Ah, it still works! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ah, it still works! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RadicalTaoist
11-27-04, 12:45 AM Just double checking. My favorite tactic from Tome and Blood is legal by Complete Arcane.

Chain Spell Metamagic Feat applied to the Chain Lightning Spell
Takes a 9th level spell slot. Let's say the CL is at the cap, 20 (not hard to do with Rings of Arcane Might, an Orange Ioun Stone, or the Practiced Spellcaster feat). Only one metamagic feat - it's worth it for a sorceror to do this.
Initial target takes 20d6 damage from the normal Chain Lightning. Everyone else takes 10d6 damage from the normal Chain Lightning's regular chains and then another 10d6 from the chains granted by the Chain Spell feat. So everyone's up to 20d6 damage.
But the chains that Chain Spell grants are little Chain Lightnings of their own, so they also have half-damage chains dealing 5d6 damage each. So in addition to the 20d6 stated above, everyone takes 5d6 lightning damage for every other guy that's affected.
If you hit 6 guys with this, everyone takes 20d6 + (5d6 x 5 other guys for each target = 25d6) 45d6 lightning damage. You can affect up to 21 people with this spell. As such, if you managed to fit 21 guys into a 30 ft. diameter circle, they would each take 120d6 lightning damage. One spell, one feat.

Oh yeah, and Reflex save for half. Everyone but the initial target gets +4 on that save.
Sisyfos
11-27-04, 03:01 AM ;)
catharz
11-27-04, 03:46 AM Good idea. The only functional non-artificer blasting I've seen.

An incantatrix could make that a Fell drain Chain Chain lightning.

Now everyone gets a negative level. Or, depending on how you interpret it, three or more negative levels.
Fălenganor
11-27-04, 05:11 AM Make it Bloodseeking :D :
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=342847
Nightspirit
11-27-04, 05:36 AM nice combo....great against a group of fighters or wizards or anything without evasion and improved evasion
Tempest Stormwind
11-27-04, 01:47 PM Good idea. The only functional non-artificer blasting I've seen.

An incantatrix could make that a Fell drain Chain Chain lightning.

Now everyone gets a negative level. Or, depending on how you interpret it, three or more negative levels.

Try looking up kineticists. Psionics make blasting "casters" a reasonable option again, even if they are kinda one-sided. They do it straightforwardly, too, and from character creation, instead of relying on advanced metamagic or 9th level spell slots.

STill, an incantrix would scare the **** out of me with this, for exactly that reason. And possibly even Born of the Three Thunders, and let your party have some fun.
0gre
11-27-04, 09:04 PM The chain spell entry says "Any spell that specifies a single target..."

Wouldn't that make Chain Lightning invalid, since it has primary and secondary targets?
Kessalin Talira
11-27-04, 10:13 PM Double post.
Kessalin Talira
11-27-04, 10:37 PM In my opinion, according to the RAW, Chain Lightning would be invalid for exactly that reason.

Otherwise think about what a 20th level caster could do with that: 21 targets take 20d6 primary bolt + 20 10d6 secondary bolts... 20 times.

Works out to 220d6 per target, if I figured correctly. Reflex for half, of course.
Mucknuggle
11-27-04, 10:56 PM Chain Lightning:

Targets: One primary target, plus one secondary target/level (each of which must be within 30 ft. of the primary target)

So, no, it doesn't work.
RadicalTaoist
11-28-04, 01:11 AM I don't know whether to cry or breathe a sigh of relief.
0gre
11-28-04, 01:37 AM Yeah I had a cool idea for an air savant, born of three thunders, build.
Kessalin Talira
11-28-04, 02:34 AM I don't know whether to cry or breathe a sigh of relief.

