Alchemist Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alchemist Help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tweedledope
10-15-05, 02:41 PM Okay, I want to make an Alchemist and I think I have a pretty sick build.

Gnome Wizard 5/Alchemist Savant 5/Master Alchemist 10

Gnome is for flavor (human would work too) but the combo of classes would allow me to put any spell (up to 9th level) into a potion form. It would also let me put any spell that has a targeted effect into a spell and use it as a weapon (or sell them or hand them off to my buddies).

So, what does everyone think of this? It seems like a really effective build.

-=TD=-

Alchemist Savant - Magic of Eberron
Master Alchemist - Magic of Faerun

Yeah, I know that they're contradicting campaigns but, my DM allows both to work together and the Master Alchemist has no real ties to Faerun.
EvilVegan
10-15-05, 03:06 PM I haven't read alchemist savant, but this would be a fantastically amusing partner to artificer 20 gestaltness. . .
Tweedledope
10-16-05, 06:58 PM Wow, no one has any comments? I just discovered a way to bottle up any spell and use it as a thrown weapon...crazy.

But, if someone does see this, some advice would be handy. Like, for instance, good feats to take.

BTW, it doesn't really work out to well with Artificer (which is how I was going to go first) because the Artificer's list only goes up to 6th level "spells" (I can't remember what they call them).

However, it works very well with the build that I presented thanks to WizSor 9th level spells.

-=TD=-
X-Codes
10-16-05, 07:11 PM Actually, Artificier doesn't work because Master Alchemist requires 4th level casting; infusions don't count for it. What Vegan was saying was that this would be pretty cool in a gestalt build.

As for feats to take, the pre-reqs for Master Alchemist are going to take up almost all your starting feats. I don't know what the Pre-reqs for Alchemist Savant are, but I can imagine that it would take at least 1 feat that Master Alchemist doesn't. Other than the feats required, however, I really can't think of anything else you would want to pick up. Maybe Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Bind Elemental, but that would just turn you into a quasi-ficier with a potion specialty.

If you can, drop Wizard for Archivist. Archivist has much better spells for classic potion-making on it's own and can obtain some of the best spells for "potion-hurling" through it's extensive spell list. Considering that you are playing with all supplements allowed, it could quite possibly get very insane.
Brastan
10-16-05, 07:39 PM The problem is you don't see many people who do CO work and have both Eberron and FR content on hand. I see you are using the Adaptation version of the class that uses something like Skill Focus(Craft{alchemy}) instead of the Favored in House.

The Alchemist Savant is very fun I have to say and the ability to make Universal Potions is a cool idea. I don't know about Master Alchemist since I don't have MoF. Since you seem to have MoE does the Master Alchemist qualify as an Artificer PrC?[Is that Arcane, Divine or just spell-level?] In case people are looking for alternate builds.

It can't store any spell, unless there's something in Master Alchemist I don't know, from what I know you can only place 3rd level spells and lower in the Savants abilities.

Still drawing from MoE if your interested in thrown weapons then a Packmate homunculus would be a good companion for Artificer Alchemist. Improved with Power Throw and Improved Homunculus feats it could become an effective grenade launcher for your alchemy rounds. This would be good with a pure Gestalt Artificer 20 on the other side as already suggested.

[Edit] New rulering from MoE allows some PrCs to count for the Artificer if the prestige classes has spellcasting level requirements. Just as long as it's not specifically Arcane or Divine. Examples are Acolyte of the Skin and Ollam.[Edit]
Aramas
10-16-05, 07:54 PM It can't store any spell, unless there's something in Master Alchemist I don't know, from what I know you can only place 3rd level spells and lower in the Savants abilities.

The Master Alchemist allows you to store up to 9th level spells in potions at level 10. It also allows you to brew more than one potion in a day.
Tweedledope
10-16-05, 08:08 PM Well, Artificer can't qualify for the Master Alchemist because it requires the ability to either cast 4th level Arcane or Divine spells.

Also, I have a slight rules question here. If I apply exceptional artisan (I think that's the one that reduces time by 25%) how does that effect a potion maker? For instance, a potion takes 1 day to complete...if I take the feat from Eberron that reduces crafting time does it take 24*.75 hours to complete? I'm confused on the ruling for this.

