Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Broken One 01-13-06, 05:59 AM	Hi there, we will start our new campaign soon, this time we'll play a neutral/evil group of characters. My should be an Cleric/Master Of Shrouds and we will start at 3rd level. I hope to focus on the summoning aspect and concentrate on my incorporal undead as soon as I can. I'm this far until now: Race: human Class: Cleric 3 Abilities: STR: 12 DEX: 11 CON: 14 INT: 14 WIS: 17 CHA: 18 Skills: Knowledge Religion: max others not so important at the moment. Feats: Ghost Scarred (Prequisite for MoS instead of Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augument Summoning) About the other 2 I'm not really sure, I was thinking about the following in no particular order, any suggestions heavily welcome: Necromantic Presence Necromantic Might (to push the summons, mainly even those incorporal ones) Divine Spell Power (seems great to make the summons last an addional 4 rounds, replace spell pentration and to push some of the few good offensive spells like blasphme) Profane Lifeleech (seems evil and flavorfull but is it really worth it? it seems that this is strong in early levels and later on you'll never ever use it again.) Equipment (2700 gp): wand of cure light wounds (750 gp) more suggestions other than standard equipment like armor and arms, holy symbol, healers bag and stuff like this? Request: Any suggestions about what I could take, change or should do instead of this, big thanks in advance. Greets, Marco
Broken One 01-13-06, 10:37 AM	Well I'll try bumping once, tia.
PhaedrusXY 01-13-06, 10:47 AM	If you multiclass into something else with a good Will save, you can enter Master of Shrouds after only 3 levels of base classes. Monk and Hexblade are good choices. Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7194232&postcount=12) is a 10th level MoS character I made for an arena battle (he won I think). You also might check out the True Necro link in my sig for feat and equipment ideas.
Broken One 01-13-06, 09:30 PM	Thanks for the good suggestions. I'll take a look at this stuff. The real question for me is what feats to take, and if those i mentioned are worth it, or if I only should try to go for the often mentioned Divine Metamagic and Persitent Spell? Would Corpse Crafter work with those Summon Spells? It only mentions "raise" or "create" in the feat description? My DM changed the prequisite for the Master of Shrouds so that you can get it earliest at the 6th level so the monk/hexblade level would be not really of help I think, or would it be even better to take one and lose another caster level progression? Greets, Marco
SoulGamit 01-13-06, 10:07 PM	Then just be a cleric + PrCs. Corpsecrafter feats don't work on summon undead. I guess augument summoning would be OK... Really, with that houserul, master of shrouds isn't that interesting. You may want to consider Palemaster, or just taking the undead leadership feat and taking an incorporeal cohort.
PhaedrusXY 01-13-06, 10:24 PM	Thanks for the good suggestions. I'll take a look at this stuff. The real question for me is what feats to take, and if those i mentioned are worth it, or if I only should try to go for the often mentioned Divine Metamagic and Persitent Spell? Would Corpse Crafter work with those Summon Spells? It only mentions "raise" or "create" in the feat description? My DM changed the prequisite for the Master of Shrouds so that you can get it earliest at the 6th level so the monk/hexblade level would be not really of help I think, or would it be even better to take one and lose another caster level progression? Greets, MarcoYour DM is a smart man. ;) No, don't mess with the non-cleric level before you enter a PrC, then. I think MoS is still a decent PrC, but not nearly as powerful as it is if you can get into it 3 levels earlier. The prereqs for MoS are pretty stupid (since Augment Summoning doesn't affect incorporeal undead at all...), so it's good to hear your DM changed those. Where is Ghost Scarred from, and what in general does it do? I'd ask your DM about whether the Corpsecrafter feat chain affects summoned undead. Personally, I think it should, as they are basically "created" by the spell, in a certain sense. After all, they wink out of existence inside an antimagic field. Divine Metamagic goes well with MoS because of the Extra Rebuking feature of the class I think. I think the Summoning Domain doubles the duration of Summon spells you cast, and might apply to your MoS abilities also. I'd look into getting it. Similiarly, the Thamaturgist doubles the length of Summon spells, and is normally a good choice to follow up MoS because of the prereq overlap (not for you though...).
