Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sisyfos 05-05-04, 07:45 AM	Rogue3/Swashbuckler3/Invisible_Blade5/Master_thrower5 1 rog: Far shot, PBS, SA: 1d6 2 rog: *evasion 3 sb: Precise shot, *weapon finesse 4 sb: *grace +1 5 sb: *insightful strike 6 rog: WF dagger, SA: 2d6 7 ib: *unfettered defense, DSA: 3d6 8 mt: *quick draw, *palm throw 9 ib: twf, *bleeding wound 10 ib: *uncanny feint, DSA: 4d6 11 ib: *feint mastery 12 ib: itwf, *uncanny feint, DSA: 5d6 13 mt: *Improved evasion 14 mt: *defensive throw 15 mt: gtwf, *snatch arrows 16 mt: *critical throw, *weak spot BAB: 15 STR: 14 (6) DEX: 16 (10) +4(lvl)+6(ench)=26 CON: 16 (10) INT: 16 (10) WIS: 12 (4) CHA: 13 (5) Somewhat essential items: Adamantium dagger +5 *2 (well not necessarily +5 but its a goal) Adamantium +1 dagger of returning Gloves of dex +6 Headband of intelligence +4 or +6 Animated mithril shield Bracers of armor +8 Wand of alter self Cloak of resistance +5 Luckstone +1 Attack: 15+8(dex)+5(dagger)+1(wf)=29 TWF1: 27/22/17 TWF2: 27/22/17 Throwing: Damage: d4+2(str)+5d6(sneak)+5(ench)+5(int)=32,5 AC: 10+8(dex)+8(bracers of armor)+7(animated mithril shield)+5(int)=38+NA(alter self)+NA_enchantment+DEFL SAVES (base+stat+resistance+luck): Fort 6+3+5+1=15 Ref 12+8+5+1=26 Wil 4+1+5+1=11 As you notice the WILL save is pretty awful, but then again so it would be for a straight rogue. There are two things which this character really needs. First is better saves and second is better thief skills. Is there a way to accomplish both with the last 4 levels without going exalted (not possible in the campaign this is planned for)? Also, would you arrange stats differently (45 point buy available so there is a lot of potential there).
Funny Slaughter 05-05-04, 08:31 AM	First is better saves and second is better thief skills. Is there a way to accomplish both with the last 4 levels without going exalted better saves: easy :) go HL3 of course! or SoL2 if you like NG better. (get divine grace somehow) on the other hand, if you dont even want to be good you can increase your skills as well as your combat with two levels justiciar of taiia. bullheaded (regional feat) or fearless(regional feat) and cumbrous will require some amount of feats but take care of your will-save defenetively. divine seeker complements your skills quite good and gives a sacred bonus vs. divine spells and su/sl-abilities of outsiders. other then this i dont see big chances in improving your saves. gs Funny
CompleteSatori 05-05-04, 08:42 AM	Hey Sis, I changed your Point Buy a bit to reflect my idea for your last 4 character levels... Str- 14 Dex- 16 +4lvl Con- 16 Int- 14 Wis- 13 Cha- 15 +1lvl --This gives you better Social Skill dice, and helps you with your Divine Feats (see build below). Why dont you go: Rogue 3/ Swash 3/ InvB 5/ MasterThrower 5/ Cleric 1/ Skullclan Hunter 3? Base Attack: 17/12/7/2 Base Saves: 9/15/9 HD: 11d6+6d8+3d10 = 82 average. And you get Turn Undead (Take a Divine Feat at 18th level) on top of everything else... You can justify being a Cleric of one of the more Rogue like Gods (Olidimarra etc) pretty easily. Skullclan grants you an addition Sneak Attack die, and allows all of your Sneak Attack to affect Undead (Divine Strike), as well as Tracking Undead with your Knowledge (Religion) score, and you are immune to Undead Fear effects as well. Also there is a +5 bump to your Will save.
