Advice requested for a Theurge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice requested for a Theurge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Grayson
05-04-05, 01:10 AM My character's currently a level 17, just about to take his 18th level character. Elven, with the elven wizard racial levels (1st and 3rd). Class levels are Cleric 3, Wizard 4, MT 10. Yes, Wizard 4. I didn't optimize my feat selection to qualify for any PrC's upon exiting MT.

Feats:
Education (Regional, grants all knowledge skills as class skills)
Scribe Scroll
Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)
Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)
Initiate of Mystra (grants access to some spells, and can cast in dead/wild magic zones)
Magic of the Wild (improves healing in natural areas)
Augment Healing (Improves healing)
Spell Penetration

Looking back, the Magic of the Wild was a painfully bad idea, and the Augment Healing isn't so great. I usually combine Augment Healing with Greater Status, so it lets me pump out reasonable healing when need be (CMW at any range, healing 2d8+14, using quicken to get two cast when need be).

As an old elven cleric/wizard worshipping Mystra, the character is mostly a support character, although in combat situations, he can dish out a lot of offensive spells.

As I'm taking my 18th level right now, I get a Feat, and if I go Wiz5, I gain a free feat. My current idea is to pick up a metamagic feat, something else (craft wondrous perhaps), and then go into Dweomercrafter (as per http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) for 2 levels, and then continue that through Epic.

I was really hoping to find something that would allow me to continue in both arcane and divine, but I definately can't get to Arcane Hierophant, and True Necromancer makes no sense at all for my character.

Optionally, I could go:
18: Wizard
19: Dweomercrafter
20: Dweomercrafter (9th level wizard spells)
21: Contemplative
22: Contemplateive (8th cleric)

Beyond 22.. well, I doubt the game will last that long.

So, I'm unsure as to what Feats would be really beneficial. I realize it's not an "optimized" character, but my group is currently counting on me for all arcane casting, and likely soon for all divine casting as well. So optimizing is getting a bit more important ;)
Mesraic
05-04-05, 07:03 PM try spell casting prodigy in the players guide to faruen. along with divine metamagic. those feats will make you a very viscious spell caster
Grayson
05-04-05, 07:38 PM try spell casting prodigy in the players guide to faruen. along with divine metamagic. those feats will make you a very viscious spell caster

SP is available only at first level.

Divine Metamagic is alright, but the only MM feat I have available is Quicken. With my 11 Charisma, I'd need to boost it by 4 just to be able to use DM Quicken once a day. Not a particularily good use of a Feat for this character.
Mesraic
05-04-05, 08:16 PM true, thought you were building now. as a human you get two first level feats, thats when you take the two SCP. And the divine metamagic doesnt require you to have the feat that you pick with the divine metamagic. as for the charisma. two things either sratch the feat or take the extra turning feat that gives 4 extra turns everytime you take it. so with no cha bonus your looking at 7 uses when you first get it. and later your cha can go up with items. or level points
lonewolf
05-04-05, 08:20 PM go Dweomerkeeper(thats how it is spelled) ASAP

at lvl4 you gain supernatural Spell and can fire off your wishes without XP costs.
enjoy!
;)
Grayson
05-04-05, 08:22 PM true, thought you were building now. as a human you get two first level feats, thats when you take the two SCP. And the divine metamagic doesnt require you to have the feat that you pick with the divine metamagic. as for the charisma. two things either sratch the feat or take the extra turning feat that gives 4 extra turns everytime you take it. so with no cha bonus your looking at 7 uses when you first get it. and later your cha can go up with items. or level points

As a starting feat, SCP is certainly a good choice.

Divine Metamagic has required you to have the feat you use it with for about 8 months now. Check the errata for Complete Divine.

DM doesn't seem particularily worth it to me. It'd be good with a sorcerer or favored soul, but with a low-charisma character.. not so good ;)
Grayson
05-04-05, 08:37 PM go Dweomerkeeper(thats how it is spelled) ASAP

at lvl4 you gain supernatural Spell and can fire off your wishes without XP costs.
enjoy!
;)

Yeah, my mentioning of the PrC to my DM was done with the caveat that I was pretty sure the intent was that they could use an ability without v/s/f/material component, not skipping out on the XP cost. I'm looking for something strong, and something fun to play - not something that's going to ruin the game ;)
lonewolf
05-04-05, 08:45 PM Then I suggest the Fatespinner PrC.
Forcing enemies to reroll their saves is just nasty.
Grayson
05-04-05, 08:58 PM Yeah, the abilities from that PrC are good, but I prefer the Dweomerkeeper's Mantle of Spells. That introduces a considerable amount of diversity, and that's something that this character is big on.
Mr. Dog
05-04-05, 10:08 PM Use nightsticks for 4 turning attempts each.