Broken One 01-14-06, 10:21 PM	Your DM is a smart man. ;) No, don't mess with the non-cleric level before you enter a PrC, then. I think MoS is still a decent PrC, but not nearly as powerful as it is if you can get into it 3 levels earlier. The prereqs for MoS are pretty stupid (since Augment Summoning doesn't affect incorporeal undead at all...), so it's good to hear your DM changed those. Where is Ghost Scarred from, and what in general does it do? He is, and it was also my advice to leave it at level 6th because we normally try to avoid broken things. I would like the character to be well formed and above good, but did'nt really want to use the überbroken tricks. Yeah the change of the feat was also my suggestion, we instead used the mentioned one from Libris Mortis, its a feat that has some minor bonuses in combat incorporal undead things, and was to be more a feat to burn and that fits the flavor, if you have some better suggestion perhaps I can still change this one. I'd ask your DM about whether the Corpsecrafter feat chain affects summoned undead. Personally, I think it should, as they are basically "created" by the spell, in a certain sense. After all, they wink out of existence inside an antimagic field. I think because I'm in for the rule and balancing factor in our campaign I wouldn't allow it by myself through reading the wording, but I asked because perhaps I could be wronged because english is, obviously, not my native language. Divine Metamagic goes well with MoS because of the Extra Rebuking feature of the class I think. I think the Summoning Domain doubles the duration of Summon spells you cast, and might apply to your MoS abilities also. I'd look into getting it. Similiarly, the Thamaturgist doubles the length of Summon spells, and is normally a good choice to follow up MoS because of the prereq overlap (not for you though...). At the moment I'm really thinking of getting a combination of the divine feats to improve the general time of spells and especially the summons. Divine Metamagic seems kinda feat costly so that I wouldn't get Necromantic Presence and Necromantic Might (both from Libris Mortis) but I'm not really sure if they are really worth it. So with Divine Metamagic my best options would be to take some things that let me get those feats fast and get as many turn attemptes as possible, is their anyway to do it? Other option seems to take Necromantic Might and Presence and later starting from 6th level on Divine Spell Power, Extend Spell and Divine Metamagic (Extend Spell) to make the Summons as long as possible and some of the more usefull spells, I'm not sure if this will be a powerfull option or if I would get the feats to late, so perhaps I should drop Necromantic Might and Presence entirely!? It would be really great to get more feat advices for my build, perhaps also intresting domains that would be give feat benefits or other things that would help those summons and divine feat stuff!? Greets and big thanks, Marco
PhaedrusXY 01-15-06, 12:55 AM	I wouldn't bother with Divine Metamagic on Extend Spell. If you're going to the trouble of taking Divine Metamagic, put it on something more powerful, like Persistant, Maximize, or Quicken (probably my favorite). Get some Metamagic Rods of Extend Spell, instead. They are cheap, as Metamagic rods go.
