Post/Author/DateTime	Post
General_Ridley 04-13-05, 06:10 PM	I'm planning a Lich to make from a Gray Elf Wizard 8/Loremaster 10/ Archmage 2 who will have the High Arcanas of Mastery of elements and Mastery of Shaping. I will be focused largely on improving my spellcasting with the few feats I will get in edgewise, although I will take Improved Toughness to keep me alive until I can go lich. i'm currently thinking after 20th level. Also, My character is pursuing Lich because of his reverence for Vecna, and will sacrifice NPC's as often as possible following the table in the Book of Vile Darkness, so I have spare experience and gold to spend on my spells and magic items I create. so, could anyone advise me on when is best to pursue the Lich Template or if I already have the right idea.
Shandrakor 04-13-05, 06:20 PM	IIRC, there are 2 major schools of thought on this. Firstly, put it off as long a possible (about to go epic), then use wish to become a Death Knight (immune to turning), become a lich, then go Demilich ASAP. The Demilich has a swanky +20 to turn resistance, but an optimized cleric can make even that meaningless. One of the old monthly contests had some truly sick builds (October?). The other school feels that you should do it right at 11th, because even though you'll lose out on 4 effective levels of spellcasting and will lag a bit behind the rest of the party in power...you'll be a LICH! And liches are cool. Personally, I hold with the 'at 20th' school.
Endarire 04-13-05, 07:55 PM	First, what sources are allowed? Second, how far have you progressed with your current build? As it stands, going Wizard5/Geometer2/Mindbender1/Loremaster5/Archmage5/Loremaster7 seems like a more viable option. Regardless, take Practiced Caster and go Lich once you get 9th level spells, such as at 20. -EE
slade_caizer 04-13-05, 08:52 PM	IIRC, there are 2 major schools of thought on this. Firstly, put it off as long a possible (about to go epic), then use wish to become a Death Knight (immune to turning), become a lich, then go Demilich ASAP. The Demilich has a swanky +20 to turn resistance, but an optimized cleric can make even that meaningless. One of the old monthly contests had some truly sick builds (October?). The other school feels that you should do it right at 11th, because even though you'll lose out on 4 effective levels of spellcasting and will lag a bit behind the rest of the party in power...you'll be a LICH! And liches are cool. Personally, I hold with the 'at 20th' school. I'd also had the Death Knight idea some time ago, but I have to wonder...how do you get around that the Lich template has to be put on something...living? Oh and I'd probably say go Lich at 20 as well. That way you can be ready to fire away at 21. Demilich is SO worth it. My gray elf true necro went demilich...and the DM drew the campaign to a close.
runestar 04-13-05, 10:39 PM	Wizard5/Geometer2/Mindbender1/Loremaster5/Archmage5/Loremaster7 seems like a more viable option. Regardless, take Practiced Caster and go Lich once you get 9th level spells, such as at 20. If your are thinking about using practiced spellcaster to make up for the loss of caster lv from the +4 LA from lich template, read the feat desc again. It doesn't work that way. Only way for that to work would be to somehow incorporate the lich template into a 10 lv prc that granted 6 lvs of spellcasting progression.
filwinn 04-14-05, 01:35 AM	there is another problem with going lich that my character stumbled upon. Well you have the prereq's, you have craft wondrous items allright and then you need ....4 months to craft the damn philactery and it gets even worse if you were thinking about going demi lich. My actual character Warlock 20/Hexer 4 started at level 6 and never ever managed to find 4 months of spare time ...ok granted, the setting we are playing in is a land at war ...that doesn't exactly help to have tons of spare time, but still.