Rod, Libris Mortis. 7,500 gp.

That will help with divine meta quicken.

Dweomerkeeper good.
Grayson
05-04-05, 10:31 PM Use nightsticks for 4 turning attempts each.

Rod, Libris Mortis. 7,500 gp.

That will help with divine meta quicken.

Dweomerkeeper good.

A fantastic suggestion. I don't think it'll fly with my DM (finding something like that for sale would be almost impossible), but thanks :)
Mr. Dog
05-04-05, 10:55 PM Craft rod feat then. Heh.

They're 4 extra turning attempts per day. A guy in my 25th level game has 20 of them.

He really likes divine metamagic.
RogerWilco
05-05-05, 03:58 AM Not optimal, but might be interesting flavor wise:
- Geomancer
- Wild Mage

Both seem to fit with your build.
Grayson
05-05-05, 04:28 AM Geomancer is interesting, but not something you want to jump into at late levels ;)

Wild mage would be completely opposite of my guy, heh. Mystra isn't fond of wild magic :P
Mesraic
05-05-05, 07:13 PM thanks for correcting me about the divine meatamagic, i was unaware of the errata. as for dwemerkeeper, dont shoot me about the spelling, unless i missed something then it doesnt add to both casting classes at the same time. that weakens you considerably. mantle of spells is nice but if you keep your character even your looking at low level casting by 20th level, so you wouldnt even be able to cast wish. but that's me.
Grayson
05-05-05, 07:32 PM Dweomancer does indeed only gain 1 caster level per level of the class. I'd be taking it at 19 and 20, boosting wizard both times, thus bringing my arcane CL to 17th level, providing access to 9th level spells.

At that point, I'd either continue in that class, or switch over to Contemplative, and get my cleric levels up to 17, which would happen at 24th level. At that point, I'm casting 9s in both classes, and aside from my caster level falling further and further behind, all is well in the world :P