Walking Dream 01-15-06, 01:31 AM	It's a bit feat intensive but you can do a nasty bit of damage at low levels: Divine Metamagic (Sculpt Spell -> Costs 1 Turn/Rebuke charge) Divine Metamagic (Explosive Spell -> Costs 2 Turn/Rebuke charges) Sun Domain (For Domain spell "Burning Hands", also on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list) Once per day you can use a level 1 domain spell and 3 turn/rebuke attemps to make a Burning Hands sculpted to a 120 ft line, which triggers (If they fail their reflex save) Explosive spell's efect of pushing them to the end of that line, dealing 1d6 damage per 10 feet they move from it. If you can get under before casting it you can also force them to take fall damage :cool: Just make sure it hits :P
Broken One 01-15-06, 04:25 PM	I wouldn't bother with Divine Metamagic on Extend Spell. If you're going to the trouble of taking Divine Metamagic, put it on something more powerful, like Persistant, Maximize, or Quicken (probably my favorite). Get some Metamagic Rods of Extend Spell, instead. They are cheap, as Metamagic rods go. It's so hard to choose the real question than is still which feat route to choose, what would you or others do, perhaps some of your coices would help me to make mine. Thanks again for your answer. It's a bit feat intensive but you can do a nasty bit of damage at low levels: Divine Metamagic (Sculpt Spell -> Costs 1 Turn/Rebuke charge) Divine Metamagic (Explosive Spell -> Costs 2 Turn/Rebuke charges) Sun Domain (For Domain spell "Burning Hands", also on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list) Once per day you can use a level 1 domain spell and 3 turn/rebuke attemps to make a Burning Hands sculpted to a 120 ft line, which triggers (If they fail their reflex save) Explosive spell's efect of pushing them to the end of that line, dealing 1d6 damage per 10 feet they move from it. If you can get under before casting it you can also force them to take fall damage Just make sure it hits I have to say that this idea is a very nice one, but it really is not to flavorfull for a necromancer. I would prefer to do real kewl stuff with some necromany spells and especially my summons so if you have a few suggestions how to do this, that would be really great. Greets and thanks again for the all yours help, Marco
Daobobo 01-15-06, 05:54 PM	Domains: For 3.5 Luck/Summoner looks really solid. Summoner is truly an obvious choice at +2 CL, and luck is... well, who doesn't want to be lucky? Feats: Look at Quicken Manifest, for undead in "that round you guys got jumped", and Destructive Ret., which, if I remeber right, makes tightly clustered undead heal each other on their demise, and mess up enemy Brawlers in a negitive energy blast. This second feat varies in usefulness depending on the intellegence of your foes, but in a tightly crowded dungeon, it's like fireball. Persistant Spell is almost a MUST, being as that your undead will not be chilling around all day otherwise. Reach spell can be used to help those undead out when they're in combat, not to mention to hit the enemy with inflict spells while being safely away. Items: Scroll of (Mass) Haste-> Because undead are SO slow before they become incorperal. Wand of "Inflict" empowered/reaching wounds-> because your undead need healing too, not to mention it's good for the beatdown. Buddies and pals: Also look at the aid another ability... numerous undead swarms could serve other purpouses besides being thrown at the enemy and fighting until death (i.e. nanobots). I'd look into leadership (of an undead creature/companion)- For example, the ghost of a former low-lvl character you played would be quite nifty. Or, perhaps a Druid/Bligher with an undead bent... undead animal companions?
Broken One 01-15-06, 07:48 PM	Domains: For 3.5 Luck/Summoner looks really solid. Summoner is truly an obvious choice at +2 CL, and luck is... well, who doesn't want to be lucky? I looked up the domains, Summoner is quiete a good choice, I'll conider it, but I could'nt find Luck, in which book is it, is there any list for Domains, like the one for feats and spells at the wizards page? Other domains I found intresting where, death, undeath, pestilence are there any domains that fits corruption as a theme or more domains that fits diseases? Feats: Look at Quicken Manifest, for undead in "that round you guys got jumped", and Destructive Ret., which, if I remeber right, makes tightly clustered undead heal each other on their demise, and mess up enemy Brawlers in a negitive energy blast. This second feat varies in usefulness depending on the intellegence of your foes, but in a tightly crowded dungeon, it's like fireball. Persistant Spell is almost a MUST, being as that your undead will not be chilling around all day otherwise. Reach spell can be used to help those undead out when they're in combat, not to mention to hit the enemy with inflict spells while being