 5
- Crusader 4 / non-Crusader 2
- Crusader 3 / non-Crusader 4
- Crusader 2 / non-Crusader 6
- Crusader 1 / non-Crusader 8
- non-Crusader 10

Note that, if possible, you'll want to pick up a Crusader level that grants a new stance as your last level. Otherwise, you'll need to use the Martial Stance feat to pick up Thicket of Blades, and in the case involving 0 Crusader levels, you'll also need the Martial Study feat to meet the prereqs for Martial Stance.

I would totally do that, with my final level being a Crusader level, however I do not have the ToB. I only know of one friend who has already bought it, but he's not in this particular gaming group.

But I've come to a decision.
Thicket of Blades combined with Stand Still is amazing, and with a reach of 20ft-25ft or so this Warshaper will be the envy of the Citadel.

I am running into a problem with this build. I would like three levels of knight, but that conflicts with the needing to take the crusader level towards the end. Does Crusader have a full BAB?
Crusader
Knight
Knight
Crusader
Warshaper
Warshaper
Warshaper
Knight
Crusader
Citadel Elite (for story purposes)

I get a total of 8 feats. From them I think I'll take the required Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Aberrant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Extended Reach, plus three others, or ability score increases. WIth the knight levels I gain Bulwark of Defense, and the warshaper levels net me higher physical stats and immunity to criticals. With Steadfast Boots I would be nearly undefeatable.

What weapon should I use?
kilroo
08-31-06, 10:08 PM I'd go with a guisarme unless you intend to buy an exotic weapon and go EWM later. Or if you are gonna do that but don't want to spend the feat yet. It's the easiest martial reach weapon that you can trip with to come by, as far as I know.

