Akhilleus as a DnD Charicter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Akhilleus as a DnD Charicter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shashu X
09-09-05, 11:09 PM I have a request for help from all the stat masters on these boards. I am trying to stat the charicter Akhilleus from Homer's The Iliad . However I have no idea what feats and skills to give him. I would like to have the charicter to have both a good AC and attack bonuses. I plan to have him wear a breastplate for armor and use a longspear an his main weapon.

If someone would be willing to make a complete level rundown I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance.
ancalimohtar
09-10-05, 01:36 AM Did you really have to spell his name like that? Come on, it's Achilles.

And he doesn't use a longspear. Greeks used the spear one-handed, and held a shield in the other arm. Sometimes they would throw the spear and draw out a short sword.
BadCatMan
09-10-05, 02:04 AM I'm not sure on the fighting style of the Greeks c. 1200 BC, but I'd give him the standard Hoplite style of the 4th and 5th centuries BC, assuming that not much had changed during the intervening centuries. Look it up.

Its been so long since I read the Illiad, I can't recall the details. I do know that the various rewrites over the Ancient Greek Dark Ages following the Mycenean era adjusted details to suit then-current times - so the technology creeps forwards, such as the sudden appearance of chariots, which quite impossibly leap walls...

So you had it right: breastplate, long spear, large shield. Don't forget a short sword for when the enemy gets close or if you drop/break your spear. A broken long spear can make a handy short spear if you keep the pointy end, or a club if you get the blunt end. Under these conditions, you might not want to specialise in a weapon, as you might have to swap regularly. A sling is also handy for ranged (can it be used with a shield?), although that was more the domain of the Peltast skirmishers.

For classes, I'd say Fighter or Fighter/Barbarian. The Hoplites were tough SOBs, so Barbarian would suit well, I think. Achilles was similarly hard to kill, except for his heel. Fighter is kind of the core of the Hoplite though. Myself, I'd go for one of the mercenary/bandit Hoplites following the Peloponnesian war, and grab a few levels in Rogue for a more larcenous bent.

An Ancient History professor I had for a lecturer once described Hoplite warfare as a 'really nasty shoving match, with points.' With that in mind, I think a Hoplite would focus on Trips, Bullrushes and Overruns to disable the enemy, before going for the kill. The Shield and Phalanx feats, and tactical charging feats out of Complete Warrior would also be quite useful, as in Hold The Line. These will help you charge, and be charged at.

I reckon Hoplites would simply spread their skill points out over the skills availlable to them as Fighters, except for Ride and Handle Animal (as they are infantry). Intimidate is a must have skill for the Hoplite.

I'd say Achilles/Achilleus is CN - he's really only interested in his own fame. I think Dwarf would make a good substitute for the Ancient Greeks: stocky, at home in a rocky environment, and also good craftsmen/architects. Plus that +4 stability bonus works well with those trips and bullrushes.

And come back with your shield, or on it. ;)
BadCatMan
09-10-05, 02:14 AM Actually Achilleus/Akhilleus (although I haven't seen this spelling before) is a more correct spelling/pronounciation.

I've never been sure what the short and long spears are meant to be in regards to the Hoplite. Short spear is too short, with not enough damage. Long spear is two-handed, which doesn't work with the shield, but better fits the Hoplite image.* Monkey Grip the long spear if you have to.

* The sarissa of Philip of Macedon's phalanxes is just ridiculous OTOH. You'd never get it inside the dungeon. :) But hitting a foe from ~20ft away would be plenty of fun.
PhaedrusXY
09-10-05, 02:40 AM I'm pretty sure there is a feat in Complete Warrior that lets you use a spear in one hand with a shield in your offhand (I'm not talking about Monkey Grip, either). I'd also give him some kind of template that gives him damage reduction or regeneration (probably regeneration would be better), to represent his superhuman toughness, and his vulnerability. Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but it's along the same lines. Other than that, BadCatMan sounds like he has some pretty good ideas on the subject.
X-Codes
09-10-05, 03:38 AM Phalanx Fighting:
If you wield a light weapon and a large shield, you gain an additional +1 shield bonus to AC.
If you are adjacent to another person using a light weapon and a large shield, you gain yet another +2 shield bonus to AC and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves.
(The shield bonuses from this feat stack with the shield bonus granted by the user's shield and with each other.)