safely away. How should I use Quicken Manifest, sounds good do you mean I should give it to the undead I create or summon? Destruction Retribution is quite kewl, but I would need Corpsecrafter and we would'nt allow the feats to work for summoned undeads, because they read "... you raise or create ..." Reach Spell sounds really intresting, but worth to take it as feat or better get it on a metamagic rod like mentioned above for extend spell? Items: Scroll of (Mass) Haste-> Because undead are SO slow before they become incorperal. Wand of "Inflict" empowered/reaching wounds-> because your undead need healing too, not to mention it's good for the beatdown. Put those on my list of items to get, really cool suggestions big thanks. Buddies and pals: Also look at the aid another ability... numerous undead swarms could serve other purpouses besides being thrown at the enemy and fighting until death (i.e. nanobots). I'd look into leadership (of an undead creature/companion)- For example, the ghost of a former low-lvl character you played would be quite nifty. Or, perhaps a Druid/Bligher with an undead bent... undead animal companions? I thought about taking the Undead Leadership feat, the main problem with the feats are, that I at the moment have many feat options and suggestions but I have to make a feat progression that is worth it. Thanks again for the ideas, those are noted Perhaps you people can help my to make a final feat progression at the moment I have to take Ghost Scarred (for Prestige Class, read above) and all other feats are yet open and left, suggestions and ideas where until now: Divine Spell Power Extend Spell Persistent Spell Reach Spell Divine Metamagic (Extend Spell) Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) Necromantic Might Necromantic Presence Profance Lifeleech (Any more suggestions, I really want to focus on the Necromantic Spells and my Summons and it should have some flavor with a necromancer) One question as I reread my thread someone mentioned earlier the Summoning domain, I found the Summoner domain in the Complete Divine book, that ads +2 to casterlevel and therefor to the duration of my summon spells. But Phaedrus mentioned the other domain to double the duration, is what he mentioned another domain or an older version? Again big thanks for your help & Greets, Marco
Faithless the Wonder Boy 01-15-06, 07:58 PM	I wouldn't ever take Divine Metamagic (Extend Spell), because generally the 2 turn attempts required to activate it can be better as a persistent or quickened spell, especially since the one level bump really isn't all that bad. But the real point of this post was to mention that the Luck domain is in the Player's Handbook (and the SRD for that matter). Spell list is mostly abjuration spells, and it allows you to reroll one roll each day. For necromancers, though, I prefer the Necromancy domain, for obvious reasons. It puts things like Ray of Enfeeblement and Enervation on your spell list, and lets you cast necromancy spells at +1 caster level. Both sounds like lots of good stuff, considering what you want to focus on...
Broken One 01-15-06, 08:44 PM	I wouldn't ever take Divine Metamagic (Extend Spell), because generally the 2 turn attempts required to activate it can be better as a persistent or quickened spell, especially since the one level bump really isn't all that bad. Yeah you are right about the Extend Spell stuff, I forgot that it takes 2 attempts just for on extended spell. I should really think of Quicken or Persistent. But the real point of this post was to mention that the Luck domain is in the Player's Handbook (and the SRD for that matter). Spell list is mostly abjuration spells, and it allows you to reroll one roll each day. Found it, looks quiet ok, but that wouldn't fit the flavor, at the moment I'm thinking about Pestilence and Undeath. For necromancers, though, I prefer the Necromancy domain, for obvious reasons. It puts things like Ray of Enfeeblement and Enervation on your spell list, and lets you cast necromancy spells at +1 caster level. Both sounds like lots of good stuff, considering what you want to focus on... This sounds really good, I did a quick skim threw a few books, and searched the board but couldn't find where it is from, and what it completly looks like, would be perhaps an better option instead of undeath, through the Extra Turning/Rebuking attempts are a nice bonus,or? Thanks again & Good Night, Marco
Faithless the Wonder Boy 01-15-06, 08:54 PM	Necromancy domain is in the Eberron campaign setting. Key spells on the list include things like (as I said) Ray of Enfeeblement, Command Undead, Enervation, and Energy Drain. That said, Undeath is quite good, too. I'd be more willing to go Necromancy/Undeath than Summoner, which is pretty good but not spectacular, now that it's +2 CL rather than a doubled duration... it's great at lower levels, peters down as you progress.
