Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tr0gd0r 12-05-05, 10:34 AM	Hi All I have an Old (-3 physical , +2 mental attributes) Human Druid called Sklutch, currently level 4. I wasn't sure whether to go Shifter or Human, in the end I took Human for the extra feat. My companion is a Riding Dog called Deifer (4HD because of the bonuses to animal companion as I level). Things I need some help / advice on are : 1. do i keep the riding dog or move to a bear for a companion since my advanced dog seems to be harder than a bear since the bear is lvl - 3 and the dog progression is lvl. 2. should I have chosen shifter for my race instead of human ? still not sure I did the best thing in being Human 3. should I opt to get into master of many forms ASAP or stay pure druid. What I like about druid is the spell progression. Am I right in assuming MoMF from Complete Adventurer gives me a continuation of animal companion advancement (so I add my Druid levels to my MoMF levels) and also that I continue the Wildshape HD progression. I know MoMF loses out on spell progression and the high level druid summons look great. I was thinking of taking 3 levels of MoMF so that I could turn into large humanoids or large giants. Or should I just stay pure Druid and take Legendary Ape when I get enough HD ? Not sure if staying in till level 7 of MoMF to get the Ex abilities when I wildshape is worth it, can anyone convince me otherwise ? At the moment my feats are selected for a Druid 20 build in since I have Ashbound and Augment Summoning (and the prereq feat of spell focus conjuration of course). Have any of you played both a mid-high level Summoner Druid and also a Melee Druid/MoMF ? One last question is can I WildShape into advanced forms of creatures ? eg if it says a Wolf for example which has 2HD, can I instead wildshape into a 5HD version of the wolf so being a large wolf (assuming I had large wildshape ability). Or could I wildshape into a templated version of a creature, such a half-dragon wolf or vampire wolf etc ..... Or am I restricted into being the smallest version of any particular creature available with no templates ? The reason I ask is that some creatures have multiple versions specced out in detail eg Dragons from hatchlings through to great wyrms (if i was to get dragon wildshape from MoMF) and others just have level advancements listed eg wolf, and some don't have any level advancement or different versions listed. Another example is say i get to lvl 12 and wildshape into a Legendary Ape (assuming my memory is right and it is 12HD). When I level to 13, can i then get into a 13HD version of the ape, or would I be stuck in the 12HD version even if i was level 20 ? Sorry if I am lumping all my Druidic questions into one thread, mods, let me know if you need me to split them up. regards Raj
fnord 12-05-05, 10:59 AM	2. should I have chosen shifter for my race instead of human ? still not sure I did the best thing in being Human Humans make good druids. The bonus feat is nice. 3. should I opt to get into master of many forms ASAP or stay pure druid. I would stick with pure druid, especially because you like the spells and have feats for summoning. I was thinking of taking 3 levels of MoMF so that I could turn into large humanoids or large giants. Or should I just stay pure Druid and take Legendary Ape when I get enough HD ? MoMF is not really a class to dip. If you want to take it, take a lot of it.
Gerdreg 12-05-05, 11:09 AM	1. do i keep the riding dog or move to a bear for a companion since my advanced dog seems to be harder than a bear since the bear is lvl - 3 and the dog progression is lvl. The new animals that you gain access to as you level are usually more powerful (due to better total AC, Str, Con, ect.) than the improved via animal companion lower level ones. This is especially true at the highest level where the Dire Tiger seems to be the best.
Aramas 12-05-05, 11:15 AM	Am I right in assuming MoMF from Complete Adventurer gives me a continuation of animal companion advancement (so I add my Druid levels to my MoMF levels) and also that I continue the Wildshape HD progression. No. MoMF stacks with Druid levels to determine the duration and HD cap of wildshaping, but it does not advance your animal companion.
Tr0gd0r 12-05-05, 12:53 PM	Thanks for the answers so far everyone hmm I thought they errata'd MoMF so that you maintain your animal companion's advancement if not then i may just stick with pure druid how about answers to my wildshape questions ? anyone got any ideas ?
Arismir 12-05-05, 01:44 PM	One last question is can I WildShape into advanced forms of creatures ? eg if it says a Wolf for example which has 2HD, can I instead wildshape into a 5HD version of the wolf so being a large wolf (assuming I had large wildshape ability). No. You cannot change the size of the animal through advancement and any other advancement is pointless as all the bonuses from advancing creatures outside of Size change does not transfer when you wildshape. Or could I wildshape into a templated version of a creature, such a half-dragon wolf or vampire wolf etc ..... Or am I restricted into being the smallest version of any particular creature available with no templates ? The reason I ask is that some creatures have multiple versions specced out in detail eg Dragons from hatchlings through to great wyrms (if i was to get dragon wildshape from MoMF) and others just have level advancements listed eg wolf, and some don't have any level advancement or different versions listed. No. Alter Self specifically prevents this. Also, it is ridiculously broken. As far as Dragons. Treat each entry of the Dragon as a seperate creature and you can achieve that age group once you can Wildshape into that many HD. Another example is say i get to lvl 12 and wildshape into a Legendary Ape (assuming my memory is right and it is 12HD). When I level to 13, can i then get into a 13HD version of the ape, or would I be stuck in the 12HD version even if i was level 20 ? Legendary Ape is 13 HD. Advancing it's HD is once again pointless as you can't increase size and all the bonuses of advancing HD do not transfer when you Wildshape. ------------- I'd suggest reading through Wildshape, Polymorph and Alter Self again as it seems that you're a little unclear about all the rules.
