Advice on a Monk please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on a Monk please [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gargs454
03-09-05, 10:19 PM Hey everyone,

I am getting back to playing as a PC after a long time being the DM and was looking for some advice on the Monk that I have decided to roll up. I'm more concerned with roleplaying than min/maxing (as is obvious by my choice of Halfling as my race) but still did not want to completely gimp my character if possible. Anyhoo, a few notes before I get into the heart of the question(s):

Halfling Monk 1 (Jobo Tanglefoot) LN
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 15
Int: 11
Wis: 17
Cha: 6

Additionally, the DM has already houseruled that small characters will not suffer the penalty to Unarmed Damage, reasoning that there is already a penalty from the -2 to Str, and that a 16 Str is a 16 Str; etc.

So, my question is this. What are some good feats and/or skills to focus on? And what are some good Prestige Classes to look at?

My early thoughts are that I will go with Kensai as the bonuses will mesh nicely with the Monk ability set, but wanted to make sure that there wasn't something better. I looked at Enlightened Fist, but just don't see a viable way of arranging the stats to make a caster seem reasonable.

My early plan for feats is thus: Dodge, Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes (playing a Strongheart Halfling so I get a bonus feat at first level). It seems that both Combat Reflexes and Deflect Arrows are useful. Weapon Focus might be worth picking up later on as well. Other options later on also seem to include Improved Trip, Improved Grapple (though I'll wait to see how much that seems to happen first) and Mobility. I wanted to get the opinions of the experts though since I don't have much experience with Monks (none of my players ever wanted to play one).

At any rate, I appreciate any help you all can provide and thank you kindly in advance!
Squirrelloid
03-09-05, 10:24 PM If you're interested in playing a gish build (combat + casting) i recommend you check out the Enlightened Fist thread. Its in the top 40 or so most recently updated threads, shouldnt be too hard to find. (You'd want to switch you cha and wis if you did that though).
Shandrakor
03-10-05, 12:43 AM What will your party role be? Our recommendations will vary based on wether you want to be a sneaky monk, a brawler monk, or a speedy monk. Will you be wanting to use a monk weapon at first and switch to bare fists later or..? Here's the opti library...remember, you can get there from the stickys at the top of the board. Scroll down to get to the monk section; mean_liar has a number of fun builds, and there are some specific ones if they suit your fancy.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480
Tempest Stormwind
03-10-05, 12:52 AM Wis 17, plus a monk/kensai idea?

Look at Freezing the Lifeblood, Complete Warrior.

Combine this with anything that improves a coup de grace (I think there's a feat in Complete Adventurer that speeds it up), and general Stunning Fist options (like Rapid Stunning, Extra Stunning, and so on). This is still perfectly compatible with mobility monks, although it takes a decent amount of dedication to rush for.

Voila. You have a signature combat technique -- you hit people in pressure points until they stop moving (which, with the right choices, could be in one hit, or many hits), and then you twist their neck and run to the next one (or, since the feat in CV speeds it to a standard action, you HIDE with your move action -- monk - Shadowdancer - kensai is a decent enough way to pull this off, if somewhat unconventional).
Gargs454
03-10-05, 11:12 AM What will your party role be? Our recommendations will vary based on wether you want to be a sneaky monk, a brawler monk, or a speedy monk. Will you be wanting to use a monk weapon at first and switch to bare fists later or..? Here's the opti library...remember, you can get there from the stickys at the top of the board. Scroll down to get to the monk section; mean_liar has a number of fun builds, and there are some specific ones if they suit your fancy.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480

Doh! Knew I was forgetting something important. :P

I think I am leaning toward the Brawler/Speedy Monk. I will not be the primary tank, and we have a Rogue who is planning on investing heavily in sneak like abilities, so it seems as though it would be a waste to invest in that as well. For the most part, I envision myself as being a support melee who will run around and help out where needed most (Stun an enemy to set him up for the Rogue, Flank with another PC to add to hit chances, Come to the aid of a party member in need) that sort of thing. I plan to use a little bit of ranged weapons, but am planning on concentrating on melee.

For example, I definitely could see myself leading a charge with a flying shuriken or sling. I plan to carry a Sai at least until I decide if disarming is a viable option. My main weapons though will be my unarmed attacks.

Hope that helps clear things up, and I will also take a gander at the Opti library.

Tempest: Would you recommend I put the Wis elsewhere? Not sure by your comment if you think that is a bad idea with the Monk/Kensai if I go that way. (Like I said, don't have much experience with Monks, so I'm definitely open to suggestions).

Thanks again all!
Tempest Stormwind
03-10-05, 12:20 PM Tempest: Would you recommend I put the Wis elsewhere? Not sure by your comment if you think that is a bad idea with the Monk/Kensai if I go that way. (Like I said, don't have much experience with Monks, so I'm definitely open to suggestions).

Thanks again all!
In some monk builds, wisdom becomes more important than Strength. A Freezing the Lifeblood / Coup De Grace monk is indeed one of these.

The role you described works well with a FtL monk, by the way -- especially with Rapid Stunning. Jump in to surround yourself, flurry/stun away, flank with the rogue on his turn for sneak attacks, and CdG the biggest baddie still standing.

Other good feats for this kind of build usually involve grapples or trip/throws. A favorite of mine is Grappling Block -- steep prereqs, but it combines disarms and evades. Another fun one is Great Throw -- battlefield control plus repositioning (trip the baddie, throw him closer to the primary combatant or away from the party spellcasters, repeat). There are other feats similar to Freezing the Lifeblood that aren't as steep on the prerequisites, but are nonetheless effective -- Falling Star Strike and Eagle Claw Attack (I think that's what the feat is called, IDHTBWM), for instance. These are in Oriental Adventures, a setting where monks are supposed to be good at what they do.

Kensai then turns your unarmed strikes into a lethal, lethal weapon, while giving you a few interesting powerhouse options to boot. You lose some special monk powers, and a bit of wisdom synergy, but it's a solid class anyway.
Gargs454
03-10-05, 09:09 PM Thanks for the help Tempest, I definitely like the idea of the Freezing the Lifeblood -- Coup-de-grace combo.