Daobobo 01-16-06, 12:59 AM	Items: If you can get a ranged metamagic rod, take it, by all means! However, since it's not part of the standard DMG, you might not be able to get it. (Your feat selection will be limited as a psudo-cleric, and therefore, it's benifital to you to get all the metamagic rods you can. There's really no reason NOT to carry one... except for silent/still, I'd rather have $$$.) Also, a ring of invisibility to undead could be nice when your undead start running around uncontrolled, like Ju-Ju zombies, ect. Domains: If you're playing 3.0, take Death. Heck- take 3.0 Madness from the Dieties and Demigods book...(I never was able to execute that idea...). But the 3.5 versions has some crippling drawback with it... (I think it only works on things without a Con score, or some such, and madness merely has some nifty spells on the list, it doesn't give bonus spells anymore.) -scratches head about quicken manifest- I don't have it in front of me, but CREATED undead tend to be weaker at higher levels, being as that even a colossal skeleton is very smashable to a big monster from the Monster Manual. Even with superior creation spells, even with a quicken, you would be useless at the early stages of a battle- when the winner is being decided. I would much rather, (if the ability does as it implies), rapidly SUMMON some sort of wraith or incorperal creature, which will be much more difficult for MM monsters to handle, and would demand that the BBEG would have more prep. Furthermore, I assumed that this would cost less than -quicken- in terms of spell level. Be careful about divine metamagic. You may need your turn attempts to keep a finger on some high level uncontrolled undead you have around you. After all, they just want warm brains!
Broken One 01-16-06, 02:09 AM	Necromancy domain is in the Eberron campaign setting. Key spells on the list include things like (as I said) Ray of Enfeeblement, Command Undead, Enervation, and Energy Drain. That said, Undeath is quite good, too. I'd be more willing to go Necromancy/Undeath than Summoner, which is pretty good but not spectacular, now that it's +2 CL rather than a doubled duration... it's great at lower levels, peters down as you progress. That's the reason I couldn't find it ;). Problem is that I couldn't use things from this setting so no command undead and ray of enfeeblement for me. Undeath really seems quiete good, and the spell list from the pestilence domain is quiet good to, the bonus is decent, at it would have much of flavor roleplay wise, at the moment I'm thinking to take those both. Items: If you can get a ranged metamagic rod, take it, by all means! However, since it's not part of the standard DMG, you might not be able to get it. (Your feat selection will be limited as a psudo-cleric, and therefore, it's benifital to you to get all the metamagic rods you can. There's really no reason NOT to carry one... except for silent/still, I'd rather have $$$.) Also, a ring of invisibility to undead could be nice when your undead start running around uncontrolled, like Ju-Ju zombies, ect. All noted done, big thanks I have to look up this whole metamagic rod thing again, seems that those are some really good items. Domains: If you're playing 3.0, take Death. Heck- take 3.0 Madness from the Dieties and Demigods book...(I never was able to execute that idea...). But the 3.5 versions has some crippling drawback with it... (I think it only works on things without a Con score, or some such, and madness merely has some nifty spells on the list, it doesn't give bonus spells anymore.) We play 3.5. For the domains see what I mentioned above please, at the moment I kind of like those two, perhaps if there is really something better out there, with some other nifty necromany spells on the list and a good ability I would take it, sadly no necromany domain for me, because of the eberron source. -scratches head about quicken manifest- I don't have it in front of me, but CREATED undead tend to be weaker at higher levels, being as that even a colossal skeleton is very smashable to a big monster from the Monster Manual. Even with superior creation spells, even with a quicken, you would be useless at the early stages of a battle- when the winner is being decided. I would much rather, (if the ability does as it implies), rapidly SUMMON some sort of wraith or incorperal creature, which will be much more difficult for MM monsters to handle, and would demand that the BBEG would have more prep. Furthermore, I assumed that this would cost less