Advice requested on a Bard/Druid/Dervish character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice requested on a Bard/Druid/Dervish character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
emileeza
06-16-05, 12:40 AM Hello all,
I play a female human bard4/druid3/dervish3 in an online 3.5 Planescape game. I had started out as a bard simply because I wanted something different for a change. After a couple of levels, an in-story event made it feasible for her to take a level of druid. (She was given special abilities by an elder treant as a reward for helping ease his pain brought on by a magical blight - she sang him lullabys (made a REALLY high perform check) :) )

(Forgive me if I mix my pronouns - it's late)

I was content to continue with druid and make that my place in the party, but then a new player joined who was a full druid (We were about 5th or 6th level by then.) No matter how nice a multiclassed character is, they simply never seem to have anything as good as a single class of the same character level. So this new guy took the position I had planned to be, and really cut into my roleplaying niche as well. I had been the party's connection to the earth with my special abilities and class abilities, but he just took that over.

So, since she was married to the paladin, she just kind of took the position of being by his side and following him around, trying to find a new place in the party other than Mrs. Paladin. She had gotten a magical scimitar from a fallen druid earlier in the campaign and concentrated on melee fighting alongside her husband. That's when I discovered the Dervish Prestige class. I took a couple of levels in it since I qualified nicely. it seemed to fit well, especially after my scimitar broke and was gifted with twin +2 scimitars for righting some wrong somewhere. So she has this amazing ability to make 3 attacks with moves between them. It was very nice in a recent battle when she was able to hit 3 different bad guys in one round who were not near each other. Next level of Dervish will give her Cleave could feasibly give her 6 attacks if she killed the target with each normal attack.

So, here's my dilemma. In the time it has taken to get the 3 levels of dervish (and we get very little XP IMO) that was the ONLY battle in which she got to do the Whirlwind Attack. The rest of the party consists of an elven archer with an Oathbow and archer feats out the wazoo, a sorceress with an air elemental familiar, the full single class druid and an arcane desciple. They all basically throw out these spells and killer arrows at any target before the paladin and I get a chance to strike. One big battle that comes to mind had us in the path of huge beasts being ridden by the bud guys we were after. They were riding full speed toward us. The paladin and I readied our weapons and waited for them to get near enough to strike... the last one to fall actuall fell at the feet of the paladin before we ever had a chance to swing a sword. The missile weapons had taken them all out before melee could happen. This seems to happen all the time actually. As I said, in 3 levels of dervish, I've used the special attack ONCE.

So, what should I do? Take a level in bard again instead and just fire a measly magic missile (don't have that spell yet - never was fond of spell-casting bards), or just stand back and sing, or retire and tend a grove or what? I know there is more to playing than battle and I love the roleplaying our group gets into. I just wish I could actually DO something.

We're currently in the middle of the Modron March as a backdrop to the campaign with smaller adventures thrown in to give us tasks to do to try to feel helpful in the cause of saving the Multiverse. Our next stop seems to be the Abyss. I'm figuring there will be some combat there duh ;) so we'll see how my character deals with things. It's just tough to be playing what amounts to 3 3rd level characters when everyone else is 10th level with 10th level abilities.

Anyone got any ideas or recommendations for my next levels, feats, skills etc?

P.S. Here's one other thing I didn't mention - she has a +6 to CHA based checks due to a gift from a patron god-like entity (but I had never put any ranks into diplomacy or that sort of thing since the guys did all the talking.)

Thanks for any replies.
Emileeza
Torack
06-16-05, 05:21 AM I'd talk to the party and tell them yours and the paladins plight. IMO this has little to do with Character Optimization and more with the loss of a position within the party.

I'd also consider to start acting as a scout. This will allow you to get to the fight before the others, and maybe have the paladin come along for the ride.

You could also ask your DM to start tossing some monsters in with spell resistance as they seem to be the crux on which your party is currently relying on.
emileeza
06-16-05, 06:05 PM I have talked to the DM and other players about it. Perhaps that's one reason we're on our way to the Abyss. I anticipate more melee combat. I will ask for more spell-resistant opponents.

