Advice: the new shifter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice: the new shifter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DocNessuno
02-27-06, 03:31 PM Premise:
I loved the 3.0 shifter, his versatility, being able to face anything withouth too much trouble
You are a wizard / Cleric? Golem form
Need invisibility? WoW
Healing? Fast healing / Regeneration form
Mind affecting? Undead
Need to flee or get somwhere? Ethereal form and meld with the walls
Etc.

Now i miss that feeling, but i cannot play again a shifter, because a) we moved to 3.5 and B) i hate to play the same concept twice (so no MoMF)

So i am looking for the advice of this board, to find something wich will give me the same feeling, not necessarily a shapeshifting class but something able to face most challanges without any fear

Allowed material:
Any D&D 3.5 official book
Any D&D 3.5 official WoTC Web Material
Any D&D 3.0 official book
Any D&D 3.0 official WoTC Web Material

Exceptions:
All 3.0 things that have been officialy tweaked-reprinted in 3.5 will follow the 3.5 version
Evrything that is related to a setting different from Faerun is not allowed (example: warforged).

Rules:
32 point buy
Max 2 base classes, Max 2 PRC
Only base classes from 3.5 PH and 3.5 EPH
No rules variant or optional rule ecxept 'psionic is different'
No extreme cheesness, game-breaking combos or pun-puns
Lvl 20

Warings:
Psionic powers (1)
Psionic items without having psionic powers (2)
>20% total cost of items comes from psionic ones (1)
>50% total cost of items comes from psionic ones (1)
Any race outside PH or FRCS (1)
Any race with or ECL >2 or racial HD (1)
Each template (1)
Anything from BoVD (2)
Anything from BoED (2)
Each 'dual' PRC (Mystic theurge, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, etc.) (1)
Just 1 level in a class or PRC (1)
Taking the 2nd PRC before maxing out lvls in the other one (1)
Persistent spells (1)

Goals:
Good infiltrator (able to get in and out almost anywhere regardless of defences)
Versatile (able to have an answer to overcome/avoid almost anything )
Above-average in combat
High defences against magic (Able to survive a Wiz20 who starts with timestop and focus on the character)
Defences against mind-affecting
Different combat options (able to fight both in 'low power' mode, to pass trough long fights with weak enemies without expending significant power, and 'full power' mode, to overcome boss fight and tough enemies)
Low number of warnings
Stylish

Thanks in advance
Prominence
02-27-06, 03:35 PM Sounds great, now all you have to do is post a build you like and we'll help you go from there, and give you advice on your concept.

by the way: please read the posting rules. Furthermore, this is not a challenge, this is a lazy endevour to get someone else to make a character for you.

Anyway, Druid 20 does everything you asked.
Slyver
02-27-06, 04:09 PM I know its the current trend to poo poo anyone who asks for any build advice without posting a build and generally I agree with it, but he actually provided a ton of information on specifically what he is looking for and what we can use to build it. If more posts were like this there wouldn't be that requirement in the FAQ.

So, you might consider something with chameleon. You might consider one level of ranger so you can always track, and one of rogue so you can always open locks and disable traps before entry, maybe some fighter and/or cleric (if you want divine metamagic) you can be about as versatile as a character can be.

Maybe;

Changeling or human

Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Cleric 1/Chameleon 10/xx

xx = warshaper maybe if changeling, or more rogue maybe if human or whatever. You might want to look in the chameleon handbook (or whatever it is called) for some ideas. I'll take a look and see if I can google it.

Edit: Here it is: Chameleon compilation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360082)

Slyver
Fwib
02-27-06, 04:23 PM No changeling, OP said nothing related to another gameworld than Faerun.
(although, since Faerun has a fair number of doppelgangers, lycanthropes and even Smith-gods and PrCs with a robot-like creature as a follower, I should think that Changelings, Shifters and Warforged might all fit right in.
DocNessuno
02-27-06, 05:21 PM @Prominence:
I have read the FAQ and posting rules, and i posted all the details i could think about. I cannot post a basic build because that's exactly what i am looking for.
From the Faqs:
First off it can be very rude to simply demand that someone make you a character. Additionally since there are so many ways to make a character it is best if you supply what you were thinking about in the first place and let people give you ideas from there. And finally there is no such thing as a free lunch, so you need to put in some work yourself.
Q: Well, what details, about my character, should I include?
A: Well include any things you have already decided on, like class or race or feats. Also include things you are thinking about and make sure the reader can tell the difference. Here is a basic list:
Race and Class [part of the question]
Stats if you have them or point buy if you do it that way. [included]
Level to build at or if you want a level by level build. [included]
Concept –like if you want to make a spell caster specializing in touch spells, or a trip attack specialist. [included]
Your post was rude and pointless.

