Advice for Rogue? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice for Rogue? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wonton2006
03-15-06, 08:42 PM Got any advice for a level 5 Halfling Rogue with

12 STR
20 DEX
15 CON
13 INT
12 WIS
10 CHA

and who has so far gone more or less the two-weapon way (ditched the masterwork buckler, got mithril chain shirt instead, got two-weapon fighting)?

Skills: Gone the dex realted way (can you guess why? ;) )
Seeker of Truth
03-15-06, 09:04 PM If you don't mind all the 4+int skill levels look at Master Thrower(CWar), Invisible Blase(CWar) and Whisperknife(RoWild) PRcs.
Timlagor
03-15-06, 09:06 PM Presumably you have Weapon Finesse and TWF.

What books?
What do you see yourself contributing to the party?

I would have dipped Swashbuckler for my Finesse. and seriously consider Fighter for an extra Feat or two but both cost skills and slow down Rogue10 if you plan to go that far.

Have you maxed UMD?
Improved Initiative never does a Rogue any harm
Dodge-mobility-Elusive Target is a nice tree.
Combat Expertise seems to be in your future.

You might look at combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike and Double Hit (MH)
Timlagor
03-15-06, 09:08 PM I would avoid IB unless you take MT first becasue the IB Pre-Reqs are seriously messed up (or get your DM to replace them with sane ones) -they got messed up when the class was cut down form 10 levels.
Encard
03-15-06, 09:58 PM The Two-Weapon Fighting tree is obviously a must here. Craven (Lords of Madness) is a great feat for a Rogue, especially a TWF Rogue - it adds your level to your sneak attack damage, no cap, which is roughly an extra 60% damage per sneak attack. The more hits you get, the more that adds up to. The Tactical Soldier PrC (Miniatures Handbook) is a bit unconventional but very possibly worthwhile - it gives you the Flanker ability at 1st level, which lets you flank from any adjascent square, something very handy if that's how you expect to get sneak attacks. If you expect to use Hide to get sneak attacks (not something I'd recommend for a TWF rogue, I think), the Darkstalker feat is wonderful, as it forces creatures with Blindsense/Blindsight/Tremorsense to make Spot and Listen checks against you as normal.
Xykon
03-15-06, 10:30 PM Skills-wise would depend on a number of, shall we say "groups of skills" you would like to take on.

Absolute Essentials:
These are totally necessary - expect for cases where your play group is okay with a rogue who can't handle traps and locks.
1. Search - traps have DC of 25, 30, 35 and so on. You would want to maximize this so that you can hit the DC.

2. Disable Device - similar to #1. A means to disable them as you find them. DC is 20 onwards if i remember correctly.

3. Open Lock (optional) - This is actually optional. If you want to be able to open up locks quietly then max this up. Do note that DC is 20-40 so max it as you see fit. Alternatively you can get some adamantine bludgeoning weapon and smash lock instead without investing any points in this skill.

For sneaky characters:
1. Disguise (optional)
2. Hide
3. Move Silently

For Social characters:
1. Bluff
2. Diplomacy

With probably some of the skills below (depending on character type):
1. Disguise (optional)
2. Forgery (optional)
3. Gather Information (optional)
4. Knowledge (Local) (optional)
5. Sleight of hand (optional)
Note of the synergy between "Gather Information" and "Knowledge (Local)"

Do's:
1. Specialize in what you want. Pick those which you want to have as a rogue and stick with them. Use magic items to even further heighten up the skill.

2. Know your strengths and capitalize on them. A full rogue rushing into the heat of combat is gonna be fatal. For a full rogue it would be better if he stick with ranged weapons, whereas a fighter oriented rogue can go for melee combat.

Don'ts:
1. Try to be good at everything. Be aware that even a full rogue you can't max out every good skill. Not unless maybe if you have 18 INT. But i would rather put that 18 on DEX (or STR depending on build) instead.

This is one of the main pitfalls why some people just couldn't play a rogue.

Remember: If you try to be good at everything, you'll end up being good at nothing.
Thanatos42
03-16-06, 02:15 AM My advice is to focus on a class or prestige class that grants a way to deal sneak attacks. The stunning fist attack is a great way to do this, as is a wizard/monk (spells like blindness, hold person, etc).

Always having to rely on flanking with other characters can sometimes be problematic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wonton2006 03-15-06, 08:42 PM	Got any advice for a level 5 Halfling Rogue with 12 STR 20 DEX 15 CON 13 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA and who has so far gone more or less the two-weapon way (ditched the masterwork buckler, got mithril chain shirt instead, got two-weapon fighting)? Skills: Gone the dex realted way (can you guess why? ;) )
Seeker of Truth 03-15-06, 09:04 PM	If you don't mind all the 4+int skill levels look at Master Thrower(CWar), Invisible Blase(CWar) and Whisperknife(RoWild) PRcs.
Timlagor 03-15-06, 09:06 PM	Presumably you have Weapon Finesse and TWF. What books? What do you see yourself contributing to the party? I would have dipped Swashbuckler for my Finesse. and seriously consider Fighter for an extra Feat or two but both cost skills and slow down Rogue10 if you plan to go that far. Have you maxed UMD? Improved Initiative never does a Rogue any harm Dodge-mobility-Elusive Target is a nice tree. Combat Expertise seems to be in your future. You might look at combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike and Double Hit (MH)
Timlagor 03-15-06, 09:08 PM	I would avoid IB unless you take MT first becasue the IB Pre-Reqs are seriously messed up (or get your DM to replace them with sane ones) -they got messed up when the class was cut down form 10 levels.
Encard 03-15-06, 09:58 PM	The Two-Weapon Fighting tree is obviously a must here. Craven (Lords of Madness) is a great feat for a Rogue, especially a TWF Rogue - it adds your level to your sneak attack damage, no cap, which is roughly an extra 60% damage per sneak attack. The more hits you get, the more that adds up to. The Tactical Soldier PrC (Miniatures Handbook) is a bit unconventional but very possibly worthwhile - it gives you the Flanker ability at 1st level, which lets you flank from any adjascent square, something very handy if that's how you expect to get sneak attacks. If you expect to use Hide to get sneak attacks (not something I'd recommend for a TWF rogue, I think), the Darkstalker feat is wonderful, as it forces creatures with Blindsense/Blindsight/Tremorsense to make Spot and Listen checks against you as normal.
Xykon 03-15-06, 10:30 PM	Skills-wise would depend on a number of, shall we say "groups of skills" you would like to take on. Absolute Essentials: These are totally necessary - expect for cases where your play group is okay with a rogue who can't handle traps and locks. 1. Search - traps have DC of 25, 30, 35 and so on. You would want to maximize this so that you can hit the DC. 2. Disable Device - similar to #1. A means to disable them as you find them. DC is 20 onwards if i remember correctly. 3. Open Lock (optional) - This is actually optional. If you want to be able to open up locks quietly then max this up. Do note that DC is 20-40 so max it as you see fit. Alternatively you can get some adamantine bludgeoning weapon and smash lock instead without investing any points in this skill. For sneaky characters: 1. Disguise (optional) 2. Hide 3. Move Silently For Social characters: 1. Bluff 2. Diplomacy With probably some of the skills below (depending on character type): 1. Disguise (optional) 2. Forgery (optional) 3. Gather Information (optional) 4. Knowledge (Local) (optional) 5. Sleight of hand (optional) Note of the synergy between "Gather Information" and "Knowledge (Local)" Do's: 1. Specialize in what you want. Pick those which you want to have as a rogue and stick with them. Use magic items to even further heighten up the skill. 2. Know your strengths and capitalize on them. A full rogue rushing into the heat of combat is gonna be fatal. For a full rogue it would be better if he stick with ranged weapons, whereas a fighter oriented rogue can go for melee combat. Don'ts: 1. Try to be good at everything. Be aware that even a full rogue you can't max out every good skill. Not unless maybe if you have 18 INT. But i would rather put that 18 on DEX (or STR depending on build) instead. This is one of the main pitfalls why some people just couldn't play a rogue. Remember: If you try to be good at everything, you'll end up being good at nothing.
Thanatos42 03-16-06, 02:15 AM	My advice is to focus on a class or prestige class that grants a way to deal sneak attacks. The stunning fist attack is a great way to do this, as is a wizard/monk (spells like blindness, hold person, etc). Always having to rely on flanking with other characters can sometimes be problematic.