than -quicken- in terms of spell level. Be careful about divine metamagic. You may need your turn attempts to keep a finger on some high level uncontrolled undead you have around you. After all, they just want warm brains! Well this Quicken Manifest feat is a monstrous feat that lets incorporal creatures manifest from the etheral to the material plane once a round for a free action. Yeah thought about that, but with Nightsticks as item and Undead Domain i should have at least 3+CHA(4)+4+4 turn/rebuke attempts, makes 15 minimum without more CHA it should be perhaps enough for a few uses of divine metamagic. At the moment I'm still argueing with myself if Divine Spell Power could really be worth to take, so four caster level that I could get seems a nice replacement for Spell Penetration and would at quiet a bit power to some of the nastier necromany spells, and would enable me to make those summons last longer, well not so lang as with divine metamagic, but I want to take at least one divine feat to use those turn/rebuke attempts when not needed otherwise the whole day. Greets & thanks, Marco
Broken One 01-16-06, 06:15 PM	Kind of to bump it up once more, and because I found some new feats. The Summon Ability of the Master of Shrouds are Spell-Like Abilities, I saw some Feats that could improve those, have anyone of you experience if that perhaps would make this class feature even stronger? I'm still reading over them, but perhaps you have some advice about this and my post above. Greets & Thanks in advance, Marco
Tweedledope 01-16-06, 08:17 PM	Has anyone thought to look how well the Dread Necromancer core class could work as a prerequisite for this PrC? It's slowly becoming my new favorite (behind the Warlock and the Druid) thanks to a rather exquisite spellcasting list (and the Warmageness). I really love it. -=TD=-
asteroidjawa 01-17-06, 10:30 AM	For feats, I would take Zen Archery(use wisdom instead of Dex for ranged attacks) and a level of Hierophant to get Divine Reach as a special ability. With that you can pretty much ignore any need for Strength and Dexterity. That combined with Undead Leadership and your Cohort/summons/animates should keep you pretty safe away from the melee and still able to throw around spells. Tomb-Tainted Soul could be helful since you could then heal yourself with Inflict spells. Or just find some other way to reverse how cure and inflict spells affect you. Divine Metamagic(Persistant Spell) is also great since you can get 2 spells up if you take the Undeath domain and have an 18 Charisma. Later on when you can cast 8th level spells maybe take the Mother Cyst feat and get a persistant Necrotic Empowerment. I think that MoS would be near perfect if the Prerequisite Feats actually helped the class abilities in any way, but at least you can get them out of the way at first level as a human. Maybe you can get Necromantic Presence and Might to apply instead.
morgosdarkknight 01-17-06, 11:05 AM	Did I miss something or did anyone else catch that Ghost Scarred from LM requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (religion) to qualify for the feat? That means that the earliest that you can qualify for MoS is 7th level as you get the next feat is 6th so that you qualify for Ghost Scarred. Unless, of course, your DM waived the requirements for Ghost Scarred. edit -- Sorry, saw your later post. I was under the impression that you already had the Ghost Scarred feat at 3rd level. But otherwise, the Divine Metamagic feat (I like Quicken as well) would be excellent since you get Extra Rebuke for free.
Broken One 01-17-06, 12:18 PM	Has anyone thought to look how well the Dread Necromancer core class could work as a prerequisite for this PrC? It's slowly becoming my new favorite (behind the Warlock and the Druid) thanks to a rather exquisite spellcasting list (and the Warmageness). I really love it. -=TD=- I didn't looked this up because I'm bound to Cleric, but the idea is intresting, perhaps for other or another character. The class seems to be real good, but would not be of help for me, but thanks for your help, suggestion could be a help for others. For feats, I would take Zen Archery(use wisdom instead of Dex for ranged attacks) and a level of Hierophant to get Divine Reach as a special ability. With that you can pretty much ignore any need for Strength and Dexterity. That combined with Undead Leadership and your Cohort/summons/animates should keep you pretty safe away from the melee and still able to throw around spells. This seems I very good