As for the spelling argument, I didn't read the Iliad. I qualified for a college writing course that allowed me to skip HS literature (which I did immediately... I liked the teacher, just not the way she taught). Unfortunately, that pretty well limits my knowledge of such things to Beowulf. Therefore, I am the perfect candidate to say that every single time I see and hear it, it's pronounced Achilles.

Now, back to the task at hand. Achilles was an exceptional warrior supernaturally enchanted with skin harder than iron. Read: Human Fighter with the Mineral Warrior template.
colm_l
09-10-05, 05:51 AM Mineral warrior or Paragon - depends on if you want to play him
MustafaHazaraKhan
09-10-05, 08:29 AM The accepted English translation is Achilles, just like the accepted translation of Ulixes is Ulysses.

Monkey Grip no longer changes the amount of effort required by a weapon, that is to say that you cannot use the feat to enable a two-handed weapon to be used one-handed. All it does is allow you to use a large version of the same weapon for the same amount of effort, for example you could use a large shortspear in one hand (still with -2 on attack rolls).

Personally I would go with shortspear since it can be thrown whereas the longspear cannot (no range increment, and the Throw Anything feat is so out-of-character). By longspear I always think of medieval English pikes rather than versatile javelins.

I agree that Mineral Warrior isn't a bad template, and its probably the closest you'll come to his unbreakable skin (damage reduction). Human Paragon is a good class to give him considering that he literally was the best footsoldier in the Greek army.

Didn't he chase Hector three times around Troy? That would say to me that he should have the Endurance feat at least, and if you're taking that then Diehard is probably also quite fitting.
UMiskatonic
09-10-05, 10:58 AM If you want, you could wield a small longspear in one hand, and still maintain reach. You'll take a -2 for an inappropriately sized weapon, but a straight fighter-type should be okay with that.

Achilles' natural invulnerability came from his mother dipping him into one of the four rivers of Hell, Styx if I remember correctly. In such a case, I'd treat the dipping as a template of somekind. Mineral Warrior is the closest that's ready-made.

His mother knew to do this, because she was some sort of nymph. I'm not sure on the details there, but Fey-touched wouldn't be out of place either.
DBoot
09-10-05, 12:05 PM If you're going by Illiad Achilles, he's not in any way immortal, Homer brushes that legend aside. However, he gets help left and right because his mommy has pull with the gods.

Achilles is a wussy-man who needed the divine to hold his hands all the way. Hector was cooler, but Odysseus (Some sort of crazy combat-charisma build)and Aias (A Goliath who takes Dwarven Defender) is where its at.

That said, Achilles is known for being fast and deadly, I would suggest getting him boots of striding and stepping at the least. Shock Trooper is definately his style. A valorous sword, leap attack, and other fun charge boosters is a good bet. Don't neglect his ranged combat. Power Shot with a javelin works nicely.

I think there's a feat somewhere that lets you throw weapons while charging.

I agree: Achilles is CN.
Seadrik
09-10-05, 12:49 PM I think it will be a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles.

Here describes as 'god-like' so the Paragon template fits better I think. See in Epic Level Handbok. The base class will be Fighter or one UA variant (rogue feats maybe).

Hector's description was a noble warrior (paladin without spells variant?) and Achilles a more brutish (maybe one level of barbarian) if you plan other characters.

See you
Khazra Reborn
09-10-05, 03:46 PM I never understood this whole Achilles things....Hectors way cooler! But I'd probaly use the sneak attack fighter (thug? sounds right...) mixed with barbarian for Achilles.

