Alacritous Cogitation and Reserve Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alacritous Cogitation and Reserve Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Philistine_Philospher
02-13-07, 12:09 AM If a wizard has the feat Alacritous Cogitation and one appropriately leveled uncast spell slot can he make use any reserve feat he knows as he has (Potentially) any spell he knows available to cast? IE.....

My wizard has only one 3rd level spell slot left.

He knows the feats Alacritous Cogitation, Blade of Force, and Storm bolt.

He has the spells Leomunds Tiny Hut (Force) and Lightning bolt (Electricity) in his spellbook and with Alacritous Cogitation, can potentially still cast either one.

Can he make use of both his reserve feats while this single slot is still uncast?
Hyfigh
02-13-07, 08:57 AM It would seem as such. Sorcerers only need an open spell slot to be able to use them. In theory, they could have any number of reserve feats and cherry-pick the spells they want at certain levels. I can't see why a wizard with a combination of highten spell and a really large list of spells couldn't function in nearly the same way (just more efficiently).
SunTzuWarmaster
02-13-07, 04:24 PM There was no conclusive decision when a similiar debate happened a while ago, so check with your DM.

If a sorcerer took heighten spell and the acid reserve feat (can't remember it's name), could he always have an acid spell of his highest level provided he didn't cast his highest level spell?

The discussion was that he COULD heighten an acid splash cantrip to whatever level he could still cast.

If I was DM, sure. You took 2 feats to get level*d6 damage all day. If that is your best option, feel free to use it. Seriously, did you run out of fireballs, hastes, invisibilities, meteor showers, cones of cold, ect. that could be used instead?

The argument continues indicating that you could take all the reserve feats you want + heighten spell, and use them all of your highest level (provided a spell is uncast and you meet the prereqs for the reserve). Being that they are all inferior to actual spells of the appropriate level, it really seems fine to me.
Totentanz
02-13-07, 04:47 PM Well Reserve feats pretty much killed the Warlock already. Allowing this would be a great tombstone, I suppose.:P
ChristopherGroves
02-13-07, 04:59 PM Yes and no ... there are some things those feats can do and others they really, really can't. Eldritch Glaive anyone?
aelryinth
02-13-07, 05:42 PM Technically, no, he could not cast the Reserve spells. he doesn't have them among his spells in memory, which is what the feat checks. The fact that they are POTENTIALLY there is not the same as them actually BEING there.

If he wiped the Cogitation to bring in one of the spells, and didn't have to cast it, then his Reserve feats would sit up and pay notice to him.

Same thing with a sorceror. the Feat checks which slot the spell being cast is in...NOT which spell slot it is being cast FROM. Ergo, acid splash is a cantrip and won't trigger a Reserve feat. Just because you can heighten it to level 9 doesn't mean anything...the base spell is still at level 0.

The sorceror has an advantage in that as long as he has at least ONE spell slot open, he can use any/all of his reserve feats. Wizards actually have to keep the spell in memory.

---Aelryinth
smage
02-13-07, 06:17 PM Actually, aelyrinth, I thought as you did, but then I went and reread the text and what it says is that the caster must have "a spell of the appropriate variety...available to cast", then explains how this functions for both spontaneous and prepared casters. Since Alacritous Cogitation functions as a version of spontaneous casting, to see how it functions with reserve feats we should look to the section explaining how reserve feats work for spontaneous casters. Which is to say: wizards get to have their cake and eat it too.

Also, where are you getting that Heighten Spell doesn't affect Reserve Feats? There is nothing in the text to support your argument. A spell with the Heighten Spell metamagic feat applied to it is treated in all ways as if it were a spell of the level it is Heightened to, so it should, as written, be fully compliant with the rules governing Reserve Feats.
SunTzuWarmaster
02-13-07, 08:11 PM Back and forth we go, it really is up to your DM. If he says that you can't heighten a spell to use a reserve feat, then it SERIOUSLY cripples reserve feats (to get optimal use from an acid-damage spell, you must always have an acid spell on your list, virutally at every level; which barely exists when using Dragon magazine).

Another side of the argument is "what if I have energy substituion," if I can sub in fire damage for a level 4 spell (Ice Storm), can I use the Fiery Burst feat for a level 4 spell?

I think the intent was that if you took the Fiery Burst reserve feat, you were a fire-using caster, and would usually memorize a fire spell every level. In this instance, you probably ALSO took Energy Sub (fire), and energy substitution would count. However, there are not that many acid spells, which pretty much nerfs the acid-based reserve feat (the same goes for the teleportation one, although it is less prevalent)

On the other hand, it seems like the goal is to have magic users hold back bigger spells, while still being able to use magic throughout the day (the text mentions that it wants magic users to feel like they aren't drawing their sling because they are out of spells). If you are holding back a spell slot of your highest level, you are achieving this goal. Using this intent, heighten would apply.

I still follow the DMing I listed above; if, as a caster, you burned TWO FEATS (Alacritous Cogitation+Reserve or Heighten+Reserve) for the ability to get a single-target fire blast for 4d6 at level 7, and hold back your highest level spell, I'll allow it.