NineInchNall 04-14-05, 03:31 AM	:plotting: Plane shift to a plane with faster time. Make your phylactery. Plane shift back. Laugh evilly. :evillaugh Get rebuked by a cleric of below your level, making you wonder who the hell thought +4 turn resistance meant anything, especially when the template has a +4 LA. Tsk tsk tsk. :rolleyes: Seriously, normal liches need to have +20 turn resistance, and demiliches should be turning immune. Just my opinion.
jstorrie 04-14-05, 04:16 AM	Favoured Soul 11 / (Lich LA4) / Blackguard 3 / Favoured Soul xx is a simple, yet powerful way to take this character. Pump Charisma as high as possible and take Ability Focus at CLs 12 and 15; use Blackguard rebuke attempts to Divine Metamagic your Favoured Soul spells; smash, crush, destroy. Your saves will be through the roof, too. The only downside is that Vecna's favoured weapon is the dagger, and free Focus and Specialization in that is a bit underwhelmed. Now, if you'd be willing to play a Nerullite... I mean, honestly. Winged, scythe-wielding coup-de-gracing death horror. Why not?
General_Ridley 04-14-05, 06:09 PM	I have the core books, Issue 312 of Dragon Magazine, and my friend has BOVD, BOED, I think he has the Eberron campaign setting book, Complete Warrior, Races of destiny, possibly Complete arcane, Races of stone and possibly a few others I'm not remembering. I was also thinking about the wait till 20th to do it, but I wasn't sure whether it was the most statistically viable position (I thought it was, but that there may have been some randomly weird level where it was good).
jstorrie 04-14-05, 06:41 PM	If you're playing a spellcaster, wait as long as possible. If you're playing a gish or divine gishlike, optimize your character to take advantage of Paralyzing Touch and Fear Aura and go lich straight at 11 so that you can put your level 12 feat into Ability Focus: Paralyzing touch. Just make sure to re-enchant your phylactery every few levels to keep its caster level up. You don't want someone coming along and disenchanting the thing while you're out and about.
Tempest Stormwind 04-14-05, 06:53 PM	there is another problem with going lich that my character stumbled upon. Well you have the prereq's, you have craft wondrous items allright and then you need ....4 months to craft the damn philactery and it gets even worse if you were thinking about going demi lich. My actual character Warlock 20/Hexer 4 started at level 6 and never ever managed to find 4 months of spare time ...ok granted, the setting we are playing in is a land at war ...that doesn't exactly help to have tons of spare time, but still. 1) The usual guideline for parties with casters is 2 days downtime for every day of adventuring. This allows for item creation. Alternately, get yourself a homunculus -- one of the Eberron ones works on items while you're out adventuring. 2) How did you meet the "must be able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell" requirement for hexer with a warlock? They don't cast divine spells, nor do they have an invocation that resembles lightning bolt.
General_Ridley 04-16-05, 04:50 PM	I'm going with: Wizard5/Mindbender1/Geometer 2/Loremaster5/Archmage5/Loremaster7, with Lich at 20. Now, If I can get this to go with it, one of my Archmage High Arcanas will be spell like ability (Mazimized and Repeat Spell Fireball, with the possibility of the energy type changing when I use it on different opponents, modified with the Empower Spell Like Ability Feat) All in all each use will do 5d6 + 60 (Ref. Half) and 5d6 + 60 (Ref. Half)
Borin 04-16-05, 05:02 PM	You're unlikely to become a lich at 11th level, because you need 120k for the Phylactery, which you generally don't have at 11th level (according to the wealth/lvl guidelines in DMG you get 120k somewhere between lvl 13 and 14)
jstorrie 04-16-05, 08:06 PM	Any 11th-level character who can't come up with a way to quickly make 20 000gp needs to get his Int examined.
Borin 04-17-05, 05:25 PM	Any 11th-level character who can't come up with a way to quickly make 20 000gp needs to get his Int examined. What do you propose that 11th-level char does, then? Rob a bank or exploit infinite money tricks?
filwinn 07-19-05, 05:52 AM	[snip] 2) How did you meet the "must be able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell" requirement for hexer with a warlock? They don't cast divine spells, nor do they have an invocation that resembles lightning bolt. Mwell, by using the Hexer baseclass from Complete Warrior and not the one from MotW.
Tempest Stormwind 07-19-05, 09:12 AM	Mwell, by using the Hexer baseclass from Complete Warrior and not the one from MotW. That's HEXBLADE, and it neither casts divine spells nor Lightning Bolt. It specializes in enchantment and necromancy spells, and is a half-caster like paladin.