@Slyver:
Ty, the build you have suggested is out of the parameters i set (4 classes), but i like the chameleon idea, but seems it need a bit of tweaking to make it fit. i'm currently diggin in the link you have posted.
Slyver
02-27-06, 06:20 PM Yes, my appologies, forgot about the 2 class parameter. Rogue 2/Hexblade 3/chameleon 10/occult slayer 5 (per Todd from the link I posted) fits the parameters, has great resistances and a full compliment of abilities.

Slyver
Surreal
02-28-06, 01:02 AM What are the "warings" that you have listed? (and the associated numbers in brackets?)

For sheer versatility, a rogue/chameleon is probably the simplest route.

Another route is to take classes/templates that stack up your immunities (PrC list that grant immunites here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=179776)).
Kurama Youko
02-28-06, 08:12 AM heres a old build i did a while back, i also have a alternative version, but the alt loses the ability to take rapid strike which makes this one better. Using any race the build goes as follows but if you use human or strongheart halfling you can get the feat requirements faster. This build focuses around the Primeval PrC found in Frostburn and ends with Warshaper

Level Class Levels BAB Fort Ref Will Avg HP Abilities Gained & Recommend Feats.
1 Bar1 1 2 0 0 12 Rage 1/day, Fast Movement, Illiteracy, Feat (Tireless PGtF)
2 Ran1 2 4 2 0 16 1st Favored Enemy, Wild Empathy, Track
3 Bar2 3 5 2 0 22 Uncanny Dodge, Feat (Toughness)
4 Ran2 4 6 3 0 26 Combat Style, Ability Increase
5 Ftr1 5 8 3 0 31 Bonus Feat (Power Attack)
6 Ftr2 6 9 3 0 36 Bonus Feat (Cleave), Feat (Self Sufficent)
7 Ran3 7 9 3 1 40 Endurance
8 Bar3 8 9 4 2 46 Trap Sense +1, Ability Increase
9 Prm1 9 11 4 2 51 Primeval Form 1/day, Animal Empathy, Feat (Extra Rage)
10 Prm2 10 12 4 2 56 Regression 1, Low-Light Vision
11 Prm3 11 12 5 3 61 Feral Power 1
12 Prm4 12 13 5 3 66 Primeval Form 2/day, Feat (Improved Natural Weapon Claw), Ability Increase
13 Prm5 13 13 5 3 71 Regression 2, Scent
14 Prm6 14 14 6 4 76 Feral Power 2
15 Prm7 15 14 6 4 81 Primeval Form 3/day, Feat (Improved Natural Weapon (Bite)
16 Prm8 16 15 6 4 86 Regression 3, Fast Movement, Ability Increase
17 Prm9 17 15 7 4 91 Feral Power 3
18 Prm10 18 16 7 4 96 Primeval Form 4/day, Primeval Shapechanger, Feat (Rapid Strike Claw)
19 Wsh1 18 18 7 4 100 Morphic Weapons, Morphic Immunities
20 Wsh2 19 19 8 5 104 Morphic Body, Ability Increase

Avg HP and the Saves don't factor in Ability modifiers.
Also after reading the rules on fatigue and Rage, tireless may not be nesscesary.
DocNessuno
02-28-06, 01:42 PM Thanks to evryone who answered

@ Kurama Youko:
Your build is out of the parameters too.. and seems like a pure melee build, with just some more skills.

@ Surreal:
Warning are things my DM will allow but that he will dislike, higer is the value esayer he will refuse the character.

@ Slyver:
Lol, each time you post a build it is not viable (hexblade not being a base class from PH or XPH), but at the same tame you suggest very nice PRCs, i took a look at the occult slayer and i like it, AMF at high lvl is nasty

Now some words, i have searched the forum for the whole day, looking for hints and that's what i came up with so far:
Chameleon seems the perfect PRC for this concept, but i think i'ts missing the sheer power to sustain high lvl fights within the parameters of my post, unless going for persistent spell + divine metamagic + LOTS of extra turning, wich would be something my DM will probably not allow.
Occult slayer is exactly the opposite, very nice PRc but leaks the versatility and infiltration skills.
I have found also a nice race, Voldoni, from unapprochable east, wich for 2 ECL gives you the plant type, the one with the best immunities after the undead one.
I'm still brainstorming so any ideas would be appreciatet but thanks to the posts here (and to Slyver) i'm beginning to see some light
DocNessuno
02-28-06, 02:16 PM 2x post