idea, I looked it up, problem is that this would be a late game addition because Hierophant comes at 12th level. Only problem is that I'd loose an additional caster level progression, but this would be rather late. Tomb-Tainted Soul could be helful since you could then heal yourself with Inflict spells. Or just find some other way to reverse how cure and inflict spells affect you. I thought about this very early, but let it drop because it seems to work better for someone with the Corpsecrafter feats namely Destruction Retribution, so when your undead falls that heal themselves and you, too. Divine Metamagic(Persistant Spell) is also great since you can get 2 spells up if you take the Undeath domain and have an 18 Charisma. Later on when you can cast 8th level spells maybe take the Mother Cyst feat and get a persistant Necrotic Empowerment. Wouldn't I need 7 attempts for one persistent spell? The main problem I see with persistent spell is that I would have most of my rebuke attempts every day left and couldn't bolster my undead so I would remove the focus from the summons!? Necrotic Cyst Stuff could be really intresting, I would have to ask my DM if I could use them. I think that MoS would be near perfect if the Prerequisite Feats actually helped the class abilities in any way, but at least you can get them out of the way at first level as a human. Maybe you can get Necromantic Presence and Might to apply instead. Houseroule for me, like mentioned above, is just the feat Ghost Scarred (as feat to burn and flavor) for this prestige class rather than Augment Summoning. So I'm just losing one feat. Did I miss something or did anyone else catch that Ghost Scarred from LM requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (religion) to qualify for the feat? That means that the earliest that you can qualify for MoS is 7th level as you get the next feat is 6th so that you qualify for Ghost Scarred. Unless, of course, your DM waived the requirements for Ghost Scarred. edit -- Sorry, saw your later post. I was under the impression that you already had the Ghost Scarred feat at 3rd level. But otherwise, the Divine Metamagic feat (I like Quicken as well) would be excellent since you get Extra Rebuke for free. Yeah you are right about Ghost Scarred, I would have to take it at 6th level to get one level later in Master Of Shrouds. The feat was a reason in our campagin to fix the abuse getting MoS in earlier levels per multiclassing. Yeah perhaps I should go for Quicken or another good metamagic feat instead of this really cost intensive Persistent I feat that this makes the game broken enough so that my DM won t let me take it in first place, and I myself too, or wouldn't it? Greets & Thanks again, really great suggestions until now, you helped me to get some major ideas for the character, let your ideas and suggestions come if you have some more, especially feat wise. Marco
asteroidjawa 01-17-06, 01:19 PM	This seems I very good idea, I looked it up, problem is that this would be a late game addition because Hierophant comes at 12th level. Only problem is that I'd loose an additional caster level progression, but this would be rather late. Yeah, Heirophant's not getting caster levels is kinda lame, but since you only need one level you could still get up to having 9th level spells at 19. It lets you pretty much eliminate the need to touch other people, which was part of my character idea(along with becoming a necropolitan). Plus, I'm going for more of an archery slant. Wouldn't I need 7 attempts for one persistent spell? The main problem I see with persistent spell is that I would have most of my rebuke attempts every day left and couldn't bolster my undead so I would remove the focus from the summons!? Well you start off with 3+cha Mod attempts. If you have an 18, that is 7 right there. Then you take the Undeath domain which gives you Improved Turning as a bonus feat and the MoS class gives you another 4 for another 7 attempts. Buy a cloak of Charisma +6 and a night stick for another 7. So that is 3 persistant spells without to much trouble. And besides, you don't always have to use the rebukes for persistant spells. Necrotic Cyst Stuff could be really intresting, I would have to ask my DM if I could use them. Yeah, nothing like implanting a cyst in someone and blasting off thier limbs to get the respect you so rightly deserve. Just be careful when the DM starts putting them into your party. The hardest part about this is only getting to pick of few of the really fun feat combinations.