Also, the same question goes for the Master Alchemist who can Brew Potion up to three per day (instead of the normal 1)

-=TD=-
X-Codes
10-16-05, 09:02 PM Brewing a potion requires 8 hours of actual work in a day and 16 hours of rest and/or sleep to recover from the strain of magic item crafting. Master Alchemist's ability allows you to make three potions per day in the normal amount of time it would take to make one. As far as I know, there is no feat that reduces time required to make items, only a feat that reduces the amount of gold required to make said items. If this feat is in Magic of Eberron then it would not have any meaningful impact on potion making since the time required to make a magic item is always rounded up to the next full day. Master Alchemist's ability to craft multiple potions a day is the only way I know of to quicken potion brewing time.
Llochlyn
10-16-05, 09:09 PM You might want to take "craft constructs" to get a Dedicated Wright Homonculus (Eberron Campaign Setting) to have even more time off while he crafts potions for you
catharz
10-16-05, 09:16 PM [Edit] New rulering from MoE allows some PrCs to count for the Artificer if the prestige classes has spellcasting level requirements. Just as long as it's not specifically Arcane or Divine. Examples are Acolyte of the Skin and Ollam.[Edit]

:shocked:

:w00t:

Thank you for that bit of info!
Tweedledope
10-16-05, 09:36 PM Brewing a potion requires 8 hours of actual work in a day and 16 hours of rest and/or sleep to recover from the strain of magic item crafting. Master Alchemist's ability allows you to make three potions per day in the normal amount of time it would take to make one. As far as I know, there is no feat that reduces time required to make items, only a feat that reduces the amount of gold required to make said items. If this feat is in Magic of Eberron then it would not have any meaningful impact on potion making since the time required to make a magic item is always rounded up to the next full day. Master Alchemist's ability to craft multiple potions a day is the only way I know of to quicken potion brewing time.
The feat I'm referring to is Exceptional Artisan from the Eberron campagin setting. It is on page 52 and it allows a person to craft an item faster (You reduce the base time by 25%).
dog45
10-16-05, 10:39 PM Master Alchemist is...interesting, I suppose. I see it more as an NPC class. I don't know what the Alchemist Savant does, but you can effectively replicate the Master Alchemists '9th level spell into potion form' class ability with the Attune Gem feat. (from MoF)

An Attuned Gem will cost slightly more to create than a potion, because the gem is a separate material component itself (gem worth 50 x spell level).

But you can set triggers for when the spell goes off, and there is no written limit on the highest level spell you can put in a gem.

Plus, it looks cooler having a mage casting spells into magic gems than some old geezer (the picture for MA) throwing potions at people.
Tweedledope
10-16-05, 11:40 PM Oh, btw, my DM has allowed me to create a new feat called Chug...this is what it does:

Chug
You are adept at popping a potion and chugging it down swiftly
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 8 Ranks, Brew Potion
Benefits: Drinking a potion doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity from your enemies.