As for scouting ahead, I'd be more than happy to, but the druid just changes into a bird and flies over an area or becomes a rat and scurries from room to room etc. When we were in an actual building, I did go forward and search rooms, which actually ended up having me miss the major battle since the others were ambushed from a balcony in the main room.

I'm not trying to whine about party position. I just want to have a character that contributes to the party. She has Bardic Knowledge which is handy now and then, but with just 4 levels in Bard, it's not much of an ability compared to what others can contribute.

My question was basically what class would you concentrate on to continue with? Should I just keep going with the dervish levels and deal with no real non-melee action, or add more levels to another class like bard to get more Bardic Knowledge and spells?
Phaxi
06-16-05, 06:18 PM You do qualify for Arcane Hierophant from the races of the wild (if you got 8 ranks in knowledge (arcana) and knowledge (nature), it would be better than taking bard or druid levels at least, since it advance boths casting plus wildshaping.

With 7 levels already taken in caster-classes, i dont think it would be that wise to continue advancing as a dervish.
UMiskatonic
06-16-05, 06:32 PM Fochluchan Lyricist from Complete Adventurer is designed for Bard/Druids. Since you are most of the way there, you might want to check it out.

Arcane Heirophant is also excellent.

With high charisma, Arcane Duellist might also be quite good.
Phaxi
06-16-05, 06:38 PM Fochluchan Lyricist from Complete Adventurer is designed for Bard/Druids. Since you are most of the way there, you might want to check it out.

Arcane Heirophant is also excellent.

With high charisma, Arcane Duellist might also be quite good.

The problem with Foclucan lyrist is that she have evasion, and with so few levels left (and already so many different classes), i dont think picking 2 rogue (or something else giving evasion) levels would help very much.

If she could change the dervish levels to rogue, it would be great, yes.
Otto the Bugbear
06-16-05, 07:45 PM I'd say to stay with the dervish. Your BAB is only 2 points behind a typical melee character, which isn't insurmountable. If you do choose that path, don't go above 4 levels in either bard or druid, to maintain that BAB progression. If you feel that you can go down by 3 BAB points, then get up to druid 5, you'll see why in a sec. Stay in Dervish until at least level 7, then decide if you want to get the Thousand Cuts ability. Personally, I think it's only worth it if you think 1/day is good.

I personally like getting Thief-Acrobat with dervish, but it's not really a good idea for your character.

If it were me, I'd do this:

Bard 4
Druid 3
Dervish 3 - this is where you're at right now.
Dervish up to 5
Druid up to 5 (wildshape)
Warshaper 4
Dervish up to 7
(Bard 4 / Druid 5 / Dervish 7 / Warshaper 4)

Since you're already so close to gaining Wildshape, just go ahead and get it. If nothing else, it's an easy get-away in a pinch (especially with that movement boost Dervish gives). That leads right into Warshaper, with it's ability boost, reach (whirlwind attack or dervish dance can be even more fun now), and of course, you become a self healing machine (12 hp per round at times*). Then finish up with Dervish to 7 and gain a decent bonus to fighting defensively. If you wanted something else in those last 2 levels, just go for it.

Oh, and let's not forget, Dervish has PERFORM as a class skill. The bard's fascinate ability is determined by ranks in perform, right? See where this is leading?

The character ends up with a BAB of +17 at level 20, which is still pretty good for a melee character. Saves are going to be nice:base F +11, R+11, W +14 (I think).

Wow, this is looking not too shabby now. I'm a little surprised it's turning out that good. Perhaps the problem is the level you find yourself at right now. With no clear focus, it feels like you're behind the curve.

edit: Another point to consider is Summon Nature's Ally III. Summoning Dire Weasels is a good tactic regardless of level. They're Con drain is harsh, and any enemy that allows it to happen certainly isn't long for this world. In addition to that, there are certainly plently of utility druid spells that you can take where the other druid doesn't.

So, that's my recomendation.