Odysseus (Some sort of crazy combat-charisma build)
fighter2/Paladin4/marshal4/Piour templar10
Or, if you play him as a half-orc (dont know why you would but i like the mechanics):
paladin8/marshal12 with a marshal/paladin CV style multiclass feat & half orc sub level1.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shashu X 09-09-05, 11:09 PM	I have a request for help from all the stat masters on these boards. I am trying to stat the charicter Akhilleus from Homer's The Iliad . However I have no idea what feats and skills to give him. I would like to have the charicter to have both a good AC and attack bonuses. I plan to have him wear a breastplate for armor and use a longspear an his main weapon. If someone would be willing to make a complete level rundown I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance.
ancalimohtar 09-10-05, 01:36 AM	Did you really have to spell his name like that? Come on, it's Achilles. And he doesn't use a longspear. Greeks used the spear one-handed, and held a shield in the other arm. Sometimes they would throw the spear and draw out a short sword.
BadCatMan 09-10-05, 02:04 AM	I'm not sure on the fighting style of the Greeks c. 1200 BC, but I'd give him the standard Hoplite style of the 4th and 5th centuries BC, assuming that not much had changed during the intervening centuries. Look it up. Its been so long since I read the Illiad, I can't recall the details. I do know that the various rewrites over the Ancient Greek Dark Ages following the Mycenean era adjusted details to suit then-current times - so the technology creeps forwards, such as the sudden appearance of chariots, which quite impossibly leap walls... So you had it right: breastplate, long spear, large shield. Don't forget a short sword for when the enemy gets close or if you drop/break your spear. A broken long spear can make a handy short spear if you keep the pointy end, or a club if you get the blunt end. Under these conditions, you might not want to specialise in a weapon, as you might have to swap regularly. A sling is also handy for ranged (can it be used with a shield?), although that was more the domain of the Peltast skirmishers. For classes, I'd say Fighter or Fighter/Barbarian. The Hoplites were tough SOBs, so Barbarian would suit well, I think. Achilles was similarly hard to kill, except for his heel. Fighter is kind of the core of the Hoplite though. Myself, I'd go for one of the mercenary/bandit Hoplites following the Peloponnesian war, and grab a few levels in Rogue for a more larcenous bent. An Ancient History professor I had for a lecturer once described Hoplite warfare as a 'really nasty shoving match, with points.' With that in mind, I think a Hoplite would focus on Trips, Bullrushes and Overruns to disable the enemy, before going for the kill. The Shield and Phalanx feats, and tactical charging feats out of Complete Warrior would also be quite useful, as in Hold The Line. These will help you charge, and be charged at. I reckon Hoplites would simply spread their skill points out over the skills availlable to them as Fighters, except for Ride and Handle Animal (as they are infantry). Intimidate is a must have skill for the Hoplite. I'd say Achilles/Achilleus is CN - he's really only interested in his own fame. I think Dwarf would make a good substitute for the Ancient Greeks: stocky, at home in a rocky environment, and also good craftsmen/architects. Plus that +4 stability bonus works well with those trips and bullrushes. And come back with your shield, or on it. ;)
BadCatMan 09-10-05, 02:14 AM	Actually Achilleus/Akhilleus (although I haven't seen this spelling before) is a more correct spelling/pronounciation. I've never been sure what the short and long spears are meant to be in regards to the Hoplite. Short spear is too short, with not enough damage. Long spear is two-handed, which doesn't work with the shield, but better fits the Hoplite image.* Monkey Grip the long spear if you have to. * The sarissa of Philip of Macedon's phalanxes is just ridiculous OTOH. You'd never get it inside the dungeon. :) But hitting a foe from ~20ft away would be plenty of fun.
PhaedrusXY 09-10-05, 02:40 AM	I'm pretty sure there is a feat in Complete Warrior that lets you use a spear in one hand with a shield in your offhand (I'm not talking about Monkey Grip, either). I'd also give him some kind of template that gives him damage reduction or regeneration (probably regeneration would be better), to represent his superhuman toughness, and his vulnerability. Yeah, it's not exactly the same, but it's along the same lines. Other than that, BadCatMan sounds like he has some pretty good ideas on the subject.
