Post/Author/DateTime	Post
deathwishjoe 11-20-06, 03:13 PM	So while working on another problem I realized something very interesting about alacritous cogitation. heres a few quotes for you to peruse. if you leave an arcane spell slot open when preparing spells you can use that slot to cast any spell you know of the same level or lower Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up. With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell. emphasis mine so a maximized, empowered, widened, twinned and repeated fireball is a third level spell. therefor by leaving a third level slot open with alacritous cogitation I can use it to cast a maximized, empowered, widened, twinned and repeated fireball. sure you can only do this once a day, but wow. ======================================== ======================================== ========= alacritous cogitation allows a prepared spell caster to leave a single spell slot open and suddenly fill it with any spell of that level or lower. the price we pay for this benifit is that the casting time changes to a full round action. wait what was that? casting the spell now takes up a full round action not casting the spell now takes a full round action or its original casting time whichever is greater? well thats interesting so it can lower the casting time of any spell down to one full round of casting. its not terribly broken that I can see but does open up a few interesting doors. heres a list of all the wizard and sorcerer spells from the SRD with a caster level greater then 1 full round. astral projection teleportation circle symbol of death clone create undead create greater undead screen sympathy symbol of insanity demand sending binding antipathy prying eyes prying eyes greater discern location planar binding greater planer binding lesser planar binding control weather symbol of weakness simulacrum symbol of stunning move earth symbol of fear symbol of persausion Geas legend lore guards and wards permanency fabricate symbol of pain nightmare dream symbol fo sleep contact other plane secret chest major creation minor creation mages private sanctum break enchantment mnemonic enhancer hallucinatory terrain scrying arcane eye secure shelter fire trap secret page illusory script clairaudience/clairvoyance sepia snake sigil phantom steed heres a list of all the spells from the spell compendium that have a casting time greater then a round. there are probably a few cleric druid and what not spells in the list but maybe you can find a way to make the feat work with them by using something like extra spell or something like that. abyssal army analize portal anarchic water anticipate teleportation anticipate teleportation greater anyspell anyspell greater arrow of bone awaken mass awaken construct bottle of smoke call kolyarut call marut call zelekhut circle dance cold snap contingent energy resistance create magic tattoo death pact dragon ally lesser dream casting energy transformation feild enhance wildshape eyes of the king eye of power fierce pride of the beastlands ghoul glyph hand of divinity hand of the faithful healthful rest heart of stone hellish horde heavenly host hide the path hind sight hunters of hades implacable persurer instant refuge lay of the land marked object natures rampart pavilion of grandeur probe thoughts programmed amnesia quick potion raise from the deep rejuvinate corpse renewal pact revive outsider revive undead safe clearing shadow landscape shifting paths sign of sealing greater spell engine **** stalwart pact submerge ship summon elysian thrush symbol of spell loss train animal true creation vile death weather eye zealot pact zone of respite
darkone7141981 11-25-06, 07:29 PM	Thanks for bringing that to our attention. How do you suggest anyone capitalize on this? Be sure to consider the other costs of the spells you found. If any of them have expensive components or experience costs they might not be worth it.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-25-06, 09:06 PM	This was pointed out in the CMag tricks & combos thread, but the spell compilation is handy. The best abuses of this fact come from things like: identify and genesis. Greatly speeds things up. Can you precipate a new plane of reality is 6 seconds flat? Well I can. Makes for some interesting calling abuse tricks as well. Instead of using summon monster, you can use planar binding 1/day in combat. Mix with a quickened dimensional anchor and you've got any outsider or elemental you want (provided it fails its will save and doesn't beat the Cha/SR check).
Taeldrin Laesrash 11-25-06, 09:16 PM	I just noticed that this is sort of like Link Power and its abuses. But that aside, I get a kick out using this with Energy Transformation Field and Summon Monster spells. It's great for amassing an army of meat shields, distractions, and actual fighters.
Vecna 11-25-06, 11:11 PM	If you can reduce the casting time to a standard action, you could apply Dweomerkeeper Supernatural Spell ability...
Endarire 11-26-06, 02:38 AM	Rapid Spell feat. -EE
Vikjunk 11-26-06, 03:14 AM	Rapid Spell feat. -EE That would only work for a Sorcerer or other arcane spontaneous spellcaster with Arcane Preparation and Rapid Metamagic since with Alacritous Cogitation need to be able to prepare to get the feat and to leave a spell slot unprepared to cast the spell with Alacritous Congitation. It would be a little too much of a focus for my tastes for just a once a day thing but admittedly if the right spell is chosen it could be killer.
deathwishjoe 11-26-06, 04:08 PM	the biggest thing this does is take one of your spells per day and makes it into a combat spell where it normally wouldnt be used in combat. one of my favorite spells is programmed amnesia with this. it goes from a noncombat spell to a free monstrous thrall spell with no XP or expensive materal compenent.
