Advice on new 2-Weap Rogue/Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice on new 2-Weap Rogue/Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mistwell
07-01-06, 04:00 PM While I've been playing many years, I've never had the opportunity to actually play a rogue in 3.X (despite it being my favorite class in 1.0).

So, it looks like I may have the opportunity coming up. And, I could use some advice.

The setting is Ptolus (and it should go without saying - please no spoilers for any modules related to that setting). It should be 50% city adventure, 50% dungeon adventure, no wilderness. We are starting at first level.

All players so far are inexperienced with 3rd edition. The two unknowns may or may not have experience (DM is still in the process of choosing who will play, as there are as many as four-five people vying for the final two spots). The DM is very good, and very experienced, so he will do fine at introducing the game to the new players (and he in fact introduced me back into D&D years ago).

The party is so far likely composed of the following:

1) A barbarian (unknown race)
2) A Sorceror (probably elf, which has sorceror as favored class in Ptolus)
3) A dwarven cleric (apparently an artificer-type that will wield gunpowder weapons)
4) Unknown
5) Unknown
6) Myself

The Urban Ranger variant in Unearthed Arcana is allowed and encouraged for that class. In fact, most of the variant class changes from UA are permitted. I am unsure if the variants from PHB II will be permitted. Racial Paragon Classes from Unearthed Arcana are also available (and I happen to like the Human Paragon).

Because the cleric and sorceror are ranged-combat focused, I was thinking that a rogue who can engage in melee combat would be more useful than a ranged attacker (though I did consider a dagger thrower).

I have heard that a spring attacking rogue or a two-weapon-fighting rogue are both decent options. Given the lack of fighter-types so far, I was thinking the two-weapon-fighting stratgey was a better one for this group (though I am willing to be talked out of it).

Sources are so far just WOTC and Ptolus, no other settings (so NO forgotten realms or Eberron or Dragonlance).

Because the campaign is 1/2 city based, I was thinking that some of the Charisma skills would be helpful. And because there will be plenty of dungeons, the standard Delver-type skills are also important.

Right now, my plan is to go Rogue 3/Urban Ranger 2 (two-weapon fighting). Where to go from there remains open. Human is the likely race, but I am open to suggestions for an alternative. I like the Whisper Gnome but I am unsure if it will be allowed in this game. I am fond of halflings, so that is possible too though I am unsure if the slower speed would hinder this build or not. Seeing in the dark might be useful as well.

Any advice would be helpful.
PhoenixInferno
07-01-06, 04:26 PM Think about being a Dwarf. They get Darkvision, and bonuses to skills and can detect stone traps - useful in a dungeon setting.
Eshu
07-01-06, 06:15 PM I'm playing a similar build, this is it so far. Male elf planing on NightSong Enforcer

1st-1rogue, improved iniciative
2nd-1ranger
3rd-2ranger, bonus twf, oversized twf, I like longswords
4th-2rogue
5th-3rogue
6th-3ranger, improved twf
7th-4th elven ranger subt. level
8th-...

he's quite good in a melee, having high str and a BAB of level-1, with a good int you can have 7 skills max out
Taeldrin Laesrash
07-01-06, 06:27 PM Without fighter levels, you're a bit feat-starved for a TWF, especially a TWFing rogue (Although with five other players, that may not be a problem). I'd suggest going into Tempest (Complete Adventurer), and finishing off with more ranger levels (Or the other way around). You might also want to take Weapon Focus and wield two of the same weapon to help offset the penalties. As for race, human is probably your best bet, mainly for the extra feat.
pale
07-01-06, 06:59 PM Teling blow used with a high threat weapon (such as rapier\scimitar\kukri) seems to be good to a rouge. The feat makes you get sneak attack damage on criticals. It's from The players handbook 2.
Mistwell
07-02-06, 12:58 AM Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will start wading through them and coming up with a more focused direction...
Thanatos42
07-02-06, 01:51 AM Consider swashbuckler from Complete Warrior too. Weapon finesse at lvl 1, and Int to damage at lvl 3 along with good HP, good skills, and full BAB makes for a good complement to a rogue type character.

Another of my favorite builds is the monk/rogue. Stunning attack, flurry andsneak attack is a great combo.

Whatever route you go with, make sure you have two things: an easy way to initiate sneak attacks (darkness plus darkvision, for example) and a way to still deal out decent damage to enemies immune to crits.

