Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rotru 01-30-07, 11:24 AM	My DM allowed me to play a Neutral Good Paladin (with all the standard paladin abilities) with the aim of going for Pious Templar of Kord. He also allowed Pious Templar to multiclass freely with Paladin. Other than those DM modifications, no other house rules are used. Attributes were rolled with a very generous roll 5 keep 3 best, so my scores are through the roof. The difficulty of the camapaign and the scarcity of magic items has made up for this, though. Str 18 (16 + two level adjustments ) Dex 16 Con 16 Int 13 Wis 16 Cha 18 (16 +2 from cloak) Race: Human Fighter 2/Paladin 4/Pious Templar 2 Feats: Weapon Focus (Greatsword), True Believer (Kord), Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute Most noteworthy equipment: +2 Holy, Axiomatic Greatsword (probably not kosher with Kord in a normal campaign, but ours focuses on humanoids fighting back from the brink of extinction against the forces of Chaos and Evil) Here's what I want to know: 1. Is it worthwhile to go to Paladin 5 for the PHBII substitution, Charging Smite? 2. What do you think of Grey Guard from Complete Scoundrel? Seems like a nice way to get my Pious Templar spellcasting up and also make my Lay Hands and Smite more useful. 3. The DM will allow some retraining since we are just getting back into the campaign after several months hiatus. I am considering dropping Improved Sunder and Combat Brute for some of the Divine Feats. I am also thinking about just dropping the 2 levels of Fighter and going more holy, less feats. Keeping questions 1 and 2 in mind, what feats would you recommend? Thanks in advance!
ChristopherGroves 01-30-07, 11:28 AM	Have you looked at the variant paladins? If you wanted to go CG, there is an option. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm
rotru 01-30-07, 11:31 AM	Have you looked at the variant paladins? If you wanted to go CG, there is an option. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm I originally was going to take this, but the DM and I felt that being immune to fear was more in the spirit of Kord than being immune to compulsion.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-30-07, 11:37 AM	Divine Might would be an obvious choice for you. Charging Smite is pretty good. It gets really good if you combine it with other charge tricks (Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Rhino's Rush, etc). Note that both Divine Might and Charging Smite are flat bonuses, and are therefore subject to multipliers. The Valorous weapon ability (Unapproachable East) in particular springs to mind.
ChristopherGroves 01-30-07, 11:43 AM	Pious Templar just gives Pally spellcasting, right? Mettle, obviously, but the spellcasting is the same list as paladin I think. How about Divine Crusader?
Pinky's brain 01-30-07, 11:46 AM	Can you use Spell Compendium or Miniatures Handbook? I would drop the fighter levels too.
Phoenix00 01-30-07, 11:52 AM	Pious Templar just gives Pally spellcasting, right? Mettle, obviously, but the spellcasting is the same list as paladin I think. How about Divine Crusader? Pious Templar gives the paladin spell list, but over 10 lvls instead of 20.
rotru 01-30-07, 11:53 AM	Sorry, should have been explicit. All Complete books, all Races books, probably could make a case for Minis Handbook and Spell Compendium, definitely no Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Pious Templar gives the paladin spell list, but over 10 lvls instead of 20. Right, which is nice. If I take Grey Guard, I'll definitely be giving the +1 to Spellcaster Levels to Pious Templar instead of Paladin.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-30-07, 12:12 PM	Right, which is nice. If I take Grey Guard, I'll definitely be giving the +1 to Spellcaster Levels to Pious Templar instead of Paladin. Complete Scoundrel stuff hasn't circulated too much yet (well, I haven't got it yet anyway). So to get the best help some sort of (non COC violating) summary of its abilities might be a good idea.
rotru 01-30-07, 12:23 PM	Complete Scoundrel stuff hasn't circulated too much yet (well, I haven't got it yet anyway). So to get the best help some sort of (non COC violating) summary of its abilities might be a good idea. Sure thing. +1 to divine spellcaster level on even levels reduced penalties to atoning and eventually relaxed code of conduct levels stack with Paladin for Lay on Hands and Smite use Lay on Hands for a pain effect, and eventually to do direct damage as touch attack can smite chaos as well as evil, eventually can use smite on any alignment chosen full BAB good fort and will saves I hope that isn't giving away too much. Obviously, not all those abilities are gained at 1st. I don't have my book with me to be more specific, though.