Broken One 01-17-06, 04:56 PM	Yeah, Heirophant's not getting caster levels is kinda lame, but since you only need one level you could still get up to having 9th level spells at 19. It lets you pretty much eliminate the need to touch other people, which was part of my character idea(along with becoming a necropolitan). Plus, I'm going for more of an archery slant. I noted it down and Necropolitan, too. Good suggestions for the later levels. Well you start off with 3+cha Mod attempts. If you have an 18, that is 7 right there. Then you take the Undeath domain which gives you Improved Turning as a bonus feat and the MoS class gives you another 4 for another 7 attempts. Buy a cloak of Charisma +6 and a night stick for another 7. So that is 3 persistant spells without to much trouble. And besides, you don't always have to use the rebukes for persistant spells. Hmm you are right, I must reconsider that, domain-wise at the moment I'm looking to take Pestilence and Undeath. Yeah, nothing like implanting a cyst in someone and blasting off thier limbs to get the respect you so rightly deserve. Just be careful when the DM starts putting them into your party. The hardest part about this is only getting to pick of few of the really fun feat combinations. I think this will be in, I reread this stuff, and it fits the flavor of the god or better demon in our campaign world that I follow this good that I think I'll use Mother Cyst, it seems good and nasty, any good hints and advices how to use it beneath the obvious ones? Yeah but this one feats really rocks, I like it, also it mean and a bit disgusting, but really kewl evil. EDIT: Another question, I again thought about the Divine Metamagic stuff, would I be able to use Divine Metmagic (Reach Spell) with Divine Metamagic (Chain Spell) does Reach and Chain Spell work together, ist Chain Spell in general a good idea for a cleric? If not should'nt I be able to do Reach Spell with Split Ray to for example effect two targets with a Split Reach Poison? Greets & Thanks once more, Marco
chubbell 01-17-06, 06:52 PM	Well, if you consider being a Necropolitan for your character then you might also want to consider taking the Spellstitched template in the Complete Arcane book to give you additional spell-like abilities.
Broken One 01-17-06, 08:07 PM	Well, if you consider being a Necropolitan for your character then you might also want to consider taking the Spellstitched template in the Complete Arcane book to give you additional spell-like abilities. I will take a look at it another, thanks. Another idea that came to me was using Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) with Divine Metamagic (Split Ray) to split those new reach spells, but is this possible and it seems rather cost intensive to spend four turn attempts to make an Split Reach Spell!? Greets, Marco
asteroidjawa 01-17-06, 09:37 PM	Another question, I again thought about the Divine Metamagic stuff, would I be able to use Divine Metmagic (Reach Spell) with Divine Metamagic (Chain Spell) does Reach and Chain Spell work together, ist Chain Spell in general a good idea for a cleric? If that works, then it is one sick Harm spell. Of course with all those metamagics it is a lot of feats, and you would probably have to start sacraficing some of the Undead minion bolstering feats. Here is another idea I just got looking through Libris Mortis. Use the Divine Persistant spell on Blade of Pain and Fear. Then with Divine Reach, it becomes a decent Ranged Touch attack weapon. That way I can save money on buying a uber-Bow and put it towards some nightsticks and allow me to wield a Rod of Undead Mastery. At least I think that would work. Also, Can you seriously have as many Nightsticks as you want? Cause that seems like it can get pretty rediculous with Divine Metamagic.
Broken One 01-18-06, 07:57 AM	If that works, then it is one sick Harm spell. Of course with all those metamagics it is a lot of feats, and you would probably have to start sacraficing some of the Undead minion bolstering feats. Yeah thought about this one too, but it would also be rather costly so it seems kinda balanced. Anyone can give an answer about this? Here is another idea I just got looking through Libris Mortis. Use the Divine Persistant spell on Blade of Pain and Fear. Then with Divine Reach, it becomes a decent Ranged Touch attack weapon. That way I can save money on buying a uber-Bow and put it towards some nightsticks and allow me to wield a Rod of Undead Mastery. At least I think that would work. The combo is nice but I don't know if its really good to build up this combo for just one spell, well Divine Persistent is always nice, I have to ask my DM about those Divine Metamagic stuff, especially the Persistent. Also, Can you seriously have as many Nightsticks as you want? Cause that seems like it can get pretty rediculous with Divine Metamagic. Good questions, from the item description it seems that you just have to own the Nightsticks to get the benefit, so could one own more the one? I'm not sure about this, can anyone clear that up? Greets, Marco
Broken One 01-19-06, 08:32 AM	Last bump and another idea ;) Wouldn't it be quiet good to take Divine Metamagic (Quicken) (notice I think Persistent well get to broken for our game world) and Quicken Turning, so that I for example, quickly bolster my summons, and still cast spells, or quickly cast a spell and still get to somebody for healing? Could one combine Quicken Turning and Divine Quicken? So I would be able to bolster, undead, use a quickend spell and still have a full-round action? Quicken tells that I still can only make one turn attempt per round but Divine Metamagic just tells that I have to spend one of my attempts not really roll another one? Greets, Marco