RodIshiCi 05-05-04, 08:58 AM	Maybe getting a mix of cold iron, adamantine and silver daggers would be better since you'd be ready for any kind of DR, but I guess you want to bypass most DRs by brute force (SA) while keeping adamantine ones for things like Golems, which aren't subject to SA. If you need the better armor for high dexterity, take a look on Celestial Armor (DMG/SRD). But if you have high INT, remember Unfettered Defense won't work while using armor. Also, if the shield is going to be animated, why Mithral? Would be cheaper making it out of Darkwood if you need something light when carrying, or plain iron if you need the durability. And remember you need more daggers if you're using Palm Throw. And the returning one will only be available again in the next round.
Sisyfos 05-05-04, 10:07 AM	RODISHICI: More different types of daggers: Sure. The equipment list is definitely not finished. It is still in brainstorming phase. This kind of a character surely will have daggers of all different types at his use. Also SA does not help overcoming damage, thus bypassin DR is very important for him. Unfettered defense and armor: How did I miss that? Thanks. It is clear now that of course this character wears bracers of armor. That solves the max dex from armor problem also. Animated shield + mithral: This character does not have shield proficiency from any of the classes. Thus mithral shield is best as animated shields still give the normal penalties and mithral shield reduces those penalties to 0. FUNNY SLAUGHTER: I somehow knew you would suggest HL if you saw this post ;) Anyhow, divine seeker is a pretty good match for this character and HL would definitely help with the saves department without losing any BAB in the process. Also the prereq Iron will would be useful for this char. Thanks. COMPLETE SATORI: Nice divine variation to the build. Too bad 2 BAB are lost, but the divine feats might very well counteract that. Also the skull clan hunter seems interesting because it has good skill list, skill points, good will save, SA progression and abilities which reduce rogue's weaknesses. Boosting charisma would be a good option with the divine feats or with Funny Slaughters suggestion of getting CHA to saves. Thanks. ALL: Nice ideas everyone. I think I'll manage to build something pretty nice with those ideas. Sisyfos PS. Occult slayer seems like a pretty good match also. Full bab, good will save, spell turning, and 5th level ability mind blank is far from useless also.
RodIshiCi 05-05-04, 01:17 PM	The only bad thing about this kind of build is the weapon cost. Made one myself (adding 4 fighter levels on top of that and with Two in one blow instead of Defensive throw), and either I would neglect defense (which I decided to do not) or end up with only half the total ammount in Teleporting Daggers. Basically I chose a mix of wounding daggers with a couple of Holy ones (for bypassing DR X/good), making them of all the three different materials, and finishing with a load of plain daggers (to compliment the attack rotine, basically just throw those with the lower bonuses because they don't have the side-effects of the magical ones). If something has resistance to the throwing rotine due good DR, this character would just pick the 2 most appropriated daggers and to into melee (chose Giantbane tactical feat for some nice flavor actions, but could be Scramble [for avoiding death], Improved Initiative or Combat Expertise). Edit: And I guess I'll incorporate the Animated Shield idea in my character. :D
Sisyfos 05-05-04, 02:23 PM	I'm not sure about using greater magic weapon on shurikens. On one point it says that one should treat shurikens as projectiles for purpose of the spell and on the other it lists projectiles but does not have shuriken on that list. The question being really is whether GMW enchants 50 shurikens or just one/casting. If it enchants 50 that would be an easy way to get some magic weapons for throwing if the party has a nice cleric/wizard. Using shurikens instead of daggers would cost some feats though, but it would be pretty cool. Anyhow, glad you liked the animated shield.
Sisyfos 05-05-04, 06:21 PM	I just noticed the Crystal mask of mind armor from XPH. It gives +4 insight bonus to WILL save for 10k gold. It might be worth it to carry one around for those builds needing better will save occasionally. For this build it would mean that the headband of intelligence would need to be crafter to apply for a different slot location (not a problem in our games, but I've understood that some DMs do have problems with such modifications). Sisyfos