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DocNessuno 02-27-06, 03:31 PM	Premise: I loved the 3.0 shifter, his versatility, being able to face anything withouth too much trouble You are a wizard / Cleric? Golem form Need invisibility? WoW Healing? Fast healing / Regeneration form Mind affecting? Undead Need to flee or get somwhere? Ethereal form and meld with the walls Etc. Now i miss that feeling, but i cannot play again a shifter, because a) we moved to 3.5 and B) i hate to play the same concept twice (so no MoMF) So i am looking for the advice of this board, to find something wich will give me the same feeling, not necessarily a shapeshifting class but something able to face most challanges without any fear Allowed material: Any D&D 3.5 official book Any D&D 3.5 official WoTC Web Material Any D&D 3.0 official book Any D&D 3.0 official WoTC Web Material Exceptions: All 3.0 things that have been officialy tweaked-reprinted in 3.5 will follow the 3.5 version Evrything that is related to a setting different from Faerun is not allowed (example: warforged). Rules: 32 point buy Max 2 base classes, Max 2 PRC Only base classes from 3.5 PH and 3.5 EPH No rules variant or optional rule ecxept 'psionic is different' No extreme cheesness, game-breaking combos or pun-puns Lvl 20 Warings: Psionic powers (1) Psionic items without having psionic powers (2) >20% total cost of items comes from psionic ones (1) >50% total cost of items comes from psionic ones (1) Any race outside PH or FRCS (1) Any race with or ECL >2 or racial HD (1) Each template (1) Anything from BoVD (2) Anything from BoED (2) Each 'dual' PRC (Mystic theurge, eldritch knight, arcane trickster, etc.) (1) Just 1 level in a class or PRC (1) Taking the 2nd PRC before maxing out lvls in the other one (1) Persistent spells (1) Goals: Good infiltrator (able to get in and out almost anywhere regardless of defences) Versatile (able to have an answer to overcome/avoid almost anything ) Above-average in combat High defences against magic (Able to survive a Wiz20 who starts with timestop and focus on the character) Defences against mind-affecting Different combat options (able to fight both in 'low power' mode, to pass trough long fights with weak enemies without expending significant power, and 'full power' mode, to overcome boss fight and tough enemies) Low number of warnings Stylish Thanks in advance
Prominence 02-27-06, 03:35 PM	Sounds great, now all you have to do is post a build you like and we'll help you go from there, and give you advice on your concept. by the way: please read the posting rules. Furthermore, this is not a challenge, this is a lazy endevour to get someone else to make a character for you. Anyway, Druid 20 does everything you asked.
Slyver 02-27-06, 04:09 PM	I know its the current trend to poo poo anyone who asks for any build advice without posting a build and generally I agree with it, but he actually provided a ton of information on specifically what he is looking for and what we can use to build it. If more posts were like this there wouldn't be that requirement in the FAQ. So, you might consider something with chameleon. You might consider one level of ranger so you can always track, and one of rogue so you can always open locks and disable traps before entry, maybe some fighter and/or cleric (if you want divine metamagic) you can be about as versatile as a character can be. Maybe; Changeling or human Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Cleric 1/Chameleon 10/xx xx = warshaper maybe if changeling, or more rogue maybe if human or whatever. You might want to look in the chameleon handbook (or whatever it is called) for some ideas. I'll take a look and see if I can google it. Edit: Here it is: Chameleon compilation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360082) Slyver
Fwib 02-27-06, 04:23 PM	No changeling, OP said nothing related to another gameworld than Faerun. (although, since Faerun has a fair number of doppelgangers, lycanthropes and even Smith-gods and PrCs with a robot-like creature as a follower, I should think that Changelings, Shifters and Warforged might all fit right in.