I personally like the flavor of the reserve feats to do non-standard things such as using Acidic Splatter to burn your way out of a jail cell, Fiery Burst for mid-dungeon welding/re-forging, Face Changer and Sickening Grasp for an assassin's handshake, Elemental summoning to build an underground fortress or simply a cave for the night, Storm Bolt in an ice/water area, ect.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Philistine_Philospher 02-13-07, 12:09 AM	If a wizard has the feat Alacritous Cogitation and one appropriately leveled uncast spell slot can he make use any reserve feat he knows as he has (Potentially) any spell he knows available to cast? IE..... My wizard has only one 3rd level spell slot left. He knows the feats Alacritous Cogitation, Blade of Force, and Storm bolt. He has the spells Leomunds Tiny Hut (Force) and Lightning bolt (Electricity) in his spellbook and with Alacritous Cogitation, can potentially still cast either one. Can he make use of both his reserve feats while this single slot is still uncast?
Hyfigh 02-13-07, 08:57 AM	It would seem as such. Sorcerers only need an open spell slot to be able to use them. In theory, they could have any number of reserve feats and cherry-pick the spells they want at certain levels. I can't see why a wizard with a combination of highten spell and a really large list of spells couldn't function in nearly the same way (just more efficiently).
SunTzuWarmaster 02-13-07, 04:24 PM	There was no conclusive decision when a similiar debate happened a while ago, so check with your DM. If a sorcerer took heighten spell and the acid reserve feat (can't remember it's name), could he always have an acid spell of his highest level provided he didn't cast his highest level spell? The discussion was that he COULD heighten an acid splash cantrip to whatever level he could still cast. If I was DM, sure. You took 2 feats to get level*d6 damage all day. If that is your best option, feel free to use it. Seriously, did you run out of fireballs, hastes, invisibilities, meteor showers, cones of cold, ect. that could be used instead? The argument continues indicating that you could take all the reserve feats you want + heighten spell, and use them all of your highest level (provided a spell is uncast and you meet the prereqs for the reserve). Being that they are all inferior to actual spells of the appropriate level, it really seems fine to me.
Totentanz 02-13-07, 04:47 PM	Well Reserve feats pretty much killed the Warlock already. Allowing this would be a great tombstone, I suppose.:P
ChristopherGroves 02-13-07, 04:59 PM	Yes and no ... there are some things those feats can do and others they really, really can't. Eldritch Glaive anyone?
aelryinth 02-13-07, 05:42 PM	Technically, no, he could not cast the Reserve spells. he doesn't have them among his spells in memory, which is what the feat checks. The fact that they are POTENTIALLY there is not the same as them actually BEING there. If he wiped the Cogitation to bring in one of the spells, and didn't have to cast it, then his Reserve feats would sit up and pay notice to him. Same thing with a sorceror. the Feat checks which slot the spell being cast is in...NOT which spell slot it is being cast FROM. Ergo, acid splash is a cantrip and won't trigger a Reserve feat. Just because you can heighten it to level 9 doesn't mean anything...the base spell is still at level 0. The sorceror has an advantage in that as long as he has at least ONE spell slot open, he can use any/all of his reserve feats. Wizards actually have to keep the spell in memory. ---Aelryinth
smage 02-13-07, 06:17 PM	Actually, aelyrinth, I thought as you did, but then I went and reread the text and what it says is that the caster must have "a spell of the appropriate variety...available to cast", then explains how this functions for both spontaneous and prepared casters. Since Alacritous Cogitation functions as a version of spontaneous casting, to see how it functions with reserve feats we should look to the section explaining how reserve feats work for spontaneous casters. Which is to say: wizards get to have their cake and eat it too. Also, where are you getting that Heighten Spell doesn't affect Reserve Feats? There is nothing in the text to support your argument. A spell with the Heighten Spell metamagic feat applied to it is treated in all ways as if it were a spell of the level it is Heightened to, so it should, as written, be fully compliant with the rules governing Reserve Feats.
SunTzuWarmaster 02-13-07, 08:11 PM	Back and forth we go, it really is up to your DM. If he says that you can't heighten a spell to use a reserve feat, then it SERIOUSLY cripples reserve feats (to get optimal use from an acid-damage spell, you must always have an acid spell on your list, virutally at every level; which barely exists when using Dragon magazine). Another side of the argument is "what if I have energy substituion," if I can sub in fire damage for a level 4 spell (Ice Storm), can I use the Fiery Burst feat for a level 4 spell? I think the intent was that if you took the Fiery Burst reserve feat, you were a fire-using caster, and would usually memorize a fire spell every level. In this instance, you probably ALSO took Energy Sub (fire), and energy substitution would count. However, there are not that many acid spells, which pretty much nerfs the acid-based reserve feat (the same goes for the teleportation one, although it is less prevalent) On the other hand, it seems like the goal is to have magic users hold back bigger spells, while still being able to use magic throughout the day (the text mentions that it wants magic users to feel like they aren't drawing their sling because they are out of spells). If you are holding back a spell slot of your highest level, you are achieving this goal. Using this intent, heighten would apply. I still follow the DMing I listed above; if, as a caster, you burned TWO FEATS (Alacritous Cogitation+Reserve or Heighten+Reserve) for the ability to get a single-target fire blast for 4d6 at level 7, and hold back your highest level spell, I'll allow it. I personally like the flavor of the reserve feats to do non-standard things such as using Acidic Splatter to burn your way out of a jail cell, Fiery Burst for mid-dungeon welding/re-forging, Face Changer and Sickening Grasp for an assassin's handshake, Elemental summoning to build an underground fortress or simply a cave for the night, Storm Bolt in an ice/water area, ect.