Cheers

Otto :)

* once your fast healing brings your damage total down so you can make the concentration check. See Warshaper entry in CW

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
emileeza 06-16-05, 12:40 AM	Hello all, I play a female human bard4/druid3/dervish3 in an online 3.5 Planescape game. I had started out as a bard simply because I wanted something different for a change. After a couple of levels, an in-story event made it feasible for her to take a level of druid. (She was given special abilities by an elder treant as a reward for helping ease his pain brought on by a magical blight - she sang him lullabys (made a REALLY high perform check) :) ) (Forgive me if I mix my pronouns - it's late) I was content to continue with druid and make that my place in the party, but then a new player joined who was a full druid (We were about 5th or 6th level by then.) No matter how nice a multiclassed character is, they simply never seem to have anything as good as a single class of the same character level. So this new guy took the position I had planned to be, and really cut into my roleplaying niche as well. I had been the party's connection to the earth with my special abilities and class abilities, but he just took that over. So, since she was married to the paladin, she just kind of took the position of being by his side and following him around, trying to find a new place in the party other than Mrs. Paladin. She had gotten a magical scimitar from a fallen druid earlier in the campaign and concentrated on melee fighting alongside her husband. That's when I discovered the Dervish Prestige class. I took a couple of levels in it since I qualified nicely. it seemed to fit well, especially after my scimitar broke and was gifted with twin +2 scimitars for righting some wrong somewhere. So she has this amazing ability to make 3 attacks with moves between them. It was very nice in a recent battle when she was able to hit 3 different bad guys in one round who were not near each other. Next level of Dervish will give her Cleave could feasibly give her 6 attacks if she killed the target with each normal attack. So, here's my dilemma. In the time it has taken to get the 3 levels of dervish (and we get very little XP IMO) that was the ONLY battle in which she got to do the Whirlwind Attack. The rest of the party consists of an elven archer with an Oathbow and archer feats out the wazoo, a sorceress with an air elemental familiar, the full single class druid and an arcane desciple. They all basically throw out these spells and killer arrows at any target before the paladin and I get a chance to strike. One big battle that comes to mind had us in the path of huge beasts being ridden by the bud guys we were after. They were riding full speed toward us. The paladin and I readied our weapons and waited for them to get near enough to strike... the last one to fall actuall fell at the feet of the paladin before we ever had a chance to swing a sword. The missile weapons had taken them all out before melee could happen. This seems to happen all the time actually. As I said, in 3 levels of dervish, I've used the special attack ONCE. So, what should I do? Take a level in bard again instead and just fire a measly magic missile (don't have that spell yet - never was fond of spell-casting bards), or just stand back and sing, or retire and tend a grove or what? I know there is more to playing than battle and I love the roleplaying our group gets into. I just wish I could actually DO something. We're currently in the middle of the Modron March as a backdrop to the campaign with smaller adventures thrown in to give us tasks to do to try to feel helpful in the cause of saving the Multiverse. Our next stop seems to be the Abyss. I'm figuring there will be some combat there duh ;) so we'll see how my character deals with things. It's just tough to be playing what amounts to 3 3rd level characters when everyone else is 10th level with 10th level abilities. Anyone got any ideas or recommendations for my next levels, feats, skills etc? P.S. Here's one other thing I didn't mention - she has a +6 to CHA based checks due to a gift from a patron god-like entity (but I had never put any ranks into diplomacy or that sort of thing since the guys did all the talking.) Thanks for any replies. Emileeza
Torack 06-16-05, 05:21 AM	I'd talk to the party and tell them yours and the paladins plight. IMO this has little to do with Character Optimization and more with the loss of a position within the party. I'd also consider to start acting as a scout. This will allow you to get to the fight before the others, and maybe have the paladin come along for the ride. You could also ask your DM to start tossing some monsters in with spell resistance as they seem to be the crux on which your party is currently relying on.