Right now, it looks like I'll be going with Empower and Easy Metamagic (Dragon #325), allowing me to Empower things for +1 level. That qualifies me for Dweomerkeeper, and gives me a solid increase in offensive power. Pick up Efficient Crafting at 21st to scribe scrolls like crazy, and then Greater Spell Penetration (if I can't get an item of it by then) at 24th level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grayson 05-04-05, 01:10 AM	My character's currently a level 17, just about to take his 18th level character. Elven, with the elven wizard racial levels (1st and 3rd). Class levels are Cleric 3, Wizard 4, MT 10. Yes, Wizard 4. I didn't optimize my feat selection to qualify for any PrC's upon exiting MT. Feats: Education (Regional, grants all knowledge skills as class skills) Scribe Scroll Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric) Initiate of Mystra (grants access to some spells, and can cast in dead/wild magic zones) Magic of the Wild (improves healing in natural areas) Augment Healing (Improves healing) Spell Penetration Looking back, the Magic of the Wild was a painfully bad idea, and the Augment Healing isn't so great. I usually combine Augment Healing with Greater Status, so it lets me pump out reasonable healing when need be (CMW at any range, healing 2d8+14, using quicken to get two cast when need be). As an old elven cleric/wizard worshipping Mystra, the character is mostly a support character, although in combat situations, he can dish out a lot of offensive spells. As I'm taking my 18th level right now, I get a Feat, and if I go Wiz5, I gain a free feat. My current idea is to pick up a metamagic feat, something else (craft wondrous perhaps), and then go into Dweomercrafter (as per http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a) for 2 levels, and then continue that through Epic. I was really hoping to find something that would allow me to continue in both arcane and divine, but I definately can't get to Arcane Hierophant, and True Necromancer makes no sense at all for my character. Optionally, I could go: 18: Wizard 19: Dweomercrafter 20: Dweomercrafter (9th level wizard spells) 21: Contemplative 22: Contemplateive (8th cleric) Beyond 22.. well, I doubt the game will last that long. So, I'm unsure as to what Feats would be really beneficial. I realize it's not an "optimized" character, but my group is currently counting on me for all arcane casting, and likely soon for all divine casting as well. So optimizing is getting a bit more important ;)
Mesraic 05-04-05, 07:03 PM	try spell casting prodigy in the players guide to faruen. along with divine metamagic. those feats will make you a very viscious spell caster
Grayson 05-04-05, 07:38 PM	try spell casting prodigy in the players guide to faruen. along with divine metamagic. those feats will make you a very viscious spell caster SP is available only at first level. Divine Metamagic is alright, but the only MM feat I have available is Quicken. With my 11 Charisma, I'd need to boost it by 4 just to be able to use DM Quicken once a day. Not a particularily good use of a Feat for this character.
Mesraic 05-04-05, 08:16 PM	true, thought you were building now. as a human you get two first level feats, thats when you take the two SCP. And the divine metamagic doesnt require you to have the feat that you pick with the divine metamagic. as for the charisma. two things either sratch the feat or take the extra turning feat that gives 4 extra turns everytime you take it. so with no cha bonus your looking at 7 uses when you first get it. and later your cha can go up with items. or level points
lonewolf 05-04-05, 08:20 PM	go Dweomerkeeper(thats how it is spelled) ASAP at lvl4 you gain supernatural Spell and can fire off your wishes without XP costs. enjoy! ;)
Grayson 05-04-05, 08:22 PM	true, thought you were building now. as a human you get two first level feats, thats when you take the two SCP. And the divine metamagic doesnt require you to have the feat that you pick with the divine metamagic. as for the charisma. two things either sratch the feat or take the extra turning feat that gives 4 extra turns everytime you take it. so with no cha bonus your looking at 7 uses when you first get it. and later your cha can go up with items. or level points As a starting feat, SCP is certainly a good choice. Divine Metamagic has required you to have the feat you use it with for about 8 months now. Check the errata for Complete Divine. DM doesn't seem particularily worth it to me. It'd be good with a sorcerer or favored soul, but with a low-charisma character.. not so good ;)
Grayson 05-04-05, 08:37 PM	go Dweomerkeeper(thats how it is spelled) ASAP at lvl4 you gain supernatural Spell and can fire off your wishes without XP costs. enjoy! ;) Yeah, my mentioning of the PrC to my DM was done with the caveat that I was pretty sure the intent was that they could use an ability without v/s/f/material component, not skipping out on the XP cost. I'm looking for something strong, and something fun to play - not something that's going to ruin the game ;)
lonewolf 05-04-05, 08:45 PM	Then I suggest the Fatespinner PrC. Forcing enemies to reroll their saves is just nasty.
Grayson 05-04-05, 08:58 PM	Yeah, the abilities from that PrC are good, but I prefer the Dweomerkeeper's Mantle of Spells. That introduces a considerable amount of diversity, and that's something that this character is big on.
Mr. Dog 05-04-05, 10:08 PM	Use nightsticks for 4 turning attempts each. Rod, Libris Mortis. 7,500 gp. That will help with divine meta quicken. Dweomerkeeper good.
Grayson 05-04-05, 10:31 PM	Use nightsticks for 4 turning attempts each. Rod, Libris Mortis. 7,500 gp. That will help with divine meta quicken. Dweomerkeeper good. A fantastic suggestion. I don't think it'll fly with my DM (finding something like that for sale would be almost impossible), but thanks :)
Mr. Dog 05-04-05, 10:55 PM	Craft rod feat then. Heh. They're 4 extra turning attempts per day. A guy in my 25th level game has 20 of them. He really likes divine metamagic.
RogerWilco 05-05-05, 03:58 AM	Not optimal, but might be interesting flavor wise: - Geomancer - Wild Mage Both seem to fit with your build.
Grayson 05-05-05, 04:28 AM	Geomancer is interesting, but not something you want to jump into at late levels ;) Wild mage would be completely opposite of my guy, heh. Mystra isn't fond of wild magic :P
Mesraic 05-05-05, 07:13 PM	thanks for correcting me about the divine meatamagic, i was unaware of the errata. as for dwemerkeeper, dont shoot me about the spelling, unless i missed something then it doesnt add to both casting classes at the same time. that weakens you considerably. mantle of spells is nice but if you keep your character even your looking at low level casting by 20th level, so you wouldnt even be able to cast wish. but that's me.
Grayson 05-05-05, 07:32 PM	Dweomancer does indeed only gain 1 caster level per level of the class. I'd be taking it at 19 and 20, boosting wizard both times, thus bringing my arcane CL to 17th level, providing access to 9th level spells. At that point, I'd either continue in that class, or switch over to Contemplative, and get my cleric levels up to 17, which would happen at 24th level. At that point, I'm casting 9s in both classes, and aside from my caster level falling further and further behind, all is well in the world :P Right now, it looks like I'll be going with Empower and Easy Metamagic (Dragon #325), allowing me to Empower things for +1 level. That qualifies me for Dweomerkeeper, and gives me a solid increase in offensive power. Pick up Efficient Crafting at 21st to scribe scrolls like crazy, and then Greater Spell Penetration (if I can't get an item of it by then) at 24th level.