Advice for Gestalt Warlock/Rogue build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice for Gestalt Warlock/Rogue build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Invisible Gnome
10-22-05, 06:23 PM OK, for starters, I have read Tealgorthian's Warlock Handbook <http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=393586>, which is excellent! I also realize that this type of build may have already been discussed, if so, please feel free to point me in the direction of other posts.

I am building a 5th level Gestalt character who will serve as the "Face" of the group.

Race = Whisper Gnome

Alignment = Chaotic Good

Stats = Str 6, Dex 18 (+1 lev), Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16 (+2 Mag) 32 point buy

Level = Warlock 5/Rogue 5

Flaws = Non-combatant, Vulnerable

Feats = Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint

Magic Items = Mithral Chain Shirt +1, Cloak of Charisma +2, Slippers of Spider Climb, Heward's Handy Haversack.

Warlock Invocations = Baleful Utterance, Beguiling Charm, Eldritch Spear

Skills

Bluff = +17 (8 Ranks, 3 Stat, 6 Beguiling Charm)
Diplomacy = +19 (same as above, +2 synergy)
Intimidate = +15 (same as above, -4 Size)
Hide = +20 (8 Ranks, 4 Stat, 4 Size, 4 Race)
Move Silently = +16 (8 Ranks, 4 Stat, 4 Race)
UMD = +11 (8 Ranks, 3 Stat)
I will also Max out Tumble and Escape Artist

Melee Attack +0 (+3 BAB, +1 Size, -2 Stat, -2 Flaw)
Ranged Attack +8, or +9 (+3 BAB, +4 Stat, +1 Size, +1 within 30 ft)

I can Eldritch Blast for 3d6 and, with successful Feint, add +3d6 Sneak attack each round. My skills are not outrageous, but also not too bad.

I have considered dropping Eldritch Spear for See the Unseen, but as a Whisper gnome, I already have Darkvision. I have also given serious consideration to adding a level of Marshall for the double Charisma bonus on Charisma based checks.

My questions are: 1) Where do I go from here? 2) Are there any better races or templates I could use? 3) Suggestions for other feats? 4) Suggestions for PrCs? 5) Any other Skills I should definitely max out? 6) Any suggestions for other magic items?

Please feel free to make any suggestions.
PhoenixInferno
10-22-05, 06:32 PM You've got a nice unified theme going on. That's good. But 6 STR? C'mon - is that even enough to wear Mithril Chain and tote a HHH? Was it point buy? Its hardly ever worth it to purchase a 17 or 18 in a point buy setting, unless you have like...42 points.

I would skip Eldritch Spear and take either Flee the Scene or Fell Flight - that will let you skip the Slippers of Spider Climb. As for additional magic items, look for the Choker of Eloquence (don't remember where it is though).
Invisible Gnome
10-22-05, 06:54 PM Was it point buy? Its hardly ever worth it to purchase a 17 or 18 in a point buy setting, unless you have like...42 points.

32 point Buy. 18 Dex = 15 +2 (Race) + 1 (4th Level).

I agree... Not worth buying 17 or 18. I will re-think the 6 Str. Thanks.
Diplominator
10-23-05, 03:24 AM Ooh, ooh! Pick me! I know!

Craven (CoR) is a nasty, NASTY rogue feat. Basically, -2 penalty on saves v. fear effects, but you get your character level to sneak attack damage.
Invisible Gnome
10-23-05, 09:21 AM I have been kicking around the Extra Silence and Silencing Strike Feats for Whisper Gnomes out of the Races of Stone. They would make for an Eldritch blast that does 3d6 damage + 3d6 sneak damage + target is Silenced... all with NO SAVE ?!?!?! 6 times a day

Thoughts?
Balthanon
10-23-05, 09:32 AM I can Eldritch Blast for 3d6 and, with successful Feint, add +3d6 Sneak attack each round. My skills are not outrageous, but also not too bad.

Feinting can only be done in melee combat (see the Bluff skill) and your Eldritch Blast is a ranged attack unless you take Hideous Blow, so you can't add sneak attack using this method.
Invisible Gnome
10-23-05, 12:31 PM That makes a great arguement for dropping the Combat Expertise & Improved Feint Feats in lieu of Extra Silence and Silencing Strike, as I have no intention of getting into Melee Combat.

Perhaps I need to wait until 6th Level and take the Walk Unseen Invocation to make the Silencing Strike-Sneak Attack-Eldritch Blast work? or just buy a Ring of Invisibility.
Aramas
10-23-05, 02:47 PM I would replace Eldritch Spear with the Spider Climb invocation. It is much better than the slippers since you can use it all day instead of just for 10 minutes.