There...that's an important feat in my build obviously and...what my DM doesn't realize is that it could be abused. Hehehe.
Tweedledope
10-17-05, 11:38 AM :bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tweedledope 10-15-05, 02:41 PM	Okay, I want to make an Alchemist and I think I have a pretty sick build. Gnome Wizard 5/Alchemist Savant 5/Master Alchemist 10 Gnome is for flavor (human would work too) but the combo of classes would allow me to put any spell (up to 9th level) into a potion form. It would also let me put any spell that has a targeted effect into a spell and use it as a weapon (or sell them or hand them off to my buddies). So, what does everyone think of this? It seems like a really effective build. -=TD=- Alchemist Savant - Magic of Eberron Master Alchemist - Magic of Faerun Yeah, I know that they're contradicting campaigns but, my DM allows both to work together and the Master Alchemist has no real ties to Faerun.
EvilVegan 10-15-05, 03:06 PM	I haven't read alchemist savant, but this would be a fantastically amusing partner to artificer 20 gestaltness. . .
Tweedledope 10-16-05, 06:58 PM	Wow, no one has any comments? I just discovered a way to bottle up any spell and use it as a thrown weapon...crazy. But, if someone does see this, some advice would be handy. Like, for instance, good feats to take. BTW, it doesn't really work out to well with Artificer (which is how I was going to go first) because the Artificer's list only goes up to 6th level "spells" (I can't remember what they call them). However, it works very well with the build that I presented thanks to WizSor 9th level spells. -=TD=-
X-Codes 10-16-05, 07:11 PM	Actually, Artificier doesn't work because Master Alchemist requires 4th level casting; infusions don't count for it. What Vegan was saying was that this would be pretty cool in a gestalt build. As for feats to take, the pre-reqs for Master Alchemist are going to take up almost all your starting feats. I don't know what the Pre-reqs for Alchemist Savant are, but I can imagine that it would take at least 1 feat that Master Alchemist doesn't. Other than the feats required, however, I really can't think of anything else you would want to pick up. Maybe Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Bind Elemental, but that would just turn you into a quasi-ficier with a potion specialty. If you can, drop Wizard for Archivist. Archivist has much better spells for classic potion-making on it's own and can obtain some of the best spells for "potion-hurling" through it's extensive spell list. Considering that you are playing with all supplements allowed, it could quite possibly get very insane.
Brastan 10-16-05, 07:39 PM	The problem is you don't see many people who do CO work and have both Eberron and FR content on hand. I see you are using the Adaptation version of the class that uses something like Skill Focus(Craft{alchemy}) instead of the Favored in House. The Alchemist Savant is very fun I have to say and the ability to make Universal Potions is a cool idea. I don't know about Master Alchemist since I don't have MoF. Since you seem to have MoE does the Master Alchemist qualify as an Artificer PrC?[Is that Arcane, Divine or just spell-level?] In case people are looking for alternate builds. It can't store any spell, unless there's something in Master Alchemist I don't know, from what I know you can only place 3rd level spells and lower in the Savants abilities. Still drawing from MoE if your interested in thrown weapons then a Packmate homunculus would be a good companion for Artificer Alchemist. Improved with Power Throw and Improved Homunculus feats it could become an effective grenade launcher for your alchemy rounds. This would be good with a pure Gestalt Artificer 20 on the other side as already suggested. [Edit] New rulering from MoE allows some PrCs to count for the Artificer if the prestige classes has spellcasting level requirements. Just as long as it's not specifically Arcane or Divine. Examples are Acolyte of the Skin and Ollam.[Edit]
Aramas 10-16-05, 07:54 PM	It can't store any spell, unless there's something in Master Alchemist I don't know, from what I know you can only place 3rd level spells and lower in the Savants abilities. The Master Alchemist allows you to store up to 9th level spells in potions at level 10. It also allows you to brew more than one potion in a day.
Tweedledope 10-16-05, 08:08 PM	Well, Artificer can't qualify for the Master Alchemist because it requires the ability to either cast 4th level Arcane or Divine spells. Also, I have a slight rules question here. If I apply exceptional artisan (I think that's the one that reduces time by 25%) how does that effect a potion maker? For instance, a potion takes 1 day to complete...if I take the feat from Eberron that reduces crafting time does it take 24*.75 hours to complete? I'm confused on the ruling for this. Also, the same question goes for the Master Alchemist who can Brew Potion up to three per day (instead of the normal 1) -=TD=-
X-Codes 10-16-05, 09:02 PM	Brewing a potion requires 8 hours of actual work in a day and 16 hours of rest and/or sleep to recover from the strain of magic item crafting. Master Alchemist's ability allows you to make three potions per day in the normal amount of time it would take to make one. As far as I know, there is no feat that reduces time required to make items, only a feat that reduces the amount of gold required to make said items. If this feat is in Magic of Eberron then it would not have any meaningful impact on potion making since the time required to make a magic item is always rounded up to the next full day. Master Alchemist's ability to craft multiple potions a day is the only way I know of to quicken potion brewing time.
Llochlyn 10-16-05, 09:09 PM	You might want to take "craft constructs" to get a Dedicated Wright Homonculus (Eberron Campaign Setting) to have even more time off while he crafts potions for you
catharz 10-16-05, 09:16 PM	[Edit] New rulering from MoE allows some PrCs to count for the Artificer if the prestige classes has spellcasting level requirements. Just as long as it's not specifically Arcane or Divine. Examples are Acolyte of the Skin and Ollam.[Edit] :shocked: :w00t: Thank you for that bit of info!
Tweedledope 10-16-05, 09:36 PM	Brewing a potion requires 8 hours of actual work in a day and 16 hours of rest and/or sleep to recover from the strain of magic item crafting. Master Alchemist's ability allows you to make three potions per day in the normal amount of time it would take to make one. As far as I know, there is no feat that reduces time required to make items, only a feat that reduces the amount of gold required to make said items. If this feat is in Magic of Eberron then it would not have any meaningful impact on potion making since the time required to make a magic item is always rounded up to the next full day. Master Alchemist's ability to craft multiple potions a day is the only way I know of to quicken potion brewing time. The feat I'm referring to is Exceptional Artisan from the Eberron campagin setting. It is on page 52 and it allows a person to craft an item faster (You reduce the base time by 25%).
dog45 10-16-05, 10:39 PM	Master Alchemist is...interesting, I suppose. I see it more as an NPC class. I don't know what the Alchemist Savant does, but you can effectively replicate the Master Alchemists '9th level spell into potion form' class ability with the Attune Gem feat. (from MoF) An Attuned Gem will cost slightly more to create than a potion, because the gem is a separate material component itself (gem worth 50 x spell level). But you can set triggers for when the spell goes off, and there is no written limit on the highest level spell you can put in a gem. Plus, it looks cooler having a mage casting spells into magic gems than some old geezer (the picture for MA) throwing potions at people.
Tweedledope 10-16-05, 11:40 PM	Oh, btw, my DM has allowed me to create a new feat called Chug...this is what it does: Chug You are adept at popping a potion and chugging it down swiftly Prerequisites: Spellcraft 8 Ranks, Brew Potion Benefits: Drinking a potion doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity from your enemies. There...that's an important feat in my build obviously and...what my DM doesn't realize is that it could be abused. Hehehe.
Tweedledope 10-17-05, 11:38 AM	:bump: