Advice on making a Kensai [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on making a Kensai [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HamHam
06-10-04, 02:14 PM I'm trying to come up with a cool boss for a campaign I'm making and I think a LE Kensai would be perfect.

Here's my plan so far:

Fighter 8/ (Monk or Rogue) 2/ Kensai 10

He'll use his Kensai powers to imbue his weapon (probably a bastard sword or longsword) with Explosive and, probably, +5 (which leaves +3 to play around with).

Now, with his Withstand ability, Evasion gained from the Monk or Rogue levels, and 20+ Concentration check, he can wade into party and just start setting off AoE blasts from the Explosive Weapon with almost no fear of being hit himself.

Now, what else would synergise well with this? What other magical items should he have? What should I do with the +3 bonus left on his weapon? Any suggestions would be greatly appresciated.
Enoch Van Garret
06-10-04, 03:15 PM Make sure he's got juiced defense, or he'll die before getting to do anything cool first. SR is always good, as is damage reduction. If you like a lengthy battle, make sure he's got craploads of hit points from somewhere - villains with tons of HPs and relatively weak attacks make for extremely entertaining battles for the PCs, especially if their attacks stun or otherwise hamper PCs. I would change it so that instead of his explosions dealing damage, they stun and entangle on a failed reflex save.

Want more fun? Chaos Wave - on a failed saving throw, anyone within the blast radius of this effect rolls on a random effects table. Roll 1d8:

1 - take 10d6 points of damage, hasted for 1 round.
2 - take 5d6 points of damage and movement doubles for 1 round (as Expedious Retreat).
3 - take 2d6 points of damage and entangled for 3 rounds
4 - take 0 damage, stunned for 1 round, blinded for 3 rounds.
5 - take 0 damage, stunned for 1 round, silenced for 3 rounds
6 - take 0 damage, stunned for 1 round, slowed for 3 rounds
7 - healed for 2d6 points of damage, polymorphed into random form for 1 round.
8 - healed for 5d6 points of damage, polymorphed into random form for 6 rounds, stunned and entangled for 1 round.

Never underestimate the hilarity random effects can cause!
LunarCaustic
06-10-04, 05:53 PM If I may offer a suggestion take Figher7/Rouge3 for the extra sneak attack unless you need the extra feat in that case I see where you are going for the left over bonus take Speed if you give up a + you could take keen as well assuming you dont have Imp. Crit.
For Items you should have some type of light armor with fortification Mithral Breastplate is nice.
Aranan
06-11-04, 07:59 AM Figher7/Rouge3
Never end with an odd fighter level. They're pretty much worthless.
Maladict
06-11-04, 08:04 AM Why not make it Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 3

The high int will be nice for skills points and damage and you will want weapon finesse with high dex anyway. Forth fighter level nets you another feat which can be used for weapon-spec.
Visanideth
06-11-04, 09:10 AM Well, if you're taking a bastard sword, slip in a Exotic Weapon master lvl and uncanny blow.

If you have str 15 + 6 item + 5 lvl + 8 power surge you'll get Str 34 during power surge, which means +7 to hit +10 to damage. With uncanny blow it becomes +7/+14.

Two very sinergic classes, and the role is fine (both focus on the weapon).
frisbeet
06-11-04, 09:54 AM Is anyone bothered by the weaker BAB progression awarded the Kensai? CW spellcaster PrCs don't suffer this.

???
Bishop Drazz
06-11-04, 10:10 AM No offense, but your base class combo seems odd for kensai. Your options:

Fighter 8/monk 2--waste of monk levels. I see you were looking for evasion, but all the other monk abilities (unarmed strike, AC bonus) are pretty much not going to be used.

Fighter 8/rogue2--where's your concentration skill? Your talking about a 20+ concentration check, but you can't have that with this build

A solid base for Kensai is more along the lines of:
Paladin 4--divine grace for saves, concentration skill, turn undead for divine feats
Fighter 2--for feats
(rogue 2)--if you are dead set on getting the evasion feat, plus with the paladin levels and divine grace you are very likely to make those saves.
HamHam
06-11-04, 10:26 AM Originally posted by frisbeet
Is anyone bothered by the weaker BAB progression awarded the Kensai? CW spellcaster PrCs don't suffer this.

???

I can understand the first level BAB loss, but I was puzzeled by the random loss of BAB in between 8th and 9th levels... is that intentional?

Originally posted by Bishop Drazz
No offense, but your base class combo seems odd for kensai. Your options:

Fighter 8/monk 2--waste of monk levels. I see you were looking for evasion, but all the other monk abilities (unarmed strike, AC bonus) are pretty much not going to be used.

Fighter 8/rogue2--where's your concentration skill? Your talking about a 20+ concentration check, but you can't have that with this build

The rogue does seem preferable over the monk. As for concentration, the Kensai levels themselves provide more than enough skill points to max it out...
Visanideth
06-11-04, 11:05 AM Umm.
What about Paladin 4/Monk2/Ex Weapon master 1?

7 lvls, BaB +6, Cha to saves, evasion, double str on damage.

Cha is used for most Kensai skills; eventual meta-turning feats cannot hurt the character.
SpartanMD
06-11-04, 05:22 PM Originally posted by frisbeet
Is anyone bothered by the weaker BAB progression awarded the Kensai? CW spellcaster PrCs don't suffer this.

???

Yeah, I totally agree! The Kensai is supposed to be a weapon master, so why should they not have the optimum BAB? Personally, I think it would make more sense to have the fighter BAB with only a +4 Str boost.

By the way, can the Kensai get the Str boost for 1 round/kensai level or character level? For example, a 5Pal/5Kensai would be able to boost his Str for 5 or 10 rounds? I think its 10.....
SpartanMD
06-11-04, 05:26 PM Here's a suggestion for a Kensai prestige class with a melee weapon. Paladin levels seem to be the most obvious. Then you could max out the concentration skill. The problem is there are too many stats that need to be optimized with the intelligence requiring cobat expertise feat. Here's what I was thinking for my 10th level char...

S14 I14 W12 D10 C 14 Ch 15

Pal1 Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite, Weapon focus, Expertise
Pal 2 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Pal 3 Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Power Attack
Pal 4 Turn Undead +1 Cha
Ftr 1 Improved Init
Ken 1 Signature Weapon, Divine Might
Ken 2 Power Surge
Ken 3 +1 Cha
Ken 4 Ki Projection, Improved Crit
Ken 5 Withstand

WHOOPS! :eek:

I just re read your post and you want a Lawful Evil charater....guess paladin won't work....
Qaetar
06-11-04, 10:03 PM UA Lawful Evil Paladin Variant...
Davus Antonius
06-11-04, 11:44 PM Or try Dragon #312 for evil paladin variants.
HamHam
06-12-04, 12:40 AM Or I could just make it so... I've never liked alignment restricitons on classes anyway.

On the build itself:

How about 2 Monk/2 Exotic Wep Master/10 Kensai/6 Fighter or Paladin

Then for EWM get Uncanny Blow and Stunning Blow, which will make my Stunning Fist attacks from Monk usable with my weapon.

What exactly do 4 levels of Pally give compared to 2 more fighter bonus feats?
Qaetar
06-12-04, 09:34 AM Cha to Saves. Turn Undead for Divine Might. 1st Level Pal Spells.
DeadEye
06-12-04, 10:13 AM Originally posted by HamHam
What should I do with the +3 bonus left on his weapon?

Wrathful Healing is a great enchantment for anyone doing a lot of damage with their melee weapon, and will generally increase survivability by a decent amount. It's +3 and it's in the Enemies and Allies book.
Thelon Fairblade
08-05-04, 12:39 PM What about this:

Monk 7 / Kensai 10 / any 3

And imbue your hands with the Kensai's powers? It imbues all your natural attacks of that type (blunt, in this case), and you could, first thing (okay, Kensai 2), take Sure Striking for a +1 bonus that helps you penetrate alignment-based DR! Next +1, get "metalline" (or is it +2?) to bypass all the material-based DRs. After that, you're free to go with your +1 bonus to hit and damage, and bypass all DRs (without additional monk "Ki Strike" features needed)!
EatFlan
08-05-04, 12:48 PM Sounds like you'll have a high wisdom anyways, so go 1 level in Shiba Protector to get Wis to Attack and Damage. (oriental adv.)
pawsplay
08-05-04, 10:44 PM The idea of a fighter/paladin prestige class appearing in The Complete Warrior with less than full BAB is still a little baffing to me.
Thelon Fairblade
08-06-04, 08:47 AM Any other ideas for what enhancements to imbue into your natural attacks?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HamHam 06-10-04, 02:14 PM	I'm trying to come up with a cool boss for a campaign I'm making and I think a LE Kensai would be perfect. Here's my plan so far: Fighter 8/ (Monk or Rogue) 2/ Kensai 10 He'll use his Kensai powers to imbue his weapon (probably a bastard sword or longsword) with Explosive and, probably, +5 (which leaves +3 to play around with). Now, with his Withstand ability, Evasion gained from the Monk or Rogue levels, and 20+ Concentration check, he can wade into party and just start setting off AoE blasts from the Explosive Weapon with almost no fear of being hit himself. Now, what else would synergise well with this? What other magical items should he have? What should I do with the +3 bonus left on his weapon? Any suggestions would be greatly appresciated.
Enoch Van Garret 06-10-04, 03:15 PM	Make sure he's got juiced defense, or he'll die before getting to do anything cool first. SR is always good, as is damage reduction. If you like a lengthy battle, make sure he's got craploads of hit points from somewhere - villains with tons of HPs and relatively weak attacks make for extremely entertaining battles for the PCs, especially if their attacks stun or otherwise hamper PCs. I would change it so that instead of his explosions dealing damage, they stun and entangle on a failed reflex save. Want more fun? Chaos Wave - on a failed saving throw, anyone within the blast radius of this effect rolls on a random effects table. Roll 1d8: 1 - take 10d6 points of damage, hasted for 1 round. 2 - take 5d6 points of damage and movement doubles for 1 round (as Expedious Retreat). 3 - take 2d6 points of damage and entangled for 3 rounds 4 - take 0 damage, stunned for 1 round, blinded for 3 rounds. 5 - take 0 damage, stunned for 1 round, silenced for 3 rounds 6 - take 0 damage, stunned for 1 round, slowed for 3 rounds 7 - healed for 2d6 points of damage, polymorphed into random form for 1 round. 8 - healed for 5d6 points of damage, polymorphed into random form for 6 rounds, stunned and entangled for 1 round. Never underestimate the hilarity random effects can cause!
LunarCaustic 06-10-04, 05:53 PM	If I may offer a suggestion take Figher7/Rouge3 for the extra sneak attack unless you need the extra feat in that case I see where you are going for the left over bonus take Speed if you give up a + you could take keen as well assuming you dont have Imp. Crit. For Items you should have some type of light armor with fortification Mithral Breastplate is nice.
Aranan 06-11-04, 07:59 AM	Figher7/Rouge3 Never end with an odd fighter level. They're pretty much worthless.
Maladict 06-11-04, 08:04 AM	Why not make it Rogue 3/Fighter 4/Swashbuckler 3 The high int will be nice for skills points and damage and you will want weapon finesse with high dex anyway. Forth fighter level nets you another feat which can be used for weapon-spec.
Visanideth 06-11-04, 09:10 AM	Well, if you're taking a bastard sword, slip in a Exotic Weapon master lvl and uncanny blow. If you have str 15 + 6 item + 5 lvl + 8 power surge you'll get Str 34 during power surge, which means +7 to hit +10 to damage. With uncanny blow it becomes +7/+14. Two very sinergic classes, and the role is fine (both focus on the weapon).
frisbeet 06-11-04, 09:54 AM	Is anyone bothered by the weaker BAB progression awarded the Kensai? CW spellcaster PrCs don't suffer this. ???
Bishop Drazz 06-11-04, 10:10 AM	No offense, but your base class combo seems odd for kensai. Your options: Fighter 8/monk 2--waste of monk levels. I see you were looking for evasion, but all the other monk abilities (unarmed strike, AC bonus) are pretty much not going to be used. Fighter 8/rogue2--where's your concentration skill? Your talking about a 20+ concentration check, but you can't have that with this build A solid base for Kensai is more along the lines of: Paladin 4--divine grace for saves, concentration skill, turn undead for divine feats Fighter 2--for feats (rogue 2)--if you are dead set on getting the evasion feat, plus with the paladin levels and divine grace you are very likely to make those saves.
HamHam 06-11-04, 10:26 AM	Originally posted by frisbeet Is anyone bothered by the weaker BAB progression awarded the Kensai? CW spellcaster PrCs don't suffer this. ??? I can understand the first level BAB loss, but I was puzzeled by the random loss of BAB in between 8th and 9th levels... is that intentional? Originally posted by Bishop Drazz No offense, but your base class combo seems odd for kensai. Your options: Fighter 8/monk 2--waste of monk levels. I see you were looking for evasion, but all the other monk abilities (unarmed strike, AC bonus) are pretty much not going to be used. Fighter 8/rogue2--where's your concentration skill? Your talking about a 20+ concentration check, but you can't have that with this build The rogue does seem preferable over the monk. As for concentration, the Kensai levels themselves provide more than enough skill points to max it out...
Visanideth 06-11-04, 11:05 AM	Umm. What about Paladin 4/Monk2/Ex Weapon master 1? 7 lvls, BaB +6, Cha to saves, evasion, double str on damage. Cha is used for most Kensai skills; eventual meta-turning feats cannot hurt the character.
SpartanMD 06-11-04, 05:22 PM	Originally posted by frisbeet Is anyone bothered by the weaker BAB progression awarded the Kensai? CW spellcaster PrCs don't suffer this. ??? Yeah, I totally agree! The Kensai is supposed to be a weapon master, so why should they not have the optimum BAB? Personally, I think it would make more sense to have the fighter BAB with only a +4 Str boost. By the way, can the Kensai get the Str boost for 1 round/kensai level or character level? For example, a 5Pal/5Kensai would be able to boost his Str for 5 or 10 rounds? I think its 10.....
SpartanMD 06-11-04, 05:26 PM	Here's a suggestion for a Kensai prestige class with a melee weapon. Paladin levels seem to be the most obvious. Then you could max out the concentration skill. The problem is there are too many stats that need to be optimized with the intelligence requiring cobat expertise feat. Here's what I was thinking for my 10th level char... S14 I14 W12 D10 C 14 Ch 15 Pal1 Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite, Weapon focus, Expertise Pal 2 Divine Grace, Lay on Hands Pal 3 Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Power Attack Pal 4 Turn Undead +1 Cha Ftr 1 Improved Init Ken 1 Signature Weapon, Divine Might Ken 2 Power Surge Ken 3 +1 Cha Ken 4 Ki Projection, Improved Crit Ken 5 Withstand WHOOPS! :eek: I just re read your post and you want a Lawful Evil charater....guess paladin won't work....
Qaetar 06-11-04, 10:03 PM	UA Lawful Evil Paladin Variant...
Davus Antonius 06-11-04, 11:44 PM	Or try Dragon #312 for evil paladin variants.
HamHam 06-12-04, 12:40 AM	Or I could just make it so... I've never liked alignment restricitons on classes anyway. On the build itself: How about 2 Monk/2 Exotic Wep Master/10 Kensai/6 Fighter or Paladin Then for EWM get Uncanny Blow and Stunning Blow, which will make my Stunning Fist attacks from Monk usable with my weapon. What exactly do 4 levels of Pally give compared to 2 more fighter bonus feats?
Qaetar 06-12-04, 09:34 AM	Cha to Saves. Turn Undead for Divine Might. 1st Level Pal Spells.
DeadEye 06-12-04, 10:13 AM	Originally posted by HamHam What should I do with the +3 bonus left on his weapon? Wrathful Healing is a great enchantment for anyone doing a lot of damage with their melee weapon, and will generally increase survivability by a decent amount. It's +3 and it's in the Enemies and Allies book.
Thelon Fairblade 08-05-04, 12:39 PM	What about this: Monk 7 / Kensai 10 / any 3 And imbue your hands with the Kensai's powers? It imbues all your natural attacks of that type (blunt, in this case), and you could, first thing (okay, Kensai 2), take Sure Striking for a +1 bonus that helps you penetrate alignment-based DR! Next +1, get "metalline" (or is it +2?) to bypass all the material-based DRs. After that, you're free to go with your +1 bonus to hit and damage, and bypass all DRs (without additional monk "Ki Strike" features needed)!
EatFlan 08-05-04, 12:48 PM	Sounds like you'll have a high wisdom anyways, so go 1 level in Shiba Protector to get Wis to Attack and Damage. (oriental adv.)
pawsplay 08-05-04, 10:44 PM	The idea of a fighter/paladin prestige class appearing in The Complete Warrior with less than full BAB is still a little baffing to me.
Thelon Fairblade 08-06-04, 08:47 AM	Any other ideas for what enhancements to imbue into your natural attacks?