I would also buy my stats thusly:

Str 12
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14

Which would make your stats after racial adjustments, level bonus, and magic items:

Str 10
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14

It is really inefficient to buy stats above 14. And you really shouldn't buy a stat above 14 if you are going to take a racial penalty to it. Even though the Warlock is a caster with Cha as the primary stat, most of the invocations don't allow a saving throw anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Invisible Gnome 10-22-05, 06:23 PM	OK, for starters, I have read Tealgorthian's Warlock Handbook <http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=393586>, which is excellent! I also realize that this type of build may have already been discussed, if so, please feel free to point me in the direction of other posts. I am building a 5th level Gestalt character who will serve as the "Face" of the group. Race = Whisper Gnome Alignment = Chaotic Good Stats = Str 6, Dex 18 (+1 lev), Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 16 (+2 Mag) 32 point buy Level = Warlock 5/Rogue 5 Flaws = Non-combatant, Vulnerable Feats = Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint Magic Items = Mithral Chain Shirt +1, Cloak of Charisma +2, Slippers of Spider Climb, Heward's Handy Haversack. Warlock Invocations = Baleful Utterance, Beguiling Charm, Eldritch Spear Skills Bluff = +17 (8 Ranks, 3 Stat, 6 Beguiling Charm) Diplomacy = +19 (same as above, +2 synergy) Intimidate = +15 (same as above, -4 Size) Hide = +20 (8 Ranks, 4 Stat, 4 Size, 4 Race) Move Silently = +16 (8 Ranks, 4 Stat, 4 Race) UMD = +11 (8 Ranks, 3 Stat) I will also Max out Tumble and Escape Artist Melee Attack +0 (+3 BAB, +1 Size, -2 Stat, -2 Flaw) Ranged Attack +8, or +9 (+3 BAB, +4 Stat, +1 Size, +1 within 30 ft) I can Eldritch Blast for 3d6 and, with successful Feint, add +3d6 Sneak attack each round. My skills are not outrageous, but also not too bad. I have considered dropping Eldritch Spear for See the Unseen, but as a Whisper gnome, I already have Darkvision. I have also given serious consideration to adding a level of Marshall for the double Charisma bonus on Charisma based checks. My questions are: 1) Where do I go from here? 2) Are there any better races or templates I could use? 3) Suggestions for other feats? 4) Suggestions for PrCs? 5) Any other Skills I should definitely max out? 6) Any suggestions for other magic items? Please feel free to make any suggestions.
PhoenixInferno 10-22-05, 06:32 PM	You've got a nice unified theme going on. That's good. But 6 STR? C'mon - is that even enough to wear Mithril Chain and tote a HHH? Was it point buy? Its hardly ever worth it to purchase a 17 or 18 in a point buy setting, unless you have like...42 points. I would skip Eldritch Spear and take either Flee the Scene or Fell Flight - that will let you skip the Slippers of Spider Climb. As for additional magic items, look for the Choker of Eloquence (don't remember where it is though).
Invisible Gnome 10-22-05, 06:54 PM	Was it point buy? Its hardly ever worth it to purchase a 17 or 18 in a point buy setting, unless you have like...42 points. 32 point Buy. 18 Dex = 15 +2 (Race) + 1 (4th Level). I agree... Not worth buying 17 or 18. I will re-think the 6 Str. Thanks.
Diplominator 10-23-05, 03:24 AM	Ooh, ooh! Pick me! I know! Craven (CoR) is a nasty, NASTY rogue feat. Basically, -2 penalty on saves v. fear effects, but you get your character level to sneak attack damage.
Invisible Gnome 10-23-05, 09:21 AM	I have been kicking around the Extra Silence and Silencing Strike Feats for Whisper Gnomes out of the Races of Stone. They would make for an Eldritch blast that does 3d6 damage + 3d6 sneak damage + target is Silenced... all with NO SAVE ?!?!?! 6 times a day Thoughts?
Balthanon 10-23-05, 09:32 AM	I can Eldritch Blast for 3d6 and, with successful Feint, add +3d6 Sneak attack each round. My skills are not outrageous, but also not too bad. Feinting can only be done in melee combat (see the Bluff skill) and your Eldritch Blast is a ranged attack unless you take Hideous Blow, so you can't add sneak attack using this method.
Invisible Gnome 10-23-05, 12:31 PM	That makes a great arguement for dropping the Combat Expertise & Improved Feint Feats in lieu of Extra Silence and Silencing Strike, as I have no intention of getting into Melee Combat. Perhaps I need to wait until 6th Level and take the Walk Unseen Invocation to make the Silencing Strike-Sneak Attack-Eldritch Blast work? or just buy a Ring of Invisibility.
Aramas 10-23-05, 02:47 PM	I would replace Eldritch Spear with the Spider Climb invocation. It is much better than the slippers since you can use it all day instead of just for 10 minutes. I would also buy my stats thusly: Str 12 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 14 Which would make your stats after racial adjustments, level bonus, and magic items: Str 10 Dex 18 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 14 It is really inefficient to buy stats above 14. And you really shouldn't buy a stat above 14 if you are going to take a racial penalty to it. Even though the Warlock is a caster with Cha as the primary stat, most of the invocations don't allow a saving throw anyway.