Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kendrick 10-07-05, 06:01 PM	I'm trying to min/max a thrown weapons build at level 20. Here are the rules I'm working with: Only "Core" D&D. PHB, DMG, Complete Books, Planar Handbook, and the XPH allowed. Paragon Classes from UA are also included, but nothing else. Nothing else is permitted - No FR, no Ebberon, and especially no Miniatures Handbook. Handicaps: Character is required for campaign reasons to be a halfling. Manyshot is banned. Ability Scores: 18, 17, 17, 14, 13, 12 (rolled using 5d6 discard two lowest) Campaign is expected to involve forest combat with few if any dungeon crawls. My current build would go something like: Abilities: Str 14(-2) Dex 17(+2) Con 17 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 13 Classes: Scout 2/Swashbuckler 3/Halfling Paragon 3/Master Thrower 5/Invisible Blade 5/Scout 3-4 HP: 8+3d10+8d8+8d6+20*Con Mod Feats: Point Blank Shot; Precise Shot; Weapon Focus (Dagger); Far Shot; Two Weapon Fighting; Dash; Improved Buckler Defense; Ranged Disarm; Quick Draw(B); Snatch Arrows(B); Improved Critical(B); Weapon Finesse(B) Class Features: Skirmish +1d6 +1 AC Trapfinding Battle Fortitude +1 Uncanny Dodge Fast Movement +10 ft. Trackless Step Grace +1 Insightful Strike Athletic Prowess Save Bonus Thrown Weapon Mastery Ability Boost (Dex +2) Thrown Weapon Trick (Doubleshot) Evasion Thrown Weapon Trick (Palm Throw) Thrown Weapon Trick (Weak Spot) Dagger Sneak Attack +3d6 Unfettered Defense Bleeding Wound Uncanny Feint (Free Action) Feint Mastery At level 20 that would be: 228 HP (average) Abilities(With Items): Str 12 Dex 32 Con 24 Int 24 Wis 12 Cha 13 Saves(With Items): +22/+35/+13 AC: +5 Bracers of Armor +11 Dex +5 Int +6 Buckler +5 Ring of Protection +1 Size = AC 43 Touch AC 32 Speed 35 ft. BAB +18 Standard Action Attack: Doubletoss/Palm Throw 4 Daggers +30 attack each 1d3+1d6+3, (two with an additional +7 +1d6 if moved 10 ft. +3d6 if flat-footed) Total Potential Damage for Standard Action Attack: 4d3+6d6+26 (Average 55) This assumes the character will use the following items: Manual of Health(?) +1; Gloves of Dex +6; Amulet of Health +6; Headband of Int +6; Bracers of Armor +5; +5 Buckler; Ring of Protection +5; Cloak of Resistance +5; 4 +1 (Frost/Flaming/Shock/Corrosive) Returning Daggers. Obviously this equipment is pretty minimal (~350,000 gp), and the bracers could be improved for extra AC, the daggers for extra attack bonus/damage and so on. The character is intended to be the group's scout/stealth character, and I should be able to manage it with 12 levels with Hide/Move Silently as Class Skills, 14 levels with Spot, 7 with Survival, and 17 levels with Tumble. 4 Levels with Search might get a little difficult, but with 200 skill points total I can afford to buy some ranks cc. It doesn't look like a "crap" build right now, but it feels a little unfocused so I'd appreciate comments and advise. Is Invisible Blade worth it? It's a melee class and this is a ranged build, but I was going to pick up the prereqs anyways and the AC bonus looked nice. Are there any missing feats I should try to work in? This build is also obviously intended to be a mobile character taking a move action every turn and attacking with the Doubletoss/Palm Throw standard action. How do you see that working out? Would it be worth it to re-tool it to be the "gun turret rogue" - stationary but go for more TWF and use that and palm throw to pump out 14 daggers per round? It might be better, but I suspect that we may need to go for some guerilla tactics so the real question is: How much better would it be? Your comments are much appreciated.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 10-07-05, 07:10 PM	Maybe work towards greater two-weapon fighting? I think that a guy who can throw 2 daggers per hand as a touch attack (master thrower) would be great for Greater TWF (an extra 4 daggers is a lot more damage). Also, I'd trade improved critical for power throw (not sure of pre-reqs), but that really helps pump up the damage (touch attack makes this feasible). BTW, you'll want to buy 14 +1 returning or teleporting (XPH) daggers Or you'll have to carry a bunch of them around (which since str is a dump stat for this build, will not allow you to carry many)
Kendrick 10-08-05, 11:00 PM	Maybe work towards greater two-weapon fighting? I think that a guy who can throw 2 daggers per hand as a touch attack (master thrower) would be great for Greater TWF (an extra 4 daggers is a lot more damage). Also, I'd trade improved critical for power throw (not sure of pre-reqs), but that really helps pump up the damage (touch attack makes this feasible). BTW, you'll want to buy 14 +1 returning or teleporting (XPH) daggers Or you'll have to carry a bunch of them around (which since str is a dump stat for this build, will not allow you to carry many) Improved Critical is actually a bonus feat from Master Thrower meaning it can't be traded in, and if I recall correctly I don't have enough Str to get Power Throw, which doubly nixes that idea. I'm curious how you think the TWF is going to compare to what I have planned now - or, in other words, TWF is obviously not for me if I have to move every turn, so what % of the time do I need to be able to stay stationary and full attack for TWF to beat out improving my mobile attack?