Unless your DM houserules Halberds as reach weapons, in which case take the halberd. One of my DM's does, I know some others do, but some don't, so check.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
heax 08-29-06, 03:44 PM	I am looking into making a new character for a long-lived Eberron campaign I've been a part of for almost a year now. My current character is getting married, so is leaving the adventuring troupe. My new character is going to be somewhat different. I've decided to make an AoO build centered around a changeling warshaper with a spiked chain. I took feats such as Stand Still, Sidestep Charge, and Improved Trip. Stats are amazing (We use a very high-powered set-up) The DM is also using a variant Feat/Ability score advancement. Every third and fourth level can be either a feat OR an ability score point. I aim at being a 4th level fighter, 4th level warshaper, 2nd level [Exotic Weapon Master] or something else. All sources are allowed, except Faerun stuff, or other campaign setting material (other than Eberron, naturally.) Any advice? EDIT: I also have Aberration Blood and Inhuman Reach, giving me a reach from 5ft to 20ft.
Person_Man 08-29-06, 05:41 PM	Abberation Blood and Inhuman Reach, from Lords of Madness: Adds +5 reach. Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall), from Heroes of Horror: Adds +5 reach. Extended reach (requires tentacle or similar non-rigid attack form, which is accomplished from the description of Inhuman reach), from Savage Species: Adds +5 reach. 4th level Warshaper just gets you Fast Healing. This will have minimal impact in combat. And while its nice that you won't need him after combat, at 8th level there shouldn't be any problem with your cleric healing you after every encounter. Consider Warshaper 3. Instead of Fighter, consider Psy War or Knight. In addition to a couple bonus feats, a Psy War will get you Expansion. Increased Size = Increased Reach. It also gives you access to various powers that will buff your attacks. Knight will net you Bulwark of Defense, Test of Mettle, and Vigilant Defender, all phenominal abilities to have with a high reach AoO maker. One level of Monk with the Decisive Strike class feature from PHBII is also very useful. One level of Exotic Weapon Master will let you take AoO on people with cover. Remember, reach weapons act like ranged weapons for determining cover, so if a friend or enemy is in the way of the person you're trying to attack, they get +4 to AC and you can't take AoO on them. Also, unless you want to be an Exotic Weapon Master, you don't need to waste a feat on spiked chain. Improved unarmed attack from monk or just simple armor spikes or spiked gauntlets let's you threaten everyone. With Inhuman Reach, Deformity Tall, Extended Reach, Expansion, plus Warshaper reach, and any reach weapon, your total reach will be 50 feet (60 feet when you get enough levels to use the improved version of Expansion). This should be enough to hit pretty much anyone, anywhere.
Zendu 08-29-06, 06:00 PM	I disagree, if your allready 3 into warshaper, why not get the free healing. This could mean your cleric saves healing for during combat, isntead of after. Dont forget about that sandsnare feat from sandstorm.
heax 08-29-06, 06:01 PM	Improved unarmed attack from monk or just simple armor spikes or spiked gauntlets let's you threaten everyone. I don't need either. With Warshaper I can form natural weapons as a move action- with no cap on how many, within reason. Two claws, a bite, a sting, two tentacles, a gore, and a tail slam. That mixed with "unarmed attacks" (knees, elbows, etc..) I can make a series of attacks. Good advice about the monk and the decisive strike- I think I'll do that. Two levels of monk, three of Knight for the Bulwark of Defense (way cool), three levels of Warshaper, and one or two of Citadel Elite, with the possible second being Exotic Weapon Master. That requires two feats though... Without being able to hit characters with cover, why not Starspawn for temporary flight? That wouldn't be so bad, would it?
heax 08-29-06, 06:01 PM	Actually... we have no cleric. I think we have an artificer/windwright captain. He provides potions like no tomorrow, but that's it.
heax 08-29-06, 06:05 PM	Dont forget about that sandsnare feat from sandstorm. How does that help?
Taeldrin Laesrash 08-29-06, 07:56 PM	How high level are you? If you're at least 12th level, you should hopefully be able to qualify for Robilar's Gambit, which would save you a lot of trouble. If not, take the Defensive Throw feat (And its prerequisites) and Karmic Strike if you have the feats to spare. From there, Improved and Greater Combat Reflexes help (Both are from Dragon #341).
Zendu 08-29-06, 08:06 PM	How does that help? How doesn't it? Limits what his enemies can do and hes allready a trip fiend. Hes drowning in feats anyway.
heax 08-29-06, 10:56 PM	How high level are you? Level 10. Is there any really, really good feat for an AoO master? I have a whole bunch of goodness already, but I have a single feat slot left.
heax 08-29-06, 10:57 PM	How doesn't it? Limits what his enemies can do and hes allready a trip fiend. Hes drowning in feats anyway. What I meant was 'what does it do'? I have access to the book itself within my gaming group, but I don't have it with me here.