ChristopherGroves 11-26-06, 05:34 PM	There was something else a while back that did something similar, I forget what it was. Something that I think combined any spell w/ another action as part of a full-attack. Sure there are some loopholes it opened (call lightning, whatever) but nothing too major. I need to find the old thread.
balor64 11-26-06, 05:55 PM	There was something else a while back that did something similar, I forget what it was. Something that I think combined any spell w/ another action as part of a full-attack. Sure there are some loopholes it opened (call lightning, whatever) but nothing too major. I need to find the old thread. Daggerspell Mage?
ChristopherGroves 11-26-06, 06:08 PM	It might have been that. It *has* been a while.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-26-06, 07:20 PM	Something about two standards make a full-round action?
A_Wizard_for_Breakfast 11-27-06, 01:55 AM	This is similar to one of my favorite tricks with the Arcane Archer. The once a day bit limits its "overpoweredness" without setting up some sort of loop, but it does seem like it could come in very handy. Seems sort of like Quick Draw. If you don't have it, you'll never miss it. If you have it, it will have a way of making itself useful.
deathwishjoe 11-27-06, 03:52 PM	bump for new data. see main post
WombleHunter 11-27-06, 04:27 PM	Something about two standards make a full-round action? This? Start/Complete Full-Round Action The “start full-round action” standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
marrithl2 11-27-06, 05:07 PM	you are interpreting the rules wrong. you know what they meant to say and you know what the descriptions are supposed to say. You shouldn't go around looking for little loop-holes in people's writing. They write a lot of descriptions ranging from entire classes to feat descriptions. It is difficult for them to catch every little flaw in their game design. Apparently you have nothing better to do but wait for a little mistake like this so you can bend it and take full advantage. Maybe you should just write about it to the editors and they will fix it for us. I'm sure they'd appreciate it a lot. I remember the first time I started on these boards. Everyone told me that the people here were just a bunch of nerds using loop-holes and reading the rules the way they want to hear them so their characters could be gods. I've never seen that kind of thing on the boards up until now. It's kinda sad that not a single person points out that this is clearly a case of the player casting a blind eye over the true meaning of the rules.
deathwishjoe 11-27-06, 05:35 PM	you are interpreting the rules wrong. you know what they meant to say and you know what the descriptions are supposed to say. Im interpreting the rules in the way they were written. its called RAW around here, and RAW is law. the reason for this is that in many cases RAI (or rules as intended) requires a bonified telepath to determine. I do agree that the exploit I posted above (both of them actually) were probably not intended by the original writer of the feat. Now, no where am I suggesting one abuse this feat in a standard game. thats not the point. the point is that if one were working on say a wierd competition with player VS player and a DM who only wanted to make sure that the characters played according to the rules and didnt cheat or if one were to make a theoretical build that could use this feat to become more powerful then this mechanic is made known for all to use. It is difficult for them to catch every little flaw in their game design. yes and there have been many people from these boards who have publically offered to go through and find such problems and help rewrite them just to be able to see what new books might be comign out before they are released. unfortunatly wizards hasnt chosen to take up the offers as far as I know. in fact there has been a dry spell in new errata for the last few months. I remember the first time I started on these boards. Everyone told me that the people here were just a bunch of nerds using loop-holes and reading the rules the way they want to hear them so their characters could be gods no one here plays pun pun and most people would probably shiv in the back any player at there table who tried to. no one plays with these characters and most competitions on these boards try very hard to limit most of the worst abuse. finding new things to abuse in a new way can win many competitions. Apparently you have nothing better to do but wait for a little mistake like this so you can bend it and take full advantage. while i dont like your rather insulting tone, I have to say that yes, its like crack, finding something new to abuse like this. will I use it with my weekly playing group? no. I might mention it to show it off but I wouldnt use it. would I use an ability like this in a challenege between to people who want to know who can make the better character? yeah I might! there are two builds from two different challeneges on these boards that would do quite well with this feat. they ended before the book in which the feat came out but this feat would still boost the power of the builds considerably.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-27-06, 06:28 PM	This? Yeah, that's the one. That rule enabled the end of an era... the era of not being able to preform an infinite number of arbitrarily long actions in a finite amount of time. But now we can! Hurray. :bored:
deathwishjoe 11-28-06, 02:21 PM	bump for great justice and further review of my metamagic trickery
Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer 11-28-06, 02:30 PM	When I'm done with finals I may take a further look at some of the spells. However, that won't happen for another week. :weep:
ChristopherGroves 11-28-06, 05:44 PM	So, we should remember that this trick can be pulled off also w/ Arcane Archer and Daggerspell Mage right ... some spells may be better than others for those formats. Too bad "submerge ship" isn't "sink the mother" ... that'd be funny.