emileeza 06-16-05, 06:05 PM	I have talked to the DM and other players about it. Perhaps that's one reason we're on our way to the Abyss. I anticipate more melee combat. I will ask for more spell-resistant opponents. As for scouting ahead, I'd be more than happy to, but the druid just changes into a bird and flies over an area or becomes a rat and scurries from room to room etc. When we were in an actual building, I did go forward and search rooms, which actually ended up having me miss the major battle since the others were ambushed from a balcony in the main room. I'm not trying to whine about party position. I just want to have a character that contributes to the party. She has Bardic Knowledge which is handy now and then, but with just 4 levels in Bard, it's not much of an ability compared to what others can contribute. My question was basically what class would you concentrate on to continue with? Should I just keep going with the dervish levels and deal with no real non-melee action, or add more levels to another class like bard to get more Bardic Knowledge and spells?
Phaxi 06-16-05, 06:18 PM	You do qualify for Arcane Hierophant from the races of the wild (if you got 8 ranks in knowledge (arcana) and knowledge (nature), it would be better than taking bard or druid levels at least, since it advance boths casting plus wildshaping. With 7 levels already taken in caster-classes, i dont think it would be that wise to continue advancing as a dervish.
UMiskatonic 06-16-05, 06:32 PM	Fochluchan Lyricist from Complete Adventurer is designed for Bard/Druids. Since you are most of the way there, you might want to check it out. Arcane Heirophant is also excellent. With high charisma, Arcane Duellist might also be quite good.
Phaxi 06-16-05, 06:38 PM	Fochluchan Lyricist from Complete Adventurer is designed for Bard/Druids. Since you are most of the way there, you might want to check it out. Arcane Heirophant is also excellent. With high charisma, Arcane Duellist might also be quite good. The problem with Foclucan lyrist is that she have evasion, and with so few levels left (and already so many different classes), i dont think picking 2 rogue (or something else giving evasion) levels would help very much. If she could change the dervish levels to rogue, it would be great, yes.
Otto the Bugbear 06-16-05, 07:45 PM	I'd say to stay with the dervish. Your BAB is only 2 points behind a typical melee character, which isn't insurmountable. If you do choose that path, don't go above 4 levels in either bard or druid, to maintain that BAB progression. If you feel that you can go down by 3 BAB points, then get up to druid 5, you'll see why in a sec. Stay in Dervish until at least level 7, then decide if you want to get the Thousand Cuts ability. Personally, I think it's only worth it if you think 1/day is good. I personally like getting Thief-Acrobat with dervish, but it's not really a good idea for your character. If it were me, I'd do this: Bard 4 Druid 3 Dervish 3 - this is where you're at right now. Dervish up to 5 Druid up to 5 (wildshape) Warshaper 4 Dervish up to 7 (Bard 4 / Druid 5 / Dervish 7 / Warshaper 4) Since you're already so close to gaining Wildshape, just go ahead and get it. If nothing else, it's an easy get-away in a pinch (especially with that movement boost Dervish gives). That leads right into Warshaper, with it's ability boost, reach (whirlwind attack or dervish dance can be even more fun now), and of course, you become a self healing machine (12 hp per round at times). Then finish up with Dervish to 7 and gain a decent bonus to fighting defensively. If you wanted something else in those last 2 levels, just go for it. Oh, and let's not forget, Dervish has PERFORM as a class skill. The bard's fascinate ability is determined by ranks in perform, right? See where this is leading? The character ends up with a BAB of +17 at level 20, which is still pretty good for a melee character. Saves are going to be nice:base F +11, R+11, W +14 (I think). Wow, this is looking not too shabby now. I'm a little surprised it's turning out that good. Perhaps the problem is the level you find yourself at right now. With no clear focus, it feels like you're behind the curve. edit: Another point to consider is Summon Nature's Ally III. Summoning Dire Weasels is a good tactic regardless of level. They're Con drain is harsh, and any enemy that allows it to happen certainly isn't long for this world. In addition to that, there are certainly plently of utility druid spells that you can take where the other druid doesn't. So, that's my recomendation. Cheers Otto :) once your fast healing brings your damage total down so you can make the concentration check. See Warshaper entry in CW