Surreal 08-30-06, 01:53 AM	What I meant was 'what does it do'? I have access to the book itself within my gaming group, but I don't have it with me here. If you trip your foe within a sandy area, it takes them a full round action to get back up. Really nice if you can get an effect in there that limits them to a standard/move action a round, so then it takes them two rounds to get up. A rogue with Staggering Strike works quite well.
FriendlyFrog 08-30-06, 04:35 AM	If you really want to get cheesy (and your DM is crazy), take the feat Knock-down (it's in the Divine section of SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html), I think it's originally from Miniatures handbook). With every AoO you attack the opponent, get a free trip attempt if you do 10 or more damage, and get a free attack if you manage to trip your opponent. Great when used in conjunction with Karmic strike. And just as was mentioned, Psychic warrior is great for Expansion. Huge size gives a lot of natural reach!
Bonzai 08-30-06, 10:45 AM	I have been working on an AoO fighter as well. I was using a long spear instead. The Combo I was looking for was Combat Reflexes + Thicket of blades (ToB stance) + Defensive sweep. Thicket of blades makes anyone moving in your threatened area (includung 5 ft step) draw an attack of opportunity. Defensive sweep makes anyone who doesn't move in the area you threaten, draw an attack of opportunity. So basically, if it's in your threatened area, you get an AoO. So compliment it, I was going to get cleave and whirlwind attacks. I have never seen the Knock Down feat.....But oh hell yeah! Especially if the OP'ers using a spiked chain!
Leugren 08-30-06, 10:59 AM	I have been working on an AoO fighter as well. I was using a long spear instead. The Combo I was looking for was Combat Reflexes + Thicket of blades (ToB stance) + Defensive sweep. Thicket of blades makes anyone moving in your threatened area (includung 5 ft step) draw an attack of opportunity. Defensive sweep makes anyone who doesn't move in the area you threaten, draw an attack of opportunity. So basically, if it's in your threatened area, you get an AoO. So compliment it, I was going to get cleave and whirlwind attacks. I have never seen the Knock Down feat.....But oh hell yeah! Especially if the OP'ers using a spiked chain! Hate to throw a wrench into your plans but Defensive Sweep only affects opponents that are adjacent to you -- as in occupying a 5-foot square that touches one of the 5-foot squares that you occupy. Still a nice feat, but doesn't synergize nearly as well as you think for mega-reach AoO specialists. Thicket of Blades on the other hand is totally awesome, especially when combined with mega-reach and the Stand Still feat from the Expanded Psionic Handbook. Anyone who enters your threatened area becomes stuck like a fly; unable to get any closer, but also unable to escape. From experience, the Reflex saves for the Stand Still feat are quite difficult for anyone to make, especially if you're averaging more than 20 points of damage per hit. The only opponents that can get close to you are dedicated tumblers and creatures with the same reach as you. For these exceptions, I rely on Robilar's Gambit to ensure that I hit them harder and more often than they hit me. EDIT: The new Evasive Reflexes feat from Tome of Battle is also a nice addition to any AoO specialist's repertoire. Combined with Robilar's Gambit, it can be used to ensure that noone gets a full attack against you again!
Dark1ord 08-30-06, 11:16 AM	If you really want to get cheesy (and your DM is crazy), take the feat Knock-down (it's in the Divine section of SRD (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html), I think it's originally from Miniatures handbook).hmm, isn't it from Deities & Demigods - and Sword & Fist? meaning, isn't it 3.0?
FriendlyFrog 08-30-06, 11:25 AM	hmm, isn't it from Deities & Demigods - and Sword & Fist? meaning, isn't it 3.0? It's most likely in Deities and Demigods (being in the Divine section of SRD), but it is in another book too. Sword and Fist might be it, but I can't check it out at the moment. It still is in the official 3.5 SRD, though.
kilroo 08-30-06, 12:24 PM	Edit: Never mind. I was using too many feats. Or more accurately had forgotten Combat Reflexes.
kilroo 08-30-06, 12:27 PM	10th level, huh? I don't suppose one of the Martial Adept classes with access to Devoted Spirit grants a new stance at level 4? (I think Thicket of Blades is Devoted Spirit 3, right?) If so you could do: Knight 3/Martial Adept 2/Warshaper 3/Martial Adept +2 Aberration Blood, Inhuman Reach, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and either one more feat or one stat increase I guess. If more tactically oriented feats are necessary you could give up the Inhuman Reach chain. You threaten an impressive radius with Bulwark of Defense and Thicket of Blades. You can pick up Warshaper 4 for fast healing next level. You've also got Test of Mettle and whatever other Martial Adept tricks you've picked up. Your weaknesses compared to other possibilities are (1) because you're not using an exotic weapon you do have to concern yourself with soft cover and (2) unless Thicket of Blades is even more powerful than I think it is you don't yet have a strong defense against spring attackers with large amounts of movement and high tumble checks. Disclaimer: I do not have Tome of Battle yet so if this is complete bunk it is due to ignorance, not stupididity.:D