If you've ever DMed, you understand why I say it's definitely the latter.
RadicalTaoist
12-09-04, 06:21 PM Yeh, I understand. I know that Chain Lightning's still pretty leet with Born of the Three Thunders and Fell Drain tacked on.
I would as DM allow a player to Chain Chain Lightning, but houserule that it only affects the primary target affect and comes to full primary target damage for all targets. No cumulative chaining, no drop in save. 20d6 damage to 21 targets at 20th level with a Reflex save of a 6th level spell for a 9th level spell slot sounds fair to me, don't you agree?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RadicalTaoist 11-27-04, 12:45 AM	Just double checking. My favorite tactic from Tome and Blood is legal by Complete Arcane. Chain Spell Metamagic Feat applied to the Chain Lightning Spell Takes a 9th level spell slot. Let's say the CL is at the cap, 20 (not hard to do with Rings of Arcane Might, an Orange Ioun Stone, or the Practiced Spellcaster feat). Only one metamagic feat - it's worth it for a sorceror to do this. Initial target takes 20d6 damage from the normal Chain Lightning. Everyone else takes 10d6 damage from the normal Chain Lightning's regular chains and then another 10d6 from the chains granted by the Chain Spell feat. So everyone's up to 20d6 damage. But the chains that Chain Spell grants are little Chain Lightnings of their own, so they also have half-damage chains dealing 5d6 damage each. So in addition to the 20d6 stated above, everyone takes 5d6 lightning damage for every other guy that's affected. If you hit 6 guys with this, everyone takes 20d6 + (5d6 x 5 other guys for each target = 25d6) 45d6 lightning damage. You can affect up to 21 people with this spell. As such, if you managed to fit 21 guys into a 30 ft. diameter circle, they would each take 120d6 lightning damage. One spell, one feat. Oh yeah, and Reflex save for half. Everyone but the initial target gets +4 on that save.
Sisyfos 11-27-04, 03:01 AM	;)
catharz 11-27-04, 03:46 AM	Good idea. The only functional non-artificer blasting I've seen. An incantatrix could make that a Fell drain Chain Chain lightning. Now everyone gets a negative level. Or, depending on how you interpret it, three or more negative levels.
Fălenganor 11-27-04, 05:11 AM	Make it Bloodseeking :D : http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=342847
Nightspirit 11-27-04, 05:36 AM	nice combo....great against a group of fighters or wizards or anything without evasion and improved evasion
Tempest Stormwind 11-27-04, 01:47 PM	Good idea. The only functional non-artificer blasting I've seen. An incantatrix could make that a Fell drain Chain Chain lightning. Now everyone gets a negative level. Or, depending on how you interpret it, three or more negative levels. Try looking up kineticists. Psionics make blasting "casters" a reasonable option again, even if they are kinda one-sided. They do it straightforwardly, too, and from character creation, instead of relying on advanced metamagic or 9th level spell slots. STill, an incantrix would scare the **** out of me with this, for exactly that reason. And possibly even Born of the Three Thunders, and let your party have some fun.
0gre 11-27-04, 09:04 PM	The chain spell entry says "Any spell that specifies a single target..." Wouldn't that make Chain Lightning invalid, since it has primary and secondary targets?
Kessalin Talira 11-27-04, 10:13 PM	Double post.
Kessalin Talira 11-27-04, 10:37 PM	In my opinion, according to the RAW, Chain Lightning would be invalid for exactly that reason. Otherwise think about what a 20th level caster could do with that: 21 targets take 20d6 primary bolt + 20 10d6 secondary bolts... 20 times. Works out to 220d6 per target, if I figured correctly. Reflex for half, of course.
Mucknuggle 11-27-04, 10:56 PM	Chain Lightning: Targets: One primary target, plus one secondary target/level (each of which must be within 30 ft. of the primary target) So, no, it doesn't work.
RadicalTaoist 11-28-04, 01:11 AM	I don't know whether to cry or breathe a sigh of relief.
0gre 11-28-04, 01:37 AM	Yeah I had a cool idea for an air savant, born of three thunders, build.
Kessalin Talira 11-28-04, 02:34 AM	I don't know whether to cry or breathe a sigh of relief. If you've ever DMed, you understand why I say it's definitely the latter.
RadicalTaoist 12-09-04, 06:21 PM	Yeh, I understand. I know that Chain Lightning's still pretty leet with Born of the Three Thunders and Fell Drain tacked on. I would as DM allow a player to Chain Chain Lightning, but houserule that it only affects the primary target affect and comes to full primary target damage for all targets. No cumulative chaining, no drop in save. 20d6 damage to 21 targets at 20th level with a Reflex save of a 6th level spell for a 9th level spell slot sounds fair to me, don't you agree?