If you can get whisper gnome, I say definitely go for it. There's just nothing not to love about that race.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mistwell 07-01-06, 04:00 PM	While I've been playing many years, I've never had the opportunity to actually play a rogue in 3.X (despite it being my favorite class in 1.0). So, it looks like I may have the opportunity coming up. And, I could use some advice. The setting is Ptolus (and it should go without saying - please no spoilers for any modules related to that setting). It should be 50% city adventure, 50% dungeon adventure, no wilderness. We are starting at first level. All players so far are inexperienced with 3rd edition. The two unknowns may or may not have experience (DM is still in the process of choosing who will play, as there are as many as four-five people vying for the final two spots). The DM is very good, and very experienced, so he will do fine at introducing the game to the new players (and he in fact introduced me back into D&D years ago). The party is so far likely composed of the following: 1) A barbarian (unknown race) 2) A Sorceror (probably elf, which has sorceror as favored class in Ptolus) 3) A dwarven cleric (apparently an artificer-type that will wield gunpowder weapons) 4) Unknown 5) Unknown 6) Myself The Urban Ranger variant in Unearthed Arcana is allowed and encouraged for that class. In fact, most of the variant class changes from UA are permitted. I am unsure if the variants from PHB II will be permitted. Racial Paragon Classes from Unearthed Arcana are also available (and I happen to like the Human Paragon). Because the cleric and sorceror are ranged-combat focused, I was thinking that a rogue who can engage in melee combat would be more useful than a ranged attacker (though I did consider a dagger thrower). I have heard that a spring attacking rogue or a two-weapon-fighting rogue are both decent options. Given the lack of fighter-types so far, I was thinking the two-weapon-fighting stratgey was a better one for this group (though I am willing to be talked out of it). Sources are so far just WOTC and Ptolus, no other settings (so NO forgotten realms or Eberron or Dragonlance). Because the campaign is 1/2 city based, I was thinking that some of the Charisma skills would be helpful. And because there will be plenty of dungeons, the standard Delver-type skills are also important. Right now, my plan is to go Rogue 3/Urban Ranger 2 (two-weapon fighting). Where to go from there remains open. Human is the likely race, but I am open to suggestions for an alternative. I like the Whisper Gnome but I am unsure if it will be allowed in this game. I am fond of halflings, so that is possible too though I am unsure if the slower speed would hinder this build or not. Seeing in the dark might be useful as well. Any advice would be helpful.
PhoenixInferno 07-01-06, 04:26 PM	Think about being a Dwarf. They get Darkvision, and bonuses to skills and can detect stone traps - useful in a dungeon setting.
Eshu 07-01-06, 06:15 PM	I'm playing a similar build, this is it so far. Male elf planing on NightSong Enforcer 1st-1rogue, improved iniciative 2nd-1ranger 3rd-2ranger, bonus twf, oversized twf, I like longswords 4th-2rogue 5th-3rogue 6th-3ranger, improved twf 7th-4th elven ranger subt. level 8th-... he's quite good in a melee, having high str and a BAB of level-1, with a good int you can have 7 skills max out
Taeldrin Laesrash 07-01-06, 06:27 PM	Without fighter levels, you're a bit feat-starved for a TWF, especially a TWFing rogue (Although with five other players, that may not be a problem). I'd suggest going into Tempest (Complete Adventurer), and finishing off with more ranger levels (Or the other way around). You might also want to take Weapon Focus and wield two of the same weapon to help offset the penalties. As for race, human is probably your best bet, mainly for the extra feat.
pale 07-01-06, 06:59 PM	Teling blow used with a high threat weapon (such as rapier\scimitar\kukri) seems to be good to a rouge. The feat makes you get sneak attack damage on criticals. It's from The players handbook 2.
Mistwell 07-02-06, 12:58 AM	Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will start wading through them and coming up with a more focused direction...
Thanatos42 07-02-06, 01:51 AM	Consider swashbuckler from Complete Warrior too. Weapon finesse at lvl 1, and Int to damage at lvl 3 along with good HP, good skills, and full BAB makes for a good complement to a rogue type character. Another of my favorite builds is the monk/rogue. Stunning attack, flurry andsneak attack is a great combo. Whatever route you go with, make sure you have two things: an easy way to initiate sneak attacks (darkness plus darkvision, for example) and a way to still deal out decent damage to enemies immune to crits. If you can get whisper gnome, I say definitely go for it. There's just nothing not to love about that race.