Leugren 08-30-06, 12:38 PM	Crusader grants access to Devoted Spirit and you need an initiator level of 5 in order to qualify for a 3rd-level stance. Your non-Crusader levels grant you 1 initiator level for every two levels, so you can qualify for Thicket of Blades with any the following level splits: - Crusader 5 - Crusader 4 / non-Crusader 2 - Crusader 3 / non-Crusader 4 - Crusader 2 / non-Crusader 6 - Crusader 1 / non-Crusader 8 - non-Crusader 10 Note that, if possible, you'll want to pick up a Crusader level that grants a new stance as your last level. Otherwise, you'll need to use the Martial Stance feat to pick up Thicket of Blades, and in the case involving 0 Crusader levels, you'll also need the Martial Study feat to meet the prereqs for Martial Stance.
Apocabramanic 08-30-06, 12:44 PM	Level 10. Is there any really, really good feat for an AoO master? I have a whole bunch of goodness already, but I have a single feat slot left. Yeah, there actually is. Deft Opportunist! +4 on attack rolls for every AoO you make!
Wrathamon 08-30-06, 03:02 PM	is there a way to do this with out being a changeling?
heax 08-30-06, 05:52 PM	I have been working on an AoO fighter as well. I was using a long spear instead. The Combo I was looking for was Combat Reflexes + Thicket of blades (ToB stance) + Defensive sweep. I am only at level 10. What level does Thicket of Blades require? Defensive sweep needs a few more levels than I have, anyhow, but I am aiming for it.
heax 08-30-06, 05:57 PM	is there a way to do this with out being a changeling? There is, but the character himself was made before the mechanics. His place in the story has already been caste to an extent. Besides, Changeling is the easiest way into Warshaper, which he gains the benefits from all the time. (+4 str, +4 con, immune to crits and stunning, extra reach, and any number of natural weapons I want.) I don't have the Tome of Battle yet either, and am unsure how the whole stance thing helps- however, with any luck, a fellow gamer has picked up a copy so I may use Thicket of Blades.
Leugren 08-30-06, 07:56 PM	I am only at level 10. What level does Thicket of Blades require? Defensive sweep needs a few more levels than I have, anyhow, but I am aiming for it. See my previous posts!
kilroo 08-30-06, 08:00 PM	Crusader grants access to Devoted Spirit and you need an initiator level of 5 in order to qualify for a 3rd-level stance. Your non-Crusader levels grant you 1 initiator level for every two levels, so you can qualify for Thicket of Blades with any the following level splits: - Crusader 5 - Crusader 4 / non-Crusader 2 - Crusader 3 / non-Crusader 4 - Crusader 2 / non-Crusader 6 - Crusader 1 / non-Crusader 8 - non-Crusader 10 Note that, if possible, you'll want to pick up a Crusader level that grants a new stance as your last level. Otherwise, you'll need to use the Martial Stance feat to pick up Thicket of Blades, and in the case involving 0 Crusader levels, you'll also need the Martial Study feat to meet the prereqs for Martial Stance. I have no idea why I was thinking you needed Initiator Level 7. At any rate, the levels at which a Crusader gains stances are still, as you mention, important.
heax 08-31-06, 05:09 PM	Crusader grants access to Devoted Spirit and you need an initiator level of 5 in order to qualify for a 3rd-level stance. Your non-Crusader levels grant you 1 initiator level for every two levels, so you can qualify for Thicket of Blades with any the following level splits: - Crusader 5 - Crusader 4 / non-Crusader 2 - Crusader 3 / non-Crusader 4 - Crusader 2 / non-Crusader 6 - Crusader 1 / non-Crusader 8 - non-Crusader 10 Note that, if possible, you'll want to pick up a Crusader level that grants a new stance as your last level. Otherwise, you'll need to use the Martial Stance feat to pick up Thicket of Blades, and in the case involving 0 Crusader levels, you'll also need the Martial Study feat to meet the prereqs for Martial Stance. I would totally do that, with my final level being a Crusader level, however I do not have the ToB. I only know of one friend who has already bought it, but he's not in this particular gaming group. But I've come to a decision. Thicket of Blades combined with Stand Still is amazing, and with a reach of 20ft-25ft or so this Warshaper will be the envy of the Citadel. I am running into a problem with this build. I would like three levels of knight, but that conflicts with the needing to take the crusader level towards the end. Does Crusader have a full BAB? Crusader Knight Knight Crusader Warshaper Warshaper Warshaper Knight Crusader Citadel Elite (for story purposes) I get a total of 8 feats. From them I think I'll take the required Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Aberrant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Extended Reach, plus three others, or ability score increases. WIth the knight levels I gain Bulwark of Defense, and the warshaper levels net me higher physical stats and immunity to criticals. With Steadfast Boots I would be nearly undefeatable. What weapon should I use?
kilroo 08-31-06, 10:08 PM	I'd go with a guisarme unless you intend to buy an exotic weapon and go EWM later. Or if you are gonna do that but don't want to spend the feat yet. It's the easiest martial reach weapon that you can trip with to come by, as far as I know. Unless your DM houserules Halberds as reach weapons, in which case take the halberd. One of my DM's does, I know some others do, but some don't, so check.