DocNessuno 02-27-06, 05:21 PM	@Prominence: I have read the FAQ and posting rules, and i posted all the details i could think about. I cannot post a basic build because that's exactly what i am looking for. From the Faqs: First off it can be very rude to simply demand that someone make you a character. Additionally since there are so many ways to make a character it is best if you supply what you were thinking about in the first place and let people give you ideas from there. And finally there is no such thing as a free lunch, so you need to put in some work yourself. Q: Well, what details, about my character, should I include? A: Well include any things you have already decided on, like class or race or feats. Also include things you are thinking about and make sure the reader can tell the difference. Here is a basic list: Race and Class [part of the question] Stats if you have them or point buy if you do it that way. [included] Level to build at or if you want a level by level build. [included] Concept –like if you want to make a spell caster specializing in touch spells, or a trip attack specialist. [included] Your post was rude and pointless. @Slyver: Ty, the build you have suggested is out of the parameters i set (4 classes), but i like the chameleon idea, but seems it need a bit of tweaking to make it fit. i'm currently diggin in the link you have posted.
Slyver 02-27-06, 06:20 PM	Yes, my appologies, forgot about the 2 class parameter. Rogue 2/Hexblade 3/chameleon 10/occult slayer 5 (per Todd from the link I posted) fits the parameters, has great resistances and a full compliment of abilities. Slyver
Surreal 02-28-06, 01:02 AM	What are the "warings" that you have listed? (and the associated numbers in brackets?) For sheer versatility, a rogue/chameleon is probably the simplest route. Another route is to take classes/templates that stack up your immunities (PrC list that grant immunites here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=179776)).
Kurama Youko 02-28-06, 08:12 AM	heres a old build i did a while back, i also have a alternative version, but the alt loses the ability to take rapid strike which makes this one better. Using any race the build goes as follows but if you use human or strongheart halfling you can get the feat requirements faster. This build focuses around the Primeval PrC found in Frostburn and ends with Warshaper Level Class Levels BAB Fort Ref Will Avg HP Abilities Gained & Recommend Feats. 1 Bar1 1 2 0 0 12 Rage 1/day, Fast Movement, Illiteracy, Feat (Tireless PGtF) 2 Ran1 2 4 2 0 16 1st Favored Enemy, Wild Empathy, Track 3 Bar2 3 5 2 0 22 Uncanny Dodge, Feat (Toughness) 4 Ran2 4 6 3 0 26 Combat Style, Ability Increase 5 Ftr1 5 8 3 0 31 Bonus Feat (Power Attack) 6 Ftr2 6 9 3 0 36 Bonus Feat (Cleave), Feat (Self Sufficent) 7 Ran3 7 9 3 1 40 Endurance 8 Bar3 8 9 4 2 46 Trap Sense +1, Ability Increase 9 Prm1 9 11 4 2 51 Primeval Form 1/day, Animal Empathy, Feat (Extra Rage) 10 Prm2 10 12 4 2 56 Regression 1, Low-Light Vision 11 Prm3 11 12 5 3 61 Feral Power 1 12 Prm4 12 13 5 3 66 Primeval Form 2/day, Feat (Improved Natural Weapon Claw), Ability Increase 13 Prm5 13 13 5 3 71 Regression 2, Scent 14 Prm6 14 14 6 4 76 Feral Power 2 15 Prm7 15 14 6 4 81 Primeval Form 3/day, Feat (Improved Natural Weapon (Bite) 16 Prm8 16 15 6 4 86 Regression 3, Fast Movement, Ability Increase 17 Prm9 17 15 7 4 91 Feral Power 3 18 Prm10 18 16 7 4 96 Primeval Form 4/day, Primeval Shapechanger, Feat (Rapid Strike Claw) 19 Wsh1 18 18 7 4 100 Morphic Weapons, Morphic Immunities 20 Wsh2 19 19 8 5 104 Morphic Body, Ability Increase Avg HP and the Saves don't factor in Ability modifiers. Also after reading the rules on fatigue and Rage, tireless may not be nesscesary.
DocNessuno 02-28-06, 01:42 PM	Thanks to evryone who answered @ Kurama Youko: Your build is out of the parameters too.. and seems like a pure melee build, with just some more skills. @ Surreal: Warning are things my DM will allow but that he will dislike, higer is the value esayer he will refuse the character. @ Slyver: Lol, each time you post a build it is not viable (hexblade not being a base class from PH or XPH), but at the same tame you suggest very nice PRCs, i took a look at the occult slayer and i like it, AMF at high lvl is nasty Now some words, i have searched the forum for the whole day, looking for hints and that's what i came up with so far: Chameleon seems the perfect PRC for this concept, but i think i'ts missing the sheer power to sustain high lvl fights within the parameters of my post, unless going for persistent spell + divine metamagic + LOTS of extra turning, wich would be something my DM will probably not allow. Occult slayer is exactly the opposite, very nice PRc but leaks the versatility and infiltration skills. I have found also a nice race, Voldoni, from unapprochable east, wich for 2 ECL gives you the plant type, the one with the best immunities after the undead one. I'm still brainstorming so any ideas would be appreciatet but thanks to the posts here (and to Slyver) i'm beginning to see some light
DocNessuno 02-28-06, 02:16 PM	2x post