X-Codes 09-10-05, 03:38 AM	Phalanx Fighting: If you wield a light weapon and a large shield, you gain an additional +1 shield bonus to AC. If you are adjacent to another person using a light weapon and a large shield, you gain yet another +2 shield bonus to AC and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. (The shield bonuses from this feat stack with the shield bonus granted by the user's shield and with each other.) As for the spelling argument, I didn't read the Iliad. I qualified for a college writing course that allowed me to skip HS literature (which I did immediately... I liked the teacher, just not the way she taught). Unfortunately, that pretty well limits my knowledge of such things to Beowulf. Therefore, I am the perfect candidate to say that every single time I see and hear it, it's pronounced Achilles. Now, back to the task at hand. Achilles was an exceptional warrior supernaturally enchanted with skin harder than iron. Read: Human Fighter with the Mineral Warrior template.
colm_l 09-10-05, 05:51 AM	Mineral warrior or Paragon - depends on if you want to play him
MustafaHazaraKhan 09-10-05, 08:29 AM	The accepted English translation is Achilles, just like the accepted translation of Ulixes is Ulysses. Monkey Grip no longer changes the amount of effort required by a weapon, that is to say that you cannot use the feat to enable a two-handed weapon to be used one-handed. All it does is allow you to use a large version of the same weapon for the same amount of effort, for example you could use a large shortspear in one hand (still with -2 on attack rolls). Personally I would go with shortspear since it can be thrown whereas the longspear cannot (no range increment, and the Throw Anything feat is so out-of-character). By longspear I always think of medieval English pikes rather than versatile javelins. I agree that Mineral Warrior isn't a bad template, and its probably the closest you'll come to his unbreakable skin (damage reduction). Human Paragon is a good class to give him considering that he literally was the best footsoldier in the Greek army. Didn't he chase Hector three times around Troy? That would say to me that he should have the Endurance feat at least, and if you're taking that then Diehard is probably also quite fitting.
UMiskatonic 09-10-05, 10:58 AM	If you want, you could wield a small longspear in one hand, and still maintain reach. You'll take a -2 for an inappropriately sized weapon, but a straight fighter-type should be okay with that. Achilles' natural invulnerability came from his mother dipping him into one of the four rivers of Hell, Styx if I remember correctly. In such a case, I'd treat the dipping as a template of somekind. Mineral Warrior is the closest that's ready-made. His mother knew to do this, because she was some sort of nymph. I'm not sure on the details there, but Fey-touched wouldn't be out of place either.
DBoot 09-10-05, 12:05 PM	If you're going by Illiad Achilles, he's not in any way immortal, Homer brushes that legend aside. However, he gets help left and right because his mommy has pull with the gods. Achilles is a wussy-man who needed the divine to hold his hands all the way. Hector was cooler, but Odysseus (Some sort of crazy combat-charisma build)and Aias (A Goliath who takes Dwarven Defender) is where its at. That said, Achilles is known for being fast and deadly, I would suggest getting him boots of striding and stepping at the least. Shock Trooper is definately his style. A valorous sword, leap attack, and other fun charge boosters is a good bet. Don't neglect his ranged combat. Power Shot with a javelin works nicely. I think there's a feat somewhere that lets you throw weapons while charging. I agree: Achilles is CN.
Seadrik 09-10-05, 12:49 PM	I think it will be a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles. Here describes as 'god-like' so the Paragon template fits better I think. See in Epic Level Handbok. The base class will be Fighter or one UA variant (rogue feats maybe). Hector's description was a noble warrior (paladin without spells variant?) and Achilles a more brutish (maybe one level of barbarian) if you plan other characters. See you
Khazra Reborn 09-10-05, 03:46 PM	I never understood this whole Achilles things....Hectors way cooler! But I'd probaly use the sneak attack fighter (thug? sounds right...) mixed with barbarian for Achilles. Odysseus (Some sort of crazy combat-charisma build) fighter2/Paladin4/marshal4/Piour templar10 Or, if you play him as a half-orc (dont know why you would but i like the mechanics): paladin8/marshal12 with a marshal/paladin CV style multiclass feat & half orc sub level1.