I am also considering perhaps going with Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries instead of Kensai, but with FtLB and Coup-de-grace, the upped dmg die may not really be necessary.
Tiax returns
03-10-05, 09:36 PM Another good feat to use with stunning fist is weakening touch. No save, -6 str. If you go with that and improved trip, you can focus more on Str than Wis, because you don't have to worry about stun DC's. Also, I'd stick to imp-trip rather than imp-grapple: you can hold your own in a grapple anyway, and trip leaves you free to move on and engage other foes (which seems to be where you're going with this).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gargs454 03-09-05, 10:19 PM	Hey everyone, I am getting back to playing as a PC after a long time being the DM and was looking for some advice on the Monk that I have decided to roll up. I'm more concerned with roleplaying than min/maxing (as is obvious by my choice of Halfling as my race) but still did not want to completely gimp my character if possible. Anyhoo, a few notes before I get into the heart of the question(s): Halfling Monk 1 (Jobo Tanglefoot) LN Str: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 15 Int: 11 Wis: 17 Cha: 6 Additionally, the DM has already houseruled that small characters will not suffer the penalty to Unarmed Damage, reasoning that there is already a penalty from the -2 to Str, and that a 16 Str is a 16 Str; etc. So, my question is this. What are some good feats and/or skills to focus on? And what are some good Prestige Classes to look at? My early thoughts are that I will go with Kensai as the bonuses will mesh nicely with the Monk ability set, but wanted to make sure that there wasn't something better. I looked at Enlightened Fist, but just don't see a viable way of arranging the stats to make a caster seem reasonable. My early plan for feats is thus: Dodge, Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes (playing a Strongheart Halfling so I get a bonus feat at first level). It seems that both Combat Reflexes and Deflect Arrows are useful. Weapon Focus might be worth picking up later on as well. Other options later on also seem to include Improved Trip, Improved Grapple (though I'll wait to see how much that seems to happen first) and Mobility. I wanted to get the opinions of the experts though since I don't have much experience with Monks (none of my players ever wanted to play one). At any rate, I appreciate any help you all can provide and thank you kindly in advance!
Squirrelloid 03-09-05, 10:24 PM	If you're interested in playing a gish build (combat + casting) i recommend you check out the Enlightened Fist thread. Its in the top 40 or so most recently updated threads, shouldnt be too hard to find. (You'd want to switch you cha and wis if you did that though).
Shandrakor 03-10-05, 12:43 AM	What will your party role be? Our recommendations will vary based on wether you want to be a sneaky monk, a brawler monk, or a speedy monk. Will you be wanting to use a monk weapon at first and switch to bare fists later or..? Here's the opti library...remember, you can get there from the stickys at the top of the board. Scroll down to get to the monk section; mean_liar has a number of fun builds, and there are some specific ones if they suit your fancy. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480
Tempest Stormwind 03-10-05, 12:52 AM	Wis 17, plus a monk/kensai idea? Look at Freezing the Lifeblood, Complete Warrior. Combine this with anything that improves a coup de grace (I think there's a feat in Complete Adventurer that speeds it up), and general Stunning Fist options (like Rapid Stunning, Extra Stunning, and so on). This is still perfectly compatible with mobility monks, although it takes a decent amount of dedication to rush for. Voila. You have a signature combat technique -- you hit people in pressure points until they stop moving (which, with the right choices, could be in one hit, or many hits), and then you twist their neck and run to the next one (or, since the feat in CV speeds it to a standard action, you HIDE with your move action -- monk - Shadowdancer - kensai is a decent enough way to pull this off, if somewhat unconventional).
Gargs454 03-10-05, 11:12 AM	What will your party role be? Our recommendations will vary based on wether you want to be a sneaky monk, a brawler monk, or a speedy monk. Will you be wanting to use a monk weapon at first and switch to bare fists later or..? Here's the opti library...remember, you can get there from the stickys at the top of the board. Scroll down to get to the monk section; mean_liar has a number of fun builds, and there are some specific ones if they suit your fancy. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=213480 Doh! Knew I was forgetting something important. :P I think I am leaning toward the Brawler/Speedy Monk. I will not be the primary tank, and we have a Rogue who is planning on investing heavily in sneak like abilities, so it seems as though it would be a waste to invest in that as well. For the most part, I envision myself as being a support melee who will run around and help out where needed most (Stun an enemy to set him up for the Rogue, Flank with another PC to add to hit chances, Come to the aid of a party member in need) that sort of thing. I plan to use a little bit of ranged weapons, but am planning on concentrating on melee. For example, I definitely could see myself leading a charge with a flying shuriken or sling. I plan to carry a Sai at least until I decide if disarming is a viable option. My main weapons though will be my unarmed attacks. Hope that helps clear things up, and I will also take a gander at the Opti library. Tempest: Would you recommend I put the Wis elsewhere? Not sure by your comment if you think that is a bad idea with the Monk/Kensai if I go that way. (Like I said, don't have much experience with Monks, so I'm definitely open to suggestions). Thanks again all!
Tempest Stormwind 03-10-05, 12:20 PM	Tempest: Would you recommend I put the Wis elsewhere? Not sure by your comment if you think that is a bad idea with the Monk/Kensai if I go that way. (Like I said, don't have much experience with Monks, so I'm definitely open to suggestions). Thanks again all! In some monk builds, wisdom becomes more important than Strength. A Freezing the Lifeblood / Coup De Grace monk is indeed one of these. The role you described works well with a FtL monk, by the way -- especially with Rapid Stunning. Jump in to surround yourself, flurry/stun away, flank with the rogue on his turn for sneak attacks, and CdG the biggest baddie still standing. Other good feats for this kind of build usually involve grapples or trip/throws. A favorite of mine is Grappling Block -- steep prereqs, but it combines disarms and evades. Another fun one is Great Throw -- battlefield control plus repositioning (trip the baddie, throw him closer to the primary combatant or away from the party spellcasters, repeat). There are other feats similar to Freezing the Lifeblood that aren't as steep on the prerequisites, but are nonetheless effective -- Falling Star Strike and Eagle Claw Attack (I think that's what the feat is called, IDHTBWM), for instance. These are in Oriental Adventures, a setting where monks are supposed to be good at what they do. Kensai then turns your unarmed strikes into a lethal, lethal weapon, while giving you a few interesting powerhouse options to boot. You lose some special monk powers, and a bit of wisdom synergy, but it's a solid class anyway.
Gargs454 03-10-05, 09:09 PM	Thanks for the help Tempest, I definitely like the idea of the Freezing the Lifeblood -- Coup-de-grace combo. I am also considering perhaps going with Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries instead of Kensai, but with FtLB and Coup-de-grace, the upped dmg die may not really be necessary.
Tiax returns 03-10-05, 09:36 PM	Another good feat to use with stunning fist is weakening touch. No save, -6 str. If you go with that and improved trip, you can focus more on Str than Wis, because you don't have to worry about stun DC's. Also, I'd stick to imp-trip rather than imp-grapple: you can hold your own in a grapple anyway, and trip leaves you free to move on and engage other foes (which seems to be where you're going with this).