Phoenix00 01-30-07, 12:39 PM	5/10 spellcasting, Lays on Hands stacks Gains 2 more smites per day Smites Chaos at lvl 4 must say you are smiting chaos or it doesn't work, Smite any allingment at lvl 9 don't have to declare you are smiting alingment X. Gets Debilitating Touch and Eventually Devastating Touch. You swear an oath of feality to your cause greater than the typical paladin oath. If you do a evil or nonlawful act you have to atone but no XP costs for the atonement spell. At lvl 10 you never have to atone for you never lose your abilities, unless you are completely evil or betray the trust of your leaders, so as long as you are being evil/non-lawful to the cause you can do whatever you want, being evil and such for personal gain is a no-no. Its pretty much the jack bauer of the paladin world. A person who is willing to do anything neccessary, including torture, or hurting other people, for the cause.
rotru 01-30-07, 02:57 PM	Its pretty much the jack bauer of the paladin world. A person who is willing to do anything neccessary, including torture, or hurting other people, for the cause. A great way to put it! It's flavorful and (I think) effective. It fits perfectly with our campaign, too. If I don't get to dump the fighter levels, or I decide to keep them, this is what I'm thinking: Fighter 2/Paladin 4/Pious Templar 4/Grey Guard 10 I don't get the Charging Smite this way, but my character would be plenty dangerous as is, and I can keep the Combat Brute or Shock Trooper plus get a few Divine feats. If I get rid of the Fighter levels: Paladin 6/Pious Templar 4/Grey Guard 10 Charging Smite, better Lay Hands and Smite, plus enough feats to keep me happy. So for those of you who have checked out the Grey Guard, what do you think? Should I go more Pious Templar and less Grey Guard? Thanks!
SpartanMD 01-30-07, 04:32 PM	There was a cool Paladin substitution level that swapped out a Mount for a Celestial Blade. The weapon improved with character advancement and could be enhanced by the paladin in additon. This idea might work well as you have focused in using the greatsword by taking Pious Templar. I would also take Divine might and perhaps extra turning to fuel it.... I personally love the flavor of improved crit with a paladin as it optimizes the Bless weapon spell which autoconfirms all crits. just my 2 cents....
Tshern 01-30-07, 05:26 PM	I'd take Paladin until you get Pious Templar, then take it until Mettle is reached (Level 2?) and go Gray Guard 10. And for crying out loud, take Saint template!
ChristopherGroves 01-30-07, 05:39 PM	I still would be tempted to go Paladin, Pious Templar, Divine Crusader and then your PrC and advance the Divine Crusader casting - you'll get less spell selection but with higher level options and they'll be CHA based, letting you focus on CHA more than WIS for Divine Might, etc.
rotru 01-30-07, 05:52 PM	I still would be tempted to go Paladin, Pious Templar, Divine Crusader and then your PrC and advance the Divine Crusader casting - you'll get less spell selection but with higher level options and they'll be CHA based, letting you focus on CHA more than WIS for Divine Might, etc. Without the benefit of my books... Divine Crusader is the one that grants 9 level casting, but only for a single Domain of spells, right? I think I originally passed on that class because of the mid-level BAB. Besides the CHA synergy, what else could work well here? Keep in mind I would be limited to one of Kord's domains.
DaveTheMagicWeasel 01-31-07, 07:25 AM	Without the benefit of my books... Divine Crusader is the one that grants 9 level casting, but only for a single Domain of spells, right? I think I originally passed on that class because of the mid-level BAB. Besides the CHA synergy, what else could work well here? Keep in mind I would be limited to one of Kord's domains. Anything for a bonus domain is decent for a Divine Crusader (Contemplative 1 is the obvious easy one). Mainly, Divine Crusader is used to get access to Righteous Might and other buff spells (sometimes Divine Power, but you won't likely be needing it). The Competition domain is a common one (and I'm pretty sure Kord gets it). Wrath is also good (not sure if Kord gets that one though). Both are in Spell Compendium.