Tr0gd0r 12-05-05, 03:37 PM	thanks for the reply can you point me to where it says i can't have advanced or templated creatures ? i've looked through the SRD and i can't seem to find it page in PHB or DMG would be fine ?
Arismir 12-05-05, 04:14 PM	can you point me to where it says i can't have advanced or templated creatures ? PHB 197 : Alter Self : Right most column : Third Paragraph from the top : Third Sentence "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn't change the creature type or subtype."
CravesLove 12-05-05, 04:46 PM	The new FAQ seems to have lifted the template restriction. To keep balance in the game, you should probably count the +LA as a +HD for determining which templated creatures you can change into.
Tr0gd0r 12-06-05, 04:17 AM	Hmmm sorry to be a pain but could you point me towards the new faq ? also is the faq officially approved by Wizards or is it just a "house rule" of the forums ?
JBW 12-06-05, 12:48 PM	Humans make good druids. The bonus feat is nice. Just remember that both the bonus feat and the extra skill points go away when you're not in Human form. As long as you're careful, this shouldn't be too much of a problem, but make sure that you don't lose a key feat or skill because of this annoying bit of 'clarification' from the Sage. Jay
Prominence 12-06-05, 12:52 PM	This forum ignores the faq in general, because it is mostly, if not completely, wrong.
fnord 12-06-05, 01:00 PM	Just remember that both the bonus feat and the extra skill points go away when you're not in Human form. As long as you're careful, this shouldn't be too much of a problem, but make sure that you don't lose a key feat or skill because of this annoying bit of 'clarification' from the Sage. THAT was in the same FAQ as the decision allowing templated creatures. Fine, I'll lose my bonus feat when I wildshape. I'll cry about that sometime after I finish laughing maniacally at the ability to wildshape into Paragon creatures. I'm choosing to ignore that FAQ.
Arismir 12-06-05, 01:44 PM	Alright here's the deal. The FAQ does not represent official rules. If you want you can choose to follow the FAQ, but it is not official rules and in most cases won't be sound reasoning for any debate on Templates or Advancement. Allowing Templates is extremely broken especially saying that there are no rules to how it would work. The only thing you could do is houserule a system which then makes Templates no longer official, but simply a houserule. This is fine if your DM allows it. But, bear in mind, it is extremely broken. Also, on the topic of Templates, almost no one on the CO boards will give any advice as many have signed a petition claiming to disregard the FAQ. Moving along to losing your human bonus feat and skill. Although this seems to be balancing it is actually also vastly overpowered. Sure, you might lose a bonus feat at level 1 and lose a skill. Take Scribe Scroll and Spellcraft for your druid. You can drop those without penalty. However, once you reach level 15, it becomes overpowered (for druids). With access to A Thousand Faces, you gain the ability to Alter Self into any human and thus gain a "floating" bonus feat and "floating" skills. That means that if you ever want a feat, you can just Alter Self and get it whenever you want. The Skills bonuses is even more broken IMO. How many times has a DM asked whether anyone knows how to speak some language or another? i.e. "Does anyone know how to speak Goblinoid?" The Druid alters self, and takes that language along with any others for her skill boost and replies with a smirk. "Now I do." In conclusion, to take away the Human Bonuses means you must allow them while Altering Self, and that makes it a much better trade-off. Many DMs rule against this, as it creates a more complicated game and is essentially broken. However, if you want to follow the FAQ, you can do that. Just remember that it is not official rules, but that you're simply incorporating house rules into your game. Oh and if your DM allows the FAQ ruling, thank him.
CravesLove 12-06-05, 02:17 PM	Hmmm sorry to be a pain but could you point me towards the new faq ? also is the faq officially approved by Wizards or is it just a "house rule" of the forums ? Here is the link to the new FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a It is the "Official D&D Game Rules FAQ" from the Wizards.com site. The floating feat/skills bit is a little wonky, and seems a pain to account for, as others have said. The ability to add templates isn't too bad if you, as has been suggested by others (and myself above), treat the LA+x as if it were HD+x. This means if you can wildshape into a creature with 10 HD, then you could only transform into a creature with 9 HD + LA+1 (template), or 6 HD + LA+4 (template).
Tr0gd0r 12-08-05, 08:10 AM	thanks for the link to the faq gives some weight to the allowance of templates i'll pass this thread and the faq to my gm and the other players and see what they think so if we say LA = +HD then if i am a lvl 12 druid then can i wildshape into say a 9HD creature with +3 HD of LA templates and still have 12HD of HP along with the 12 x con bonus from the creature i am in along with any con mods from the templates ?
Altaris13 12-08-05, 09:20 AM	so if we say LA = +HD then if i am a lvl 12 druid then can i wildshape into say a 9HD creature with +3 HD of LA templates and still have 12HD of HP along with the 12 x con bonus from the creature i am in along with any con mods from the templates ? In a word, yes. The LA = +HD is really the only way to make this ruling in any possible way seem balanced, but there is still very little reason NOT to wildshape into a templated creature. Since you keep your own HD and take the Con of the form you're in, woo wee big bonus! :D
Arismir 12-08-05, 11:14 AM	Templates are broken.
Altaris13 12-08-05, 11